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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 17th Jan 2019, 07:33
  #5701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 9
Posts: 434
You can blame BALPA for the huge decline in T&C's here but we are the only ones to blame from what I've seen in a short period of time IMHO. Its look after number 1- the division amongst us as a work force is genuinely quite depressing at times.
Apologise for posting in advance. I don’t and never have worked for BA, but have daily read this thread for the last few years.

Divide and conquer, I’m alright jack. If it does not effect me, I’ll ignore it. BA and easyJet management must be loving reading this thread. I used to work for Shell Aviation at Manchester Airport as a refueller. Many many years ago, the money earning potential for those guys was unreal. Then they offered the Shell guys a mega pay rise as long as they allowed a new rate in for new joiners, like a 2-3 tier pay scale. When the new joiners outnumbered the Shell guys, the Shell guys were made redundant and the work was contracted out to ASIG. Yes you now see them all over LHR and LGW.

BALPA is only as strong as its members. It all depends on how many I’m alright Jacks you have for anything to change or the number of staff leaving outstrips the number arriving and required. Why you would want to leave easyJet to go to BA I often wonder. You even have several pay scales for your cabin crew, again I’m alright Jack. Divide and conquer.

I once jump seated a flight many years ago before I gained my license. It was with Britannia and was just before they starting painting their aircraft a lighter shade of blue thomson.co.uk. I asked the Captain was he sad to lose the old name and colour scheme. His reply was he did not give a [email protected] as longer as his terms and conditions don’t change. I’ll never forget it. Is flying for BA really any better than flying for easyJet in terms of pay, terms and conditions and base options. I even hear BA staff leaving to return to Jet2.

MikeAlpha320 is the best post I’ve read on here for ages and hits the nail on the head.

Good luck to all at BA. About time you backed BALPA and grew some.


Black Pudding is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:13
  #5702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by Black Pudding View Post


Apologise for posting in advance. I don’t and never have worked for BA, but have daily read this thread for the last few years.

Divide and conquer, I’m alright jack. If it does not effect me, I’ll ignore it. BA and easyJet management must be loving reading this thread. I used to work for Shell Aviation at Manchester Airport as a refueller. Many many years ago, the money earning potential for those guys was unreal. Then they offered the Shell guys a mega pay rise as long as they allowed a new rate in for new joiners, like a 2-3 tier pay scale. When the new joiners outnumbered the Shell guys, the Shell guys were made redundant and the work was contracted out to ASIG. Yes you now see them all over LHR and LGW.

BALPA is only as strong as its members. It all depends on how many I’m alright Jacks you have for anything to change or the number of staff leaving outstrips the number arriving and required. Why you would want to leave easyJet to go to BA I often wonder. You even have several pay scales for your cabin crew, again I’m alright Jack. Divide and conquer.

I once jump seated a flight many years ago before I gained my license. It was with Britannia and was just before they starting painting their aircraft a lighter shade of blue thomson.co.uk. I asked the Captain was he sad to lose the old name and colour scheme. His reply was he did not give a [email protected] as longer as his terms and conditions don’t change. I’ll never forget it. Is flying for BA really any better than flying for easyJet in terms of pay, terms and conditions and base options. I even hear BA staff leaving to return to Jet2.

MikeAlpha320 is the best post I’ve read on here for ages and hits the nail on the head.

Good luck to all at BA. About time you backed BALPA and grew some.

I don’t know about people going back to Jet2 but at least three Airbus skippers left last year to go to Jet2. I suspect where they live played a part in the decision but at least one hated the prevailing atmosphere.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #5703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,861
As an important aside BA has finally started to publish advice to employees re BREXIT and it may have consequences for some planning on joining BA and “commuting”...

BA are now telling EU27 nationals (other than those with an Irish passport) to “consider your place of residency (where you live)”, since as it stands ATM the BA assessment of the UK government position is that if you are not settled in the U.K. post BREXIT you will not have the right to work in the U.K.....

Just a reminder to those not following U.K. politics in detail that if there is no agreement and no extension to the Article 50 process we are heading a non negotiated BREXIT that will occur at midnight Central European time, 29/30 March this year, and there will be no transition period.

Last edited by wiggy; 17th Jan 2019 at 08:40.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:26
  #5704 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Spot on MikeAlpha

Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo View Post
I would like to query this; when you joined BA short haul at LHR on PP34, what exactly did you expect? Exactly why leave somewhere like EZY with stable fixed rostering, regional basings and better and fairer command prospects? The misery of BA SH at Heathrow as been long publicised; certainly for those at the ass end of the list. Iím not having a go, Iím just interested to hear the thought process? I can just about get the LH arguement however anyone doing a straight swap from the orange brigade to BA SH in the last 3 or so years must know something that most donít?!
I left EZY to join BA before EASA FTL's kicked in (3 years ago) and pre-Brexit. When I joined BA £1,- was worth Ä1,40. And then some -(fill in yourself)- decided to leave the EU.

First year in BA was actually quite good but then someone decided we should stop recruiting..

Basically, 3 years ago things were different. Would I make the move to BA now? Definitely not.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:29
  #5705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post


I donít know about people going back to Jet2 but at least three Airbus skippers left last year to go to Jet2. I suspect where they live played a part in the decision but at least one hated the prevailing atmosphere.
That and with the bubble they where in at BA, having been part of the take-over a few years back, they were never going to be happy at BA. Some were promised a LBA base by Jet2 before they signed. However when the inkt on the contract was dry they were based in NCL.

I'm Shorthaul myself and coming from an airline different then EasyJet a few years back, I don't find BA SH that harsh. Maybe that was because I did my homework before I joined or maybe was it because with my previous airline the roster was not worth the paper it was written on (in the summer at the end of the month looking back at the given roster 89% of the rostered duties were completely different duties/flights compared to the original roster given) and with the BA rosters I manage to have a life outside work. During the JSS trail runs I was shocked by the rosters it produced, however now it has gone live it ain't that bad (pretty good actually). Looking at some of the junior ibid rosters they look very similar, if not better, as what I had when I was that junior. Some of the swap comments in iBid do make me laugh though. Being in the bottom 20% of the list complaining that you didn't get every weekend off (only 1). Maybe that has more to do with expectation management then JSS or a generation thing; I want it all and I want it now!!

Last edited by Jumbo2; 17th Jan 2019 at 08:39.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:37
  #5706 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 32
I joined BA from low cost and Iím a couple of percent from the bottom in the LHS on short haul.

I still find the work really straightforward compared to EZY - minimal stress, few weekends off so far under JSS. Busy in the summer but Iíve had either one or two weeks leave plus wraps in the school holidays every year since Iíve joined. Most half terms and a couple of Christmas weeks.

I try and do earlies and day trips / short night stops though. Did a few late tours on reserve and they drove me mad! Each to their own. Reasonable notice of your final roster and swapping is very common.

Still enjoy working here - especially so in the left seat where you donít have to listen to the benefits of UKIP any more. Canít say that Iíll be wearing that 100 badge any time soon though.


WhatTheDeuce is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 12:25
  #5707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 41
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 15:11
  #5708 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
Spot on MikeAlpha



I left EZY to join BA before EASA FTL's kicked in (3 years ago) and pre-Brexit. When I joined BA £1,- was worth Ä1,40. And then some -(fill in yourself)- decided to leave the EU.

First year in BA was actually quite good but then someone decided we should stop recruiting..

Basically, 3 years ago things were different. Would I make the move to BA now? Definitely not.
But why would you not recommend moving to BA? There is growth coming up, preforming among the best in the market?

If you want to fly SH and LH then only Air France- KLM and Lufthansa remain. AFKL has almost no growth, financial performance is behind compared to the rest, costs are increasing instead of decreasing and fly also 850-900 hrs LH.

Lufthansa, might be a comparable option to BA., they have growth, good financial results. But also there you fly 850-900 hrs.
People always tend to act if everything is better at the airline they work for. But actually they do not tell you how they really feel. ĎíIt is always better at the other sideíí.

Our job is changing unfortunately and this is industry wide, unfortunately everywhere we see fatigue. I think the aggressive strategy of Lufthansa and BA is the only way to survive, because eventually we will get a new financial crisis . They start making reserves, which is good.
If we talk money, then I fully agree; BA should align with the other legacies. Profit share and a significant pay increase. The same what happened with the other legacies.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 15:17
  #5709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,635
Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
Maybe the Norwegian crews based in AMS will join them now the AMS base is closing...
BA would be wise to speak to the UK AOC's with approved FRMS and how they handle the C word. You only need to talk to the sleepy folk that driving a car for 4 hours to work can be the same as sitting watching TV for 2hrs 30 mins and then driving in for 90 mins. It all depends on how (each) crewmembers manage their rest and how BA manage the % that take the pi$$.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:11
  #5710 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:53
  #5711 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 32
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8

You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you havenít started it by now?
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:57
  #5712 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by nrn View Post



You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you havenít started it by now?

Yes that's what I heard as well. I'm sure there will be a sensible solution, but it might take time
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:16
  #5713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by nrn View Post



You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you haven’t started it by now?
Is that just from UK CAA to EU state or from EU to UK as well? I found the 'eu exit' microsite on the CAA website that shows the recommended date to start the process from UK to EU but not vice versa

Last edited by The Foss; 17th Jan 2019 at 20:00.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:26
  #5714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8
then I am 9
red9 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:39
  #5715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 817
One of the key reasons for the 777/787 rated campaign is exactly the same reason as the A320 rated campaign - training capacity. The BA training system is running full speed and rated applicants get through the system in less than half the time, using half the resources that a non rated pilot does.

Looking at the bid results, a seniority of 3400-3500 where people are moving Airbus to Longhaul seems pretty much bang on 5 years in the company. The numbers are simply representative of the amount of recruitment that has gone on over the last 5 years.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 11:41
  #5716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8000 feet of cabin altitude
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by pilotting View Post
But why would you not recommend moving to BA? There is growth coming up, preforming among the best in the market?
Because it's fashionable to badmouth the company whenever possible.

The best flying job is flying for a legacy in your home country. Dutch pilots going to KLM isn't an accurate reflection of "deterioration" in BA as some would have you believe.
speed freek is online now  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 14:10
  #5717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by pilotting View Post
But why would you not recommend moving to BA? There is growth coming up, preforming among the best in the market?

If you want to fly SH and LH then only Air France- KLM and Lufthansa remain. AFKL has almost no growth, financial performance is behind compared to the rest, costs are increasing instead of decreasing and fly also 850-900 hrs LH.

Lufthansa, might be a comparable option to BA., they have growth, good financial results. But also there you fly 850-900 hrs.
People always tend to act if everything is better at the airline they work for. But actually they do not tell you how they really feel. ĎíIt is always better at the other sideíí.

Our job is changing unfortunately and this is industry wide, unfortunately everywhere we see fatigue. I think the aggressive strategy of Lufthansa and BA is the only way to survive, because eventually we will get a new financial crisis . They start making reserves, which is good.
If we talk money, then I fully agree; BA should align with the other legacies. Profit share and a significant pay increase. The same what happened with the other legacies.
You haven't bothered to read much of this thread have you?
The Blu Riband is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 14:34
  #5718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by speed freek View Post
Because it's fashionable to badmouth the company whenever possible.

The best flying job is flying for a legacy in your home country. Dutch pilots going to KLM isn't an accurate reflection of "deterioration" in BA as some would have you believe.

And here is the reason why we end up in the state we do. I love it. People here have genuine gripes & issues. A lot of us have come from other airlines (are you at BA? were you a cadet?) and have had other experiences- some good, some bad. I am NOT badmouthing BA. I am simply relating my previous experience to my current one. Flying SH airbus from LGW/LHR. I am trying to give people my opinion on the actual reality of working here. Not someone on Instagram/Facebook trying to impress everyone with their fabulous rosters and wonderful work life.

If I was really 'Bad mouthing' them my posts would be far longer and would probably be removed by mods for my colourful language . Why is the best job legacy in your home country? I have plenty of friends working 4 on 4 off home every night at their regional base on part time contracts earning far more than I do in their loco, but I suppose BA is better because its a legacy, right?

You are crazy if you can't see the decline in T&C's at BA. People are leaving, back to where they came from. They are struggling to fill LGW commands. They are getting SH offers refused left right and centre. It has got nothing to do with being fashionable and in all honesty I think you are just insulting those of us that actually go against the grain and don't pretend BA is this utopia that some love to pretend. Ill leave that to the centenary pin wearers
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 16:19
  #5719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8000 feet of cabin altitude
Posts: 532
are you at BA? were you a cadet?
it wasn't a personal attack on you but seeing as you've taken it that way yes I am at BA, I haven't been a cadet for many many years and when I were a lad my first flying job wasn't a shiny A320 with a loco. In other words I've done enough rubbish jobs for enough airlines long gone to know that what we have here is actually very good. You voiced your opinion. I've voiced mine.

If I was really 'Bad mouthing' them my posts would be far longer and would probably be removed by mods for my colourful language . Why is the best job legacy in your home country? I have plenty of friends working 4 on 4 off home every night at their regional base on part time contracts earning far more than I do in their loco, but I suppose BA is better because its a legacy, right?
We have worked for the same loco. I don't see unhealthy crew food here, max FTL days followed by min rest night stops in the airport Novotel using the hotel provided shuttle because the company is too tight to pay for crew transport followed by a day with an aircraft with a U/S oven so the crew food replacement is a pot noodle! If that's your experience of BA then I take it all back and those guys going to KLM are mad when they should be applying for easyJet Amsterdam, Transavia or Ryanair.

You are crazy if you can't see the decline in T&C's at BA.
I flew for easyJet long enough to see the carton of orange juice and the cakes taken away from the crew food, 2 hour early standbys removed and fatigue go up. Or have you forgotten about their near walk out a couple of years ago? Everywhere is in decline. Us, the sand pit, Lufthansa, Doctors, teachers, etc. It is the new norm.

People are leaving, back to where they came from.
Allegedly.

They are struggling to fill LGW commands.
No they're not. Feel free to ask those in the know.

They are getting SH offers refused left right and centre.
Allegedly. All I know is my position on the master seniority list continues to go up as a percentage.

It has got nothing to do with being fashionable and in all honesty I think you are just insulting those of us that actually go against the grain and don't pretend BA is this utopia that some love to pretend. Ill leave that to the centenary pin wearers
I think I'm the one against the grain on this thread actually trying to say it's quite nice here. Of course it's not perfect. Please find me the employer that is and I'll join you in applying.

In the mean time I have the opportunity to fly long haul for an airline making money and I'm in my home country. I'm a simple person. That makes me happy.
speed freek is online now  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 16:34
  #5720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Speedfreek : "Allegedly. All I know is my position on the master seniority list continues to go up as a percentage."
Surely the number (%) must be getting smaller ?
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