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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 6th Feb 2019, 20:00
  #5881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Longer. I flew with a Gatwick captain who’d been in 13 years and he still hadn’t got to 50% on the P77L status list by relative seniority.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 21:54
  #5882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 779
However, at c80% and full time on the P777 list I am getting pretty much what I want out of JSS. Those joining the fleet above me tend to replace those leaving to commands or other fleets, and the recruitment rate is such that I am still edging up the list. You don’t need to be 50% on the list to have a pleasant lifestyle by any means. The list is also skewed as the top third are waiting for a long haul command rather than returning to the Airbus.

Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 23:27
  #5883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 23:56
  #5884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by VinceR View Post
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
On the 320, none (without leave). You need to be in the top two thirds before weekends start appearing with any kind of regularity.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:01
  #5885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 21
Ignoring, of course, those lower than that who actually have 1, 2 or 3 weekends off...
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:15
  #5886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:19
  #5887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
Absolutely EVERYTHING listed here happened last year on Short Haul at this very airline (apart from six sector days of course but having done them myself at Flybe I’d take them in a heartbeat over a St Petersburg link).
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:19
  #5888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
So because BA is slightly less sh*t the gripes are less valid? You lost us all when you started comparing BA to a regional UK carrier. Compare KLM/Lufthansa/Air France work life balance and pay on their SH fleets with BA’s and then get back to us.

Last edited by The Mixmaster; 7th Feb 2019 at 18:56.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:27
  #5889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 60
Been at 3 Brit airlines based in the London area over the last decade. I've had the majority of my weekends off. A rostering system with only a 50% bias towards seniority with the remaining 50% of the roster being randomly assigned sounds like a better solution, if it can be implemented. I can hear the excuses already!
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 17:46
  #5890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
BA isn't a regional airline in the UK? Struggle to see your point. Why don't you compare it something remotely similar?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 19:55
  #5891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 779
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.

This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:05
  #5892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.

This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
wait till the senior boys learn to bid (and cap+4 in summer!)

Last edited by MikeAlpha320; 7th Feb 2019 at 20:06. Reason: add
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:57
  #5893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
BA isn't a regional airline in the UK? Struggle to see your point. Why don't you compare it something remotely similar?
The comparison isn't between a regional carrier and BA, its the fact that several people on this thread complain about certain perks but don't realise how good it is on their side of the grass. Some airlines in the UK have pulled crew food, for example. Having read this thread long enough, it just sounds that some have come from a gifted background and haven't "cut their teeth" like some others.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 21:46
  #5894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
VOR.DME with respect, I think you should leave it there. Yes there are many people here who don’t know anything different but I’m BA, I’ve spent time at Flybe doing six sector days and a lot of the things you are grumbling about and I’ve also worked at Wizz Air. Unless you have experienced pay, CRM, attitudes and intimidation from management and the brutal rostering at Wizz you have no idea how far the bottom of the barrel actually goes. So yes there are worse places, but that’s not to say the grumbles highlighted here aren’t justified, some of them very much are. Does a man who lost his legs on 7/7 not have the right to complain because others died? Extreme example but there’s always someone worse off, we shouldn’t be using that justify an untenable position and a degradation in conditions.

Last edited by RexBanner; 7th Feb 2019 at 21:58.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 08:49
  #5895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 44
....and seemingly you’d be surprised at just how many BA pilots have ‘cut their teeth’ elsewhere. Most likely the majority of the pilot workforce.

With respect, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Last edited by DuctOvht; 14th Feb 2019 at 08:32.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:09
  #5896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 926
I’ve instructed 3,500hrs in Cessnas and Pipers, flown air taxi and air survey in Aztecs, Senecas, Doves and Navajos, did a three year stint on exec jets and then ten years on 737 Charter ops before joining BA.

So, I reckon I’ve cut my teeth.

Now I fly a lovely new BA 787 from the LHS and I do feel very privileged and lucky.

BA is still great compared to most other UK pilot jobs, but could be so much better for comparatively little extra investment and things have definitely gone downhill in the twenty years that I’ve been here.

I don’t have a lot to complain about but I would support others in BA who do.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:54
  #5897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Back in my box I go then!
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 15:41
  #5898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,384
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
Back in my box I go then!
If you are, don’t take it personally..there are still many out there who think that absolutely everybody at BA is a Nigel who went to finishing school and then joined BA via Hamble or some sort of cadet scheme.

The reality these days is most of the current BA line pilots have indeed “cut their teeth” in variety of flying jobs with all sorts of operators and organisations prior to joining the company as a DEP in their thirties, forties or even a bit older...

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Old 9th Feb 2019, 11:05
  #5899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 926
Hi VOR.DME,

No offence taken and none intended!

As Wiggy said, most of the guys and gals that I fly with are ex military and/or DEPs from other airlines. Makes for an interesting mix of people (but all fitting the BA selection profile, whatever that is).

On the odd occasion that I come across a Cadet, sponsored or self-funded, who joined BA straight out of Oxford or wherever, I can’t help feeling a little sorry for them for missing the variety of experience that I enjoyed. OTOH, if one of my kids had that opportunity, I wouldn’t try to talk them out of it.

I had a good position and base in the 737 Charter world and it was a tough decision to join BA at the age of 42. I’m glad I did but I wouldn’t presume to advise others to do the same as it’s now a different time and situation. In any case, it’s not a one-way street as some have recently shown by going back to whence they came. Good luck to all.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 20:46
  #5900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kernow
Posts: 19
Has anybody who applied in the latest window (ended on the 31st) heard anything back re: their application?
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