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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 28th Nov 2018, 08:14
  #5381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 383
Ok. Positive post alert......maybe it’s the coffee talking but when I called in fatigued I was generally surprised how good the DFCM was. Stood down, ASR filed and nothing more was said.

I am sure fatigue reports will sky rocket. I was afraid to raise a ASR for fatigue in case of come back. Having been fatigued and seeing how much it affected my operation I will file one every time. It’s the only way things will change.

If your report is reasonable I think you will be supported. If it’s not then I believe that is when the hounds are released........excellent!

Coffee is wearing off so I will end on a positive note. Weathers lovely


bex88 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 09:15
  #5382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 87
This is grim reading. I’m mid 30s with a young family. Not too long ago I attended interview/group session. They gave us a presentation before we left and the guy seemed very honest, question asked on JSS they couldn’t answer as no one really knows. Showed us the pay scales and the slightly more pay LH get but the most interesting thing he told us was the rosters, showed us quite a few and even said himself, he wouldn’t take a SH command as he is top 20% of FO list. Gets almost every weekend off and all the trips he wants, took him 11 years to get there.
I so want BA and want to be a Captain at some point not to far away (within 10 years). First few years at BA hard rosters then start to improve and get more seniority which helps. Get offered command on SH end up bottom of the list again along with not being rewarded financially. I know people have said don’t join BA for the pay but then even joining for the lifestyle doesn’t seem that good anymore unless you are early 20s.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 09:41
  #5383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Does anyone know whether BALPA already did some proposals for salary improvements? and are there some rumors? I think that it would be good if they look to the other legacy carriers e.g. at Lufthansa and Air France - KLM? Despite the relatively weak profit (compared to Lufthansa and IAG) Air France- KLM pilots got 4% pay rise and company agreed on more off-days for trips.
To be honest I think BA should not compare itself with Ryan Air and easy Jet but with the legacy carriers.
Then you see that BA pays less for CPTS on SH primarily and First officers LH. Considering the good financial results, profit share would be appropriate. From a financial perspective BA currently is best in class compared to the other legacies, this should go hand in hand with improved pay and more days off. This is a market trend and BA should follow this. Pilotjobsnetwork. com gives a good indication about payscales among the legacies.
pilotting is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 10:26
  #5384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by pilotting View Post
Does anyone know whether BALPA already did some proposals for salary improvements? and are there some rumors? I think that it would be good if they look to the other legacy carriers e.g. at Lufthansa and Air France - KLM? Despite the relatively weak profit (compared to Lufthansa and IAG) Air France- KLM pilots got 4% pay rise and company agreed on more off-days for trips.
To be honest I think BA should not compare itself with Ryan Air and easy Jet but with the legacy carriers.
There are plenty of rumours and optimistic expectations but there is at least one poster here closer to the talks (which are only just starting) than I am so I’ll let them comment if they are able to do so....

I wouldn’t disagree with how benchmarking has been handled....but the big big problem that the BACC and the members will need to tackle in order to achieve a meaningful percentage rise to basic pay is the determination that BA management have always displayed to avoid a pilot specific pay deal, on the grounds that any such “special” deal will encourage unrest and dissatisfaction in other areas ( yes I know..). Any fairly minor pilot only “add ons” that have been plugged into deals in the past have tended to have been well disguised.



wiggy is online now  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 11:19
  #5385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
This is grim reading. I’m mid 30s with a young family. Not too long ago I attended interview/group session. They gave us a presentation before we left and the guy seemed very honest, question asked on JSS they couldn’t answer as no one really knows. Showed us the pay scales and the slightly more pay LH get but the most interesting thing he told us was the rosters, showed us quite a few and even said himself, he wouldn’t take a SH command as he is top 20% of FO list. Gets almost every weekend off and all the trips he wants, took him 11 years to get there.
I so want BA and want to be a Captain at some point not to far away (within 10 years). First few years at BA hard rosters then start to improve and get more seniority which helps. Get offered command on SH end up bottom of the list again along with not being rewarded financially. I know people have said don’t join BA for the pay but then even joining for the lifestyle doesn’t seem that good anymore unless you are early 20s.
In a similar position, 30’s, young kids, part way through the recruitment process and have started questioning whether it’s worth leaving a LoCo close to home. Could I ask anyone in the know if starting on SH and accepting more than the fair share of weekend work, what are the chances of multiple (2? even 3?) days off in a row mid-week? How senior for this to be realistic? Would LGW be different? Asking primarily to avoid relocating from somewhere North and hoping BA at least viable. Cheers.
Jock Trapped is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 12:05
  #5386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 237
Hi Jock Trapped,

The truth is that no one really knows what sort of rosters JSS will create. However, working every weekend being junior is almost a given and of course that means that your days off will generally be in the middle of the week. I think it really depends on the season and how short of pilots we are. In the summer, you may struggle to get 3 off in a row (with some regularity anyway) but with the CAPs much lower in the winter it’s certainly a possibility. Remember as well, you can bank withdraw and swap trips if you need to tweak your roster.

I can’t speak for LGW as I’m junior SH LHR but I imagine it’s similar. Summers = work your ass off, Winter = loads of time off. LGW has typically been a lot more seasonal than LHR so bear that in mind. The company is about to bring some LGW FOs up to LHR on secondment for a few months (marketed as a ‘lifestyle opportunity’). It suits those FOs as they can keep the flying pay of their pay packet up instead of it falling off a cliff at LGW in the winter. Of course it suits BA too as they can artificially lower CAPs at LHR for the first few months of next year before working us to the max for the rest of the year! It’s about them balancing resources and maximising their ‘assets’. They’re not stupid.

champ
champair79 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 12:56
  #5387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 383
Jock Trapped. The reality is as a junior pilot on any fleet you will work most weekends. In the region of 90% and you will get 2 days off mid week. Probably Tuesday, Wednesday. I would expect you would see something like 5 on 2 off as a general pattern. You will get some 3 day blocks off but less so in the summer. You can expect to finish late and start early, at least it seems that way. JSS is a unknown but looking at my dry run results my rosters are far far harder under JSS. Try 16 days work with a weeks leave for example or a summer example had me working 20 days. 6 on 1 off, 5 on 2 off and repeat.

If you have a home base with a loco and command think very very carefully. I can not recommend it but if your drive is to one day fly long haul and you are willing to take a significant pay cut and reduction in lifestyle then go for it. BA has put huge strain on my family and if it were not for my wife being so understanding I would probably be another failed family story.

Just think very carefully at the pros and cons. Some love it, some hate it.
bex88 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 13:38
  #5388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 76
6 on 1 off, 5 on 2 off, really? That sounds dreadful and harder work than the summer just gone at the orange loco.

Another here about to join the LHR sh ranks. Fully aware it wasn't going to be a cake walk and with family situation similar to others weekend work doesn't bother me at the minute. However, that sounds particularly punishing.

I understand the roster restructuring is causing uncertainty for the future but how do typical (if there is such a thing) winter/summer CAP translate into duty/block hours?
Thegreenmachine is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 16:33
  #5389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 661
As someone that started with BA in the regions, if I was working elsewhere for a half decent carrier, I wouldn’t leave it to come to BA. Virtually everyone had to be chiselled out of their regional bases when BA shut them down for various reasons.
‘All the above is true. BA is great if you are a PP24 skipper with decent seniority. Otherwise, it’s hard work, with lots of down sides . TBH, it is only going to get worse, what with BREXIT, extra runways at LHR on the horizon. BA doesn’t do change very well.
hunterboy is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 16:44
  #5390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Now you’ve gone and done it..you’ve used the B word......I think before that happens the biggest clear and present danger for many might be something beginning with J (”lifestyle, stuffed” 3 letters)...
wiggy is online now  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 17:09
  #5391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 87
6on1off5on2off sounds horrendous. We are guaranteed at least 1 weekend off a month. Our worst through summer was 4on1off4on but then 3 or 4 days off.
I want to try long haul but possibly 5 brutal years to get there.
Also I know BA recruitment is full steam ahead at the moment so if you joined recently by this time next year 400 extras would be behind you.
If you join at the end of that chain and BA close up recruitment for 2 years am I right in thinking you could be bottom of a pile for a while thus taking even longer to move LH/ improve your roster?
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 17:21
  #5392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Also I know BA recruitment is full steam ahead at the moment so if you joined recently by this time next year 400 extras would be behind you.
If you join at the end of that chain and BA close up recruitment for 2 years am I right in thinking you could be bottom of a pile for a while thus taking even longer to move LH/ improve your roster?



In very basic terms and in a nutshell..yes.

Now course if people keep retiring and the company pilot headcount/fleet size doesn’t reduce it is unlikely recruitment will stop completely (in the foreseeable future) and so you would hope to trundle up the list, but if there was a major event leading to a downturn you could end up “stuck”.

FWIW from a roster improvement POV you can also end up effectively stuck in place on your fleet if you somehow get into a fleet whilst very junior (directly as a DEP or perhaps because temporarily the fleet isn’t attracting senior bidders but you’ve taken a punt and bid across) and then subsequently the more senior pilots then decide to bid across to the fleet and slot in above you..not likely on shorthaul but can happen on Longhaul..ask me how I know.......

Best bet had always been to join at the start of any recruitment bulge...the trick is actually being able to spot when that is happening.









Last edited by wiggy; 28th Nov 2018 at 17:46.
wiggy is online now  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 18:40
  #5393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
extra runways at LHR on the horizon
Still amazed at the amount of people who think this is going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 18:47
  #5394 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post


Still amazed at the amount of people who think this is going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
I plan to go in 2032. I won't ever use the third runway.
ATTCS armed is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 19:54
  #5395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 785
Some further positivity. I am junior ish (77% from the top) on the 777 and have a very enjoyable lifestyle. The JSS dry runs have given me a roster roughly akin to what I’m after. The flying is generally enjoyable and the colleagues good for a beer at the end of the day. I am generally working 16 or max 17 days a month. It can be tiring, particularly if you get a sequence of trip/2 days off/trip for a few weeks. It seems I may be about to pick up an early LGW command after less than 4 years in BA.

The only thing moving me out of my long haul seat is the desire to see my kids every day and take some of the weight from my wife. When the kids have grown up a bit and are self-sustaining I will be able to go back to long haul and show my wife the bright lights of Riyadh and Abuja, or Boston in a Nor-Easter in January

I should say I already lived within an hour of LHR and was still in the RHS of a LCC when I joined.
Jwscud is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 20:38
  #5396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Going East
Posts: 15
Brexit

How are BA communicating any possible issues with Brexit on the horizon? My employer is making a fair bit of noise regarding possible changes to the pilot establishment so it would be interesting to see how other airlines are viewing the future....
pilotpete123 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 20:49
  #5397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
Very little official Comms, seeing as BA do not fly passengers within European borders I very much doubt it’s an issue at all aside from how it affects the wider British economy.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2018, 21:23
  #5398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by pilotpete123 View Post
How are BA communicating any possible issues with Brexit on the horizon?.
The party line is there will be nil effect...as of this moment I’m not quite as optimistic as some appear to be.

If some in the company are pushed (e.g. I know that some of our Foreign national, foreign resident commuting crewmembers have been a bit spooked about the issue of entering the U.K. prior to reporting for work) the backstop answer is “ that will be down to government policy, nothing to do with BA”.
wiggy is online now  
Old 29th Nov 2018, 18:18
  #5399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
...and back to pay and those who were asking about any possible rises in the near future...hot off the press, this is from a joint union statement (from BALPA plus UNITE plus the GMB) released earlier today:


The joint unions are therefore seeking to agree the following increases: RPI+1.75% (or 5% if higher) from 1-Jan-19; RPI+1.5% from 1-Jan-20 and RPI+1.25% from 1-Jan-21.

We also believe BA is able to give staff a much larger share in the success of the business, aligning the interests of the company, its shareholders and staff. To achieve this aim, the joint unions are seeking to agree (i) an enhanced, all-employee profit-sharing scheme based on a pot equivalent to 7% of BA’s annual operating profit per year and (ii) the introduction of a voluntary sharesave scheme.

....”
wiggy is online now  
Old 29th Nov 2018, 18:34
  #5400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
At a risk of going off topic from the above, does anyone have any details regarding the Stage 3 process? I've got a date booked and have heard from a number of people who have been through the process (those who gained successful offers were already rated on a type in the current BA fleet, those who were unsuccessful were rated on other ac types).

Also, with the 767 now retired, will the process still be conducted In the 767 sim for the foreseeable?

Any clarification appreciated.

Thanks everyone!
VOR.DME is offline  

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