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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 16th Jan 2019, 21:37
  #5681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 183
You can blame BALPA for the huge decline in T&C's
Yes you can. And you'd be right to do so.
blimey is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 21:51
  #5682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
I would like to query this; when you joined BA short haul at LHR on PP34, what exactly did you expect? Exactly why leave somewhere like EZY with stable fixed rostering, regional basings and better and fairer command prospects? The misery of BA SH at Heathrow as been long publicised; certainly for those at the ass end of the list. Iím not having a go, Iím just interested to hear the thought process? I can just about get the LH arguement however anyone doing a straight swap from the orange brigade to BA SH in the last 3 or so years must know something that most donít?!
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Old 16th Jan 2019, 22:34
  #5683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
As others have said above don't come here for SH. You'd have to be somewhere pretty bad to better off. FTL's are targets and I've never been so close to 60 hours duty/ 7 days more than I have been here. I made the mistake of leaving ezy for BA short haul and IMHO you're not better off. More work for similar pay. Fatigue isn't a recognised concept here and you'll get patronising comments from management telling you to bid for more days off.

As always its each to their own- long term there is more variety and yes the staff travel for Long Haul is a nice addition. Come here for short haul and you will probably be on the airbus for at least 5 years and with all the Long haul DEP possibly even longer. Even when your freeze is up you still need seniority for it. That currently sits about 3400 and as a new joiner you will be somewhere about 4400. Who knows how long it will take. What is long haul even going to look like in 5/6/7 years? BA are after productivity and you bet the workforce here will give it. Never seen so many people offering days off at a pretty embarrassing market rate (330£/day LGW FO) and coming in on days off to 'help-out' when we get extended none of it back.

You can blame BALPA for the huge decline in T&C's here but we are the only ones to blame from what I've seen in a short period of time IMHO. Its look after number 1- the division amongst us as a work force is genuinely quite depressing at times. LHR/LGW SH/LH PP24/34 BARP/NAPS just to name a few. Company have cleverly manipulated the pilots into this position where will they pick away until there is very little left with almost little to no response from us. I remember reading about what people were willing to do to defend NAPS, Bidline e.t.c but surprise surprise where are they both now?

I'm sure there will be plenty along to tell you how great 24 hours in Cairo/Beirut/Tel-Aviv is () and spending every weekend sat in Pret at T5.. at least you can wear your hat and tell everyone you work for BA! If you're lucky enough you might even get to come in unpaid on days off to be a pilot ambassador

Ok, I'll stop now. Its each to their own- I don't see why you would leave other UK (stable) SH operators to come here and I suppose I'd like people to know what I now know about lifestyle on BA short haul. Probably just bitter and don't want to work 85 hours in February when LGW winter is 'Quiet'.
There's not much I can add to this, other than to say I'm afraid this has been my experience entirely. In a vain attempt to be positive, I do enjoy the trips/night stops, and some of the hotels are truly fantastic. But unfortunately this is almost totally eclipsed by the rest of the job.

As always, perspectives vary, and they'll invariably do so depending on where you came from. If your airline is dying or has been abusing you somehow, join. If not, I'd personally avoid it like the plague - unless you're desperate for long haul. Bear in mind though that JSS now destroys any kind of roster control for the juniors, irrespective of fleet. Short haul can be truly appalling - you'll have no control over days off and you'll find yourself switching between earlies and lates relentlessly, often with only one or two days off between. Equally some junior long haul rosters now appear to feature 6 full trips per month, again regularly with only a single day off between trips. How you manage any kind of home life with that kind of roster really is a mystery to me.

As I've seen mentioned before - don't get drawn in by being able to say you work for BA, calling yourself speedbird, or just going there because everyone else is. Think long and hard about it and ask yourself if it's really worth it.
FACoff is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 23:15
  #5684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo View Post
I can just about get the LH arguement however anyone doing a straight swap from the orange brigade to BA SH in the last 3 or so years must know something that most donít?!
Yep, they know they'll get double the pay they had during the lower ranks of EZY. How about leaving for future prospects? You're only ever going to do day trips at EZY, for the rest of time, on the 320. Admittedly for good money and potentially at regional bases. Some aspire to more though.

Sadly of course things at BA have deteriorated so drastically that the above is actually becoming the more appealing option. You only have to look at the current recruitment options to see what BA are having to do to entice people in these days.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 07:33
  #5685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 10
Posts: 437
You can blame BALPA for the huge decline in T&C's here but we are the only ones to blame from what I've seen in a short period of time IMHO. Its look after number 1- the division amongst us as a work force is genuinely quite depressing at times.
Apologise for posting in advance. I don’t and never have worked for BA, but have daily read this thread for the last few years.

Divide and conquer, I’m alright jack. If it does not effect me, I’ll ignore it. BA and easyJet management must be loving reading this thread. I used to work for Shell Aviation at Manchester Airport as a refueller. Many many years ago, the money earning potential for those guys was unreal. Then they offered the Shell guys a mega pay rise as long as they allowed a new rate in for new joiners, like a 2-3 tier pay scale. When the new joiners outnumbered the Shell guys, the Shell guys were made redundant and the work was contracted out to ASIG. Yes you now see them all over LHR and LGW.

BALPA is only as strong as its members. It all depends on how many I’m alright Jacks you have for anything to change or the number of staff leaving outstrips the number arriving and required. Why you would want to leave easyJet to go to BA I often wonder. You even have several pay scales for your cabin crew, again I’m alright Jack. Divide and conquer.

I once jump seated a flight many years ago before I gained my license. It was with Britannia and was just before they starting painting their aircraft a lighter shade of blue thomson.co.uk. I asked the Captain was he sad to lose the old name and colour scheme. His reply was he did not give a [email protected] as longer as his terms and conditions don’t change. I’ll never forget it. Is flying for BA really any better than flying for easyJet in terms of pay, terms and conditions and base options. I even hear BA staff leaving to return to Jet2.

MikeAlpha320 is the best post I’ve read on here for ages and hits the nail on the head.

Good luck to all at BA. About time you backed BALPA and grew some.


Black Pudding is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:13
  #5686 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by Black Pudding View Post


Apologise for posting in advance. I don’t and never have worked for BA, but have daily read this thread for the last few years.

Divide and conquer, I’m alright jack. If it does not effect me, I’ll ignore it. BA and easyJet management must be loving reading this thread. I used to work for Shell Aviation at Manchester Airport as a refueller. Many many years ago, the money earning potential for those guys was unreal. Then they offered the Shell guys a mega pay rise as long as they allowed a new rate in for new joiners, like a 2-3 tier pay scale. When the new joiners outnumbered the Shell guys, the Shell guys were made redundant and the work was contracted out to ASIG. Yes you now see them all over LHR and LGW.

BALPA is only as strong as its members. It all depends on how many I’m alright Jacks you have for anything to change or the number of staff leaving outstrips the number arriving and required. Why you would want to leave easyJet to go to BA I often wonder. You even have several pay scales for your cabin crew, again I’m alright Jack. Divide and conquer.

I once jump seated a flight many years ago before I gained my license. It was with Britannia and was just before they starting painting their aircraft a lighter shade of blue thomson.co.uk. I asked the Captain was he sad to lose the old name and colour scheme. His reply was he did not give a [email protected] as longer as his terms and conditions don’t change. I’ll never forget it. Is flying for BA really any better than flying for easyJet in terms of pay, terms and conditions and base options. I even hear BA staff leaving to return to Jet2.

MikeAlpha320 is the best post I’ve read on here for ages and hits the nail on the head.

Good luck to all at BA. About time you backed BALPA and grew some.

I don’t know about people going back to Jet2 but at least three Airbus skippers left last year to go to Jet2. I suspect where they live played a part in the decision but at least one hated the prevailing atmosphere.
Doug E Style is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #5687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,026
As an important aside BA has finally started to publish advice to employees re BREXIT and it may have consequences for some planning on joining BA and “commuting”...

BA are now telling EU27 nationals (other than those with an Irish passport) to “consider your place of residency (where you live)”, since as it stands ATM the BA assessment of the UK government position is that if you are not settled in the U.K. post BREXIT you will not have the right to work in the U.K.....

Just a reminder to those not following U.K. politics in detail that if there is no agreement and no extension to the Article 50 process we are heading a non negotiated BREXIT that will occur at midnight Central European time, 29/30 March this year, and there will be no transition period.

Last edited by wiggy; 17th Jan 2019 at 08:40.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:26
  #5688 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Spot on MikeAlpha

Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo View Post
I would like to query this; when you joined BA short haul at LHR on PP34, what exactly did you expect? Exactly why leave somewhere like EZY with stable fixed rostering, regional basings and better and fairer command prospects? The misery of BA SH at Heathrow as been long publicised; certainly for those at the ass end of the list. Iím not having a go, Iím just interested to hear the thought process? I can just about get the LH arguement however anyone doing a straight swap from the orange brigade to BA SH in the last 3 or so years must know something that most donít?!
I left EZY to join BA before EASA FTL's kicked in (3 years ago) and pre-Brexit. When I joined BA £1,- was worth Ä1,40. And then some -(fill in yourself)- decided to leave the EU.

First year in BA was actually quite good but then someone decided we should stop recruiting..

Basically, 3 years ago things were different. Would I make the move to BA now? Definitely not.
NLP is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 08:29
  #5689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 42
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post


I donít know about people going back to Jet2 but at least three Airbus skippers left last year to go to Jet2. I suspect where they live played a part in the decision but at least one hated the prevailing atmosphere.
That and with the bubble they where in at BA, having been part of the take-over a few years back, they were never going to be happy at BA. Some were promised a LBA base by Jet2 before they signed. However when the inkt on the contract was dry they were based in NCL.

I'm Shorthaul myself and coming from an airline different then EasyJet a few years back, I don't find BA SH that harsh. Maybe that was because I did my homework before I joined or maybe was it because with my previous airline the roster was not worth the paper it was written on (in the summer at the end of the month looking back at the given roster 89% of the rostered duties were completely different duties/flights compared to the original roster given) and with the BA rosters I manage to have a life outside work. During the JSS trail runs I was shocked by the rosters it produced, however now it has gone live it ain't that bad (pretty good actually). Looking at some of the junior ibid rosters they look very similar, if not better, as what I had when I was that junior. Some of the swap comments in iBid do make me laugh though. Being in the bottom 20% of the list complaining that you didn't get every weekend off (only 1). Maybe that has more to do with expectation management then JSS or a generation thing; I want it all and I want it now!!

Last edited by Jumbo2; 17th Jan 2019 at 08:39.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 10:37
  #5690 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 32
I joined BA from low cost and Iím a couple of percent from the bottom in the LHS on short haul.

I still find the work really straightforward compared to EZY - minimal stress, few weekends off so far under JSS. Busy in the summer but Iíve had either one or two weeks leave plus wraps in the school holidays every year since Iíve joined. Most half terms and a couple of Christmas weeks.

I try and do earlies and day trips / short night stops though. Did a few late tours on reserve and they drove me mad! Each to their own. Reasonable notice of your final roster and swapping is very common.

Still enjoy working here - especially so in the left seat where you donít have to listen to the benefits of UKIP any more. Canít say that Iíll be wearing that 100 badge any time soon though.


WhatTheDeuce is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 12:25
  #5691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 41
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
Pickled is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 15:11
  #5692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
Spot on MikeAlpha



I left EZY to join BA before EASA FTL's kicked in (3 years ago) and pre-Brexit. When I joined BA £1,- was worth Ä1,40. And then some -(fill in yourself)- decided to leave the EU.

First year in BA was actually quite good but then someone decided we should stop recruiting..

Basically, 3 years ago things were different. Would I make the move to BA now? Definitely not.
But why would you not recommend moving to BA? There is growth coming up, preforming among the best in the market?

If you want to fly SH and LH then only Air France- KLM and Lufthansa remain. AFKL has almost no growth, financial performance is behind compared to the rest, costs are increasing instead of decreasing and fly also 850-900 hrs LH.

Lufthansa, might be a comparable option to BA., they have growth, good financial results. But also there you fly 850-900 hrs.
People always tend to act if everything is better at the airline they work for. But actually they do not tell you how they really feel. ĎíIt is always better at the other sideíí.

Our job is changing unfortunately and this is industry wide, unfortunately everywhere we see fatigue. I think the aggressive strategy of Lufthansa and BA is the only way to survive, because eventually we will get a new financial crisis . They start making reserves, which is good.
If we talk money, then I fully agree; BA should align with the other legacies. Profit share and a significant pay increase. The same what happened with the other legacies.
pilotting is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 15:17
  #5693 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
Maybe the Norwegian crews based in AMS will join them now the AMS base is closing...
BA would be wise to speak to the UK AOC's with approved FRMS and how they handle the C word. You only need to talk to the sleepy folk that driving a car for 4 hours to work can be the same as sitting watching TV for 2hrs 30 mins and then driving in for 90 mins. It all depends on how (each) crewmembers manage their rest and how BA manage the % that take the pi$$.
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:11
  #5694 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
Dutch pilots at BA are leaving for KLM, with 6 gone so far and more resignations from BA in the pipeline. There are many reasons for making such a move, but BA's audit of pilots who spend more than 90 minutes travelling to LHR can not have helped. Not many can afford to live comfortably in the south east of England these days.
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:53
  #5695 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 33
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8

You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you havenít started it by now?
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 18:57
  #5696 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by nrn View Post



You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you havenít started it by now?

Yes that's what I heard as well. I'm sure there will be a sensible solution, but it might take time
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 19:16
  #5697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by nrn View Post



You are aware that you cannot transfer your license anymore if you haven’t started it by now?
Is that just from UK CAA to EU state or from EU to UK as well? I found the 'eu exit' microsite on the CAA website that shows the recommended date to start the process from UK to EU but not vice versa

Last edited by The Foss; 17th Jan 2019 at 20:00.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:26
  #5698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by NLP View Post
It's 7 I believe and I hope to be nr 8
then I am 9
red9 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:39
  #5699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 822
One of the key reasons for the 777/787 rated campaign is exactly the same reason as the A320 rated campaign - training capacity. The BA training system is running full speed and rated applicants get through the system in less than half the time, using half the resources that a non rated pilot does.

Looking at the bid results, a seniority of 3400-3500 where people are moving Airbus to Longhaul seems pretty much bang on 5 years in the company. The numbers are simply representative of the amount of recruitment that has gone on over the last 5 years.
Jwscud is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2019, 11:41
  #5700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8000 feet of cabin altitude
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by pilotting View Post
But why would you not recommend moving to BA? There is growth coming up, preforming among the best in the market?
Because it's fashionable to badmouth the company whenever possible.

The best flying job is flying for a legacy in your home country. Dutch pilots going to KLM isn't an accurate reflection of "deterioration" in BA as some would have you believe.
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