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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 5th Jan 2019, 17:50
  #5681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 256
Originally Posted by CessNah View Post
I very vaguely know about the monitored approaches that are performed on every approach, does this prevent you guys from being able to hand fly your approaches?
No, it doesnít.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 17:53
  #5682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by student88 View Post
In all honesty I think it's down to the individual and the SOPs have never made me feel like I shouldn't fly the aircraft. Most guys in the left hand seat are encouraging.
Thank you for the swift reply, appreciate the insight!
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 22:44
  #5683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 919
Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post


No, it doesnít.
Well sort of!
Friend on BA LH says even in CAVOK on his Fleet, most pilots only disconnect the autopilot between 500/1000ft on a manual landing. Not forgetting of course, on all Fleets except the B744, you are forbidden by rigid SOPs to control your speed manually using the thrust levers. Auto throttle mandated for continuous use in flight until the landing flare.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 22:57
  #5684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 1,864
Auto throttle mandated for continuous use in flight until the landing flare.
I did 4 years in command on the 777 with BA before transferring to the 747 so have seen both systems. The '77 is FBW so no pitch/power couple when altering thrust. Hand flying around the Caribbean is a pleasure I will never forget. This is because the autothrust works very well and always "has your back" with smooth adjustments to keep you on speed. I even liked the little nudge you felt through the levers at 25R which was the start of thrust reduction - it was a great clue to commence a gentle pitch up.
The 747 was a previous generation so autothrust wasn't as smooth and I found I could do a much better job fully manual. The trick was to pick your moment - two crew early morning arrival into LHR being a great excuse............to autoland!!
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 09:41
  #5685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
I am on the 747 and love flying manually, but whilst I tend to fly until about FL150 on departure, it is incredibly rare that I fly a manual approach as P2. This is not due to SOPs, but because we are generally just too knackered by the end of the flight. There is not so much enjoyment to be found in anything when you are desperately wishing you were in your bed. I and many others used to fly manual approaches, back before EASA FTLs and final assign, but in my experience it is very rare nowadays. Who knows, perhaps JSS will end up leaving us less tired again, and we will be able to return to the days of manual approaches?
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 10:09
  #5686 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 919
Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
I did 4 years in command on the 777 with BA before transferring to the 747 so have seen both systems. The '77 is FBW so no pitch/power couple when altering thrust. Hand flying around the Caribbean is a pleasure I will never forget. This is because the autothrust works very well and always "has your back" with smooth adjustments to keep you on speed. I even liked the little nudge you felt through the levers at 25R which was the start of thrust reduction - it was a great clue to commence a gentle pitch up.
The 747 was a previous generation so autothrust wasn't as smooth and I found I could do a much better job fully manual. The trick was to pick your moment - two crew early morning arrival into LHR being a great excuse............to autoland!!
Not normally a Pedant, but manual / hand flying is defined as controlling the speed and flightpath.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 11:47
  #5687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: derbyshire UK
Posts: 83
Couldn't agree more. If you don't do both, are you a pilot or merely a systems operator?
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 16:06
  #5688 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,634
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
I am on the 747 and love flying manually, but whilst I tend to fly until about FL150 on departure, it is incredibly rare that I fly a manual approach as P2. This is not due to SOPs, but because we are generally just too knackered by the end of the flight. There is not so much enjoyment to be found in anything when you are desperately wishing you were in your bed. I and many others used to fly manual approaches, back before EASA FTLs and final assign, but in my experience it is very rare nowadays. Who knows, perhaps JSS will end up leaving us less tired again, and we will be able to return to the days of manual approaches?
Please avail the differences from the good old days to the days now with EASA FTL. I must be missing a trick here - you mean 3 crew ops iso 4 maybe? There are plenty of limits under EASA that are more restrictive than CAP371 your not missing the FE are you?

Last edited by Mr Angry from Purley; 6th Jan 2019 at 16:11. Reason: added more
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 16:39
  #5689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
I mean trip two days off followed by trip two days off, and repeat with FA should you try and create a block of days off so you can recover. If you were given such a string of work in the past, you could at least swap a trip to a back to back, giving you 4 days off afterwards for decent recovery (not ideal, but considerably less fatiguing than 2 days off continuously).
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 16:41
  #5690 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,088
Originally Posted by birdstrike View Post
Couldn't agree more. If you don't do both, are you a pilot or merely a systems operator?
.......eh?
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 19:21
  #5691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by birdstrike View Post
Couldn't agree more. If you don't do both, are you a pilot or merely a systems operator?
A modern pilot is both. He/she is also employed to carry out their duties in accordance with whatever SOPs their employer has deemed safest/most efficient
zero/zero is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 20:55
  #5692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by birdstrike View Post
Couldn't agree more. If you don't do both, are you a pilot or merely a systems operator?
Off topic alert.

You're a pilot. Just because we don't spend our days wrestling with the controls in the same way as we might have in the past doesn't mean the job hasn't evolved and developed new challenges. For starters, 900 hrs/year is now a target not a limit. Fatigue is a real concern these days. Automation has changed the industry. Most jobs are evolving all the time at the end of the day.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 21:10
  #5693 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denver
Age: 52
Posts: 20
Just curious, flew there for 8yr, now 15 yr in the US. Back then I felt everyone in the US was working much harder, and often for less pay. Has that totally changed around? I honestly don' think I have to work too hard, and I have a lot of flexibility, can drop down to zero or pick up to the legal limit. Normal schedule for me is 3 4-day and a 3-day. TAFB 250 hours, block 65/70 hours, credit 70/75 hours. Add some other pay stuff so total around $200K/yr before tax, excluding company pension contribution, and I am a 6yr captain at the bottom paying loco. It sounds like everyone there is sick of the job....
hans brinker is online now  
Old 7th Jan 2019, 10:17
  #5694 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Phantom4 View Post
Venco,there is no guarantee you would be offered LH aircraft.It is assessed on your ability to adapt effectively to the aircraft that they are using for sim assessment at the time,not solely on hours accrued and is non negotiable unless it suits BA.
Hi Phantom, I am aware of that. Doesnít mean though that I will accept the job offer if itís shorthaul. Hence my curiosity to net pay on LH :-) Unfortunately no news yet.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 11:52
  #5695 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 50
Good luck Venco.My advice,the answerís yes,even if SH offer.I have known a crew on day three 744 being politely asked to relocate to the 320 CBT
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 16:42
  #5696 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Hi Venco,

As a fellow Dutch guy my advice would be to say no to SH and yes to LH. Unless you're at a very bad place at the moment, only then I would say yes to SH.

To answer your question:
Basic pay year 1: £58.847
Allowances: Just under £20.000 (standing by to be corrected).

Net is hard to say. Depends on your tax situation in the UK/Netherlands.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 16:50
  #5697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,634
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
I mean trip two days off followed by trip two days off, and repeat with FA should you try and create a block of days off so you can recover. If you were given such a string of work in the past, you could at least swap a trip to a back to back, giving you 4 days off afterwards for decent recovery (not ideal, but considerably less fatiguing than 2 days off continuously).
EASA FTL doesn't like back to back trips especially at home base as it forces the operator to give crews hotel accommodation (if my memory serves me right). This might be OK at BA but at other UK AOC's it's frowned upon especially as Mr Tax man see's it as a taxable benefit. The other issue which I know from experience is those crews that live close to base often seem happy with such rosters whereas those using the C word don't....
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2019, 17:09
  #5698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
I know EASA doesnít allow them. You asked me to explain how EASA changed things so I did.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 06:33
  #5699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
Posts: 234
Looking at the 777/787 DEP recruitment, Is there any reason why BA donít offer a LGW base on the 777? I believe there will be 14 aircraft based at Gatwick this Summer, so itís a sizeable operation.

Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact itís not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 08:46
  #5700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,429
Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Looking at the 777/787 DEP recruitment, Is there any reason why BA don’t offer a LGW base on the 777? I believe there will be 14 aircraft based at Gatwick this Summer, so it’s a sizeable operation.

Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact it’s not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.


Unless you are going to crew it with pilots on reduced T&Cs I don’t really see what’s in it for the company...it’s not as if Flight Ops has problems getting people to volunteer to do the work.

There are plenty on the 777 fleet who bid specifically for the LGW work and by a combination of both bidding and swopping trips are in reality pretty much Gatwick based.




Last edited by wiggy; 13th Jan 2019 at 09:01.
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