BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: UK
For what it's worth, when I joined my first commercial outfit (and this wasn't that many moons ago!), we were bonded for £15k, payable up front before commencing the type rating, albeit paid back in 36 monthly instalments...
The starting salary at that outfit plus the bond I paid was still significantly less (I'm talking greater than £10k) than the starting salary these new pilots would earn in their first year at BA.
Just my "two cents", but I don't see the problem with the £18k up front given the starting salary. A very controversial viewpoint I'm sure but sadly its the nature of the industry. I can't think of many another professions out there that requires you to pay up front to get the job.
The starting salary at that outfit plus the bond I paid was still significantly less (I'm talking greater than £10k) than the starting salary these new pilots would earn in their first year at BA.
Just my "two cents", but I don't see the problem with the £18k up front given the starting salary. A very controversial viewpoint I'm sure but sadly its the nature of the industry. I can't think of many another professions out there that requires you to pay up front to get the job.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
Worth pointing out the starting salary for those paying for TR is significantly less (about £20k less) than experienced DEP starting salary. There’s simply no justification for this. IAG get a reduced flight ops budget and pilots take it up the tailpipe while shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.
Last edited by The Mixmaster; 10th March 2019 at 13:50.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BA works purely on market forces. They don’t care about employee morale or particularly much about what BALPA thinks either. In the last financial year for the company, they have closed the FSS pension and have announced an additional dividend to the shareholders which is pretty much identical to the sum of money saved by the closure. They have no problem at all with taking money from anyone who will let them, and giving it to their shareholders. Current pilots collectively allowed the company to raid their pensions and close bidline for JSS, and new joiners will allow the company to take £18k from them. When they’ve been doing that for a while, I expect internal pilots will have to pay for aspirational type courses. And so it will continue until individuals stop applying and start leaving in excessive numbers. Until that day, we’ll have more and more of our money redirected to the shareholders. They take as much as they can get away with from the customer, and they take as much as they can get away with from the employee. It is that simple.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
GS-ALPHA. Spot on.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: UK
It didn't work at all; why? Because they were prepared to pay it. The point is if people don't pay it the scheme won't exist. The obvious issue is people are always prepared to pay it so until they dry up the scheme will remain.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: England
I will be doing the sim assessment fairly soon. Applied under one of the DEP FO ZFT campaigns last year, there has never been a mention of having to fund a TR. Is this only going to be applicable to the new CPL/IR campaign??
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Timba Hold
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: UK
Me being one of them.
6k+ in various large aeroplanes, plus other vaguely exotic stuff and previously worked in similar cultures. Did stages 1-3 last time around before accepting something else. Applied recently again on a whim but the thought of going through the hassle of 3x trips to LHR at considerable expense to do the same rubbish I previously managed, alongside the clusterf*ck of equal opportunies BA HR, made me realise I just couldn’t. Not for a c.£55k basic and mediocre pension to (likely) sit RHS in a 320 out of LHR working every weekend until the kids have left school, sat next to a 26 year old #BAsmart. Frankly the thought was akin to being repeatedly stabbed in the knackers with a blunt pair of scissors. (N.b I do appreciate most at BA are decent guys and gals).
Shame, once upon a time I’d have sold my Gran to work for BA.
That grumble aside though, in my opinion it is the best designed recruitment process out there. If you get through it you obviously meet their standards and you really, really want to work for BA. I’m evidently not that person. The process seemingly works well... Fair enough!
6k+ in various large aeroplanes, plus other vaguely exotic stuff and previously worked in similar cultures. Did stages 1-3 last time around before accepting something else. Applied recently again on a whim but the thought of going through the hassle of 3x trips to LHR at considerable expense to do the same rubbish I previously managed, alongside the clusterf*ck of equal opportunies BA HR, made me realise I just couldn’t. Not for a c.£55k basic and mediocre pension to (likely) sit RHS in a 320 out of LHR working every weekend until the kids have left school, sat next to a 26 year old #BAsmart. Frankly the thought was akin to being repeatedly stabbed in the knackers with a blunt pair of scissors. (N.b I do appreciate most at BA are decent guys and gals).
Shame, once upon a time I’d have sold my Gran to work for BA.
That grumble aside though, in my opinion it is the best designed recruitment process out there. If you get through it you obviously meet their standards and you really, really want to work for BA. I’m evidently not that person. The process seemingly works well... Fair enough!
Last edited by FRYVA; 15th March 2019 at 19:23.
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Approaching TOMBI
Hi everyone. Managed to work my way through the last two years of this thread and got a lot of answers but if someone could help me out with just a couple of questions I would be very grateful. I have focused on LH questions as this is all I would be prepared to accept even if that meant not joining at all. Please don't view this as arrogant but as I am sort of happy where I am, it is a case of only taking what would work for me.
Pay:
General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
If anyone could take a stab at answering any or all of these, it would be absolutely invaluable so thank you in advance.
Pay:
- Do the newer pay scales still make it a financially viable move to join BA in your mid 20s with the view to remain on a LH fleet?
- What would a 10-15 year LH FO be expecting to make?
- Do people literally set up shop in London for 21 days of reserve?
- Any hope of getting home between trips while on reserve if on LH?
- Given the apparent crack down, are commuters still finding they can commute and still maintain a sustainable lifestyle?
- Is there a minimum number of days off between trips?
- In terms of practicality, can staff travel be used for commuting?
- Is it still possible to swap duties to get some sort of favourable roster?
- As a commuter would you stand any chance of binning your standbys for a flying duty to save a possible wasted trip?
General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
- Any junior guys who are happy? Commuters in particular?
- Are trips a sense length?
- Do BA have a sensible approach to 3 and 4 person crews on long sectors to at least mitigate some fatigue?
- Is the cockpit gradient reflective of the relatively high experience levels of FO's whether that be those just joining the company or those who have been in the company 15-20 years? Will be given a decent amount of responsibility for your sector and do people find that enough to make up for a long time to command?
- Is the general level of moral as low as it seems on here? Do BALPA run a survey or anything that would provide some numbers on how the workforce is feeling?
- Is the staff travel still as good as it was? Could I plan a holiday months in advance and still get some benefit (Cheaper or premium cabin)?
- Good package for Loss Of License and Income Protection?
If anyone could take a stab at answering any or all of these, it would be absolutely invaluable so thank you in advance.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Holland
I’ve always found the BA recruitment process a little bit strange tbh. Very set in their ways, I feel there is no scope for example saying “well he didn’t have the best interview, but he seems like a nice guy so lets see how he gets on in the sim”.
I remember running into a guy who was once in the holding pool for them, ended up drowning. Applied again and didn’t get through the interview, seems to make little sense to me.
That said, my initial airline had an incredibly long winded recruitment process and I saw loads of good guys get canned during that process also. I think like most things, if comes down to how you feel on that particular day and a large degree of luck of the draw in relation to interviewers and sim checkers etc.
I remember running into a guy who was once in the holding pool for them, ended up drowning. Applied again and didn’t get through the interview, seems to make little sense to me.
That said, my initial airline had an incredibly long winded recruitment process and I saw loads of good guys get canned during that process also. I think like most things, if comes down to how you feel on that particular day and a large degree of luck of the draw in relation to interviewers and sim checkers etc.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: uk
can I ask where you get this info from? I can only see a total of 7 people leaving this month of which 3 are retirees.