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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 5th Feb 2019, 20:53
  #5881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding View Post




Surely there is only one standard in your initial selection sim. And that would be the BA standard. How do they assess you are suitable for long haul in your selection sim? Sounds like nonsense.
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 21:47
  #5882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 99
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by clvf88 View Post
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
So, what criteria is used in the sim to determine if someone is suitable for LH or not?

You will require an unfrozen ATPL and Im guessing 2,000 hours anyway.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 22:06
  #5883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 767
The short answer is are you likely to get through to the line in absolute minimum time, given that the course is compressed to the absolute legal minimum and your 7th landing on type will be during your final check.

Training capacity is is bursting at the seams, and BA have some very unusual ways of doing things that take time to get used to if you come from somewhere more sensible.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 09:30
  #5884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 33
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective.
Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 09:44
  #5885 (permalink)  
AFA
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Phantom4 View Post
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective.
Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck.
Does this not lead to the slightly odd situation of current LH pilots being offered SH & all the super current young SH pilots being offered LH slots?
After 18yrs of one or two landings a month on long haul its safe to say my pure handling skills were better when I was 19 flying Highlands & Islands in an ATP - so Id now be sent SH A320 to improve I guess!!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 10:45
  #5886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by clvf88 View Post
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
Long Haul will slowly over the years degrade your skills due to the fact you perform about 1/5th of the sectors you do on Short Haul. Short Haul is a proving ground, where the less experienced get 5 times more exposure to operational decision making, crosswinds, marginal weather (etc the list is long)
The likelihood is once you get put into a LH fleet at BA, you will probably never leave. It is therefore important that LH takes the most experienced DEP's for the wide bodies. So essentially recruitment are saying to anyone who is offered short haul only "You have all the skills but lack the experience" or "You have the experience but the skills need some work"

It's up to the applicant to choose which assessment was made!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 10:47
  #5887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: europe
Posts: 5
Anyone know what the current wait time is for people in the hold pool?
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:16
  #5888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,902
Originally Posted by wing man View Post
Anyone know what the current wait time is for people in the hold pool?
its a a very thin puddle
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 14:34
  #5889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds View Post
You could literally be offered anything but wouldnt expect BA to start you on something and then switch you to the 320 on day one. As I said, never say never.
Merely for illustration, two chaps whom I know well, both with plenty of 4-jet command time, were offered 777 and 747. Then, during their first week with BA, whilst doing induction and generic SEP training, they were suddenly switched to the 767 and A320 respectively! So yes, it does happen.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:26
  #5890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gran Bretaa
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
Not certain that is correct. BA have recruited around 250 new hires every year for some time now. There have also been cadet schemes, on and off, as well.
The combination of expansion against retirements, resignations and medical failures has driven a steady flow - gross employment increasing from 3500 heads 5 years ago to around 4100 today.
I started almost exactly 4 years ago. Looking at the seniority numbers of folk doing conversion courses this month, there have been almost 1000 new starts in that time period, so you're bang on the money!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:52
  #5891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gran Bretaa
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by A340Yumyum View Post


Have you been to see a Dr recently?
;-)
If you think about it, SH LGW is not a bad decision as a new start, depending on where you live and what your priorities are. Mostly day trips, so pretty decent if you live nearby. Relative seniority isn't going to matter so much, and whichever Heathrow fleet you'd be on as a DEP, you'll not be getting weekends off anyway with JSS. No more cushy blind lines at Heathrow.

Anyone joining as a LH DEP is going to be super junior for a very, very long time, unless of course they bid for right seat short haul after a few years! Whether you're towards the bottom of 700 FOs on the 777 or on a small fleet like the 380 (which arguably, though, only has good trips), you're going to stagnate in that position every time a short haul FO with more seniority joins your fleet and leapfrogs you.

How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 19:00
  #5892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
Longer. I flew with a Gatwick captain whod been in 13 years and he still hadnt got to 50% on the P77L status list by relative seniority.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 20:54
  #5893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 767
However, at c80% and full time on the P777 list I am getting pretty much what I want out of JSS. Those joining the fleet above me tend to replace those leaving to commands or other fleets, and the recruitment rate is such that I am still edging up the list. You don’t need to be 50% on the list to have a pleasant lifestyle by any means. The list is also skewed as the top third are waiting for a long haul command rather than returning to the Airbus.

Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:27
  #5894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Being junior on a large fleet like the 777 is pretty reasonable as there is a lot of varied work to go around, and as long as you don’t want to go to CPT/PUJ and the like pretty much everything else filters all the way down.
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:56
  #5895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by VinceR View Post
With 80%, how many weekends off can you expect to get every month ?
On the 320, none (without leave). You need to be in the top two thirds before weekends start appearing with any kind of regularity.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:01
  #5896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9
Ignoring, of course, those lower than that who actually have 1, 2 or 3 weekends off...
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 13:15
  #5897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 13:19
  #5898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...
Absolutely EVERYTHING listed here happened last year on Short Haul at this very airline (apart from six sector days of course but having done them myself at Flybe I’d take them in a heartbeat over a St Petersburg link).
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:19
  #5899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
So because BA is slightly less sh*t the gripes are less valid? You lost us all when you started comparing BA to a regional UK carrier. Compare KLM/Lufthansa/Air France work life balance and pay on their SH fleets with BAs and then get back to us.

Last edited by The Mixmaster; 7th Feb 2019 at 17:56.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:27
  #5900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 45
Been at 3 Brit airlines based in the London area over the last decade. I've had the majority of my weekends off. A rostering system with only a 50% bias towards seniority with the remaining 50% of the roster being randomly assigned sounds like a better solution, if it can be implemented. I can hear the excuses already!
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