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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 23rd Oct 2018, 16:07
  #5241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by efarto View Post
The control over the roster is unbelievable, junior bidding aside I have much more control over my home life.
Control over your home life on blind lines and (if you really did come in over the summer) reserve every other month? Pull the other one!
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 16:27
  #5242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 564
The control over the roster is unbelievable
. Iím looking forwards to your comments on this subject come January. The step change reduction in the quality of junior rosters is indeed going to be unbelievable. There will be plenty of recruitment though, because weíll likely see the largest number of resignations in the history of BA pilots.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 16:33
  #5243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toulouse
Age: 20
Posts: 4
Do you have 2018 payscales??

Thanks,
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 16:36
  #5244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,384
Well I guess in fairness roster stability might be improved, that is a common claim, but “control”??? Even if control (define) was good relative to the purple lot that’s all moot looking ahead not that far into the future....

Anyway folks, on that subject don’t forget, last ever BA Bidline Stage One bid due out tomorrow
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:11
  #5245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
The step change reduction in the quality of junior rosters is indeed going to be unbelievable.
Agreed, BA are going to have to manage this very, very carefully indeed because, once word gets out about how brutal the rosters are at the bottom end of the P2 List on Long Haul (and word will get out), the company will have a recruitment crisis. No one in their right mind is going to want to join to be fatigued senseless flying 6 low credit trips with two days off between each every month. We’ve seen how emirates has a recruitment crisis partly because of the fatigue and how word has spread like wildfire about how dreadful it is out there. Make no mistake, it’s BA’s turn next and I’m not overdramatising this. The junior rosters (and therefore the quality of life) on Long Haul, if it’s anything like the JSS run going forward, are going to be absolutely frickin’ horrendous.



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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:34
  #5246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
How did your JSS dry run work out?
didnít get to do one

i appreictae JSS may change things too but even with the worse, I feel much less fatigued than previous outfit.

I guess my requirements are a lot less, my home life felxibile so my JSS commands will be short.

Didnt mean to start a war , but from coming from somewhere where the workload was high and control was low, just trying to point out that Iím glad I made the move, and itís not all doom and gloom. My initial post maybe should of come with a warning that this post contains something positive, alert the managers. Anyone looking to come to BA from a similar background Iíd reccomend coming. After all this is a BA recruitment forum, not a winging about BA forum.

Im happy to be in a better place, but Iím sure youíll all try and convince me otherwise

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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:46
  #5247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 49
Plenty more people will join from Purple Airways.They are a quality product and their CX is a problem.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:48
  #5248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Perhaps so, does that mean now I have a little perspective, that others may have lost?

Regarding blind line, that totally suited me. Swapped most of it to get things to work for me. Also a seeded blind line worked for me too. Whilst I realise Iíll never be in Cape Town every Monday to Friday Iím happy with what I get. Moneyís good for working extra hard and Iíve had much more useful time at home.

Having a preference is a new thing to me, and most others from a previous airline. By not having a choice (blind line, fallback, max trips) itís no different to what Iíve come from. But instead thereís a warm meal in front of me and a bit of job security. It ainít all bad folks!
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 18:13
  #5249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Efarto the point is seeded blind lines are gone. Forever. Say hello to Kuwait, Lagos, Abuja, Riyadh etc every single month. Youíve swapped duties? Show me an airline that doesnít allow you to do that. I know for a fact we could at Flybe, I was there too. Iím not trying to rub it in but life is about to get really, really s*** for junior people. That absolutely is relevant information for recruitment going forward and a BA recruitment thread.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 18:50
  #5250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,384
Originally Posted by efarto View Post

i appreictae JSS may change things too but even with the worse, I feel much less fatigued than previous outfit.

How do you know what the worse will be if you didn’t participate in a dry run?
Given you didn’t have you had a look at the results of the dry run and got an idea of what work pilots of your seniority ended up with?

As for being less fatigued now, well that is a good thing no doubt but it is a consequence of rostering under Bidline. Maybe we can revisit this conversation after 6 months under JSS where, as our esteemed colleagues have pointed out, there are no more blindlines, seeded trips, etc, and much more scope for much more efficient utilisation of assets (us).

Fundamentally I’ll be honest and say I think it is a bit misleading to start encouraging people to “come on in, the water is lovely,” based on rosters worked under a very shortly to be defunct rostering system...

I guess my requirements are a lot less, my home life felxibile so my JSS commands will be short.
Lots can rightly claim that (self included), it guarantees nothing...FWIW a lot of people who put in short commands for the dry runs were suprised by the level of satisfaction they didn’t achieve.

Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Oct 2018 at 20:17.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 18:50
  #5251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 78
Swap duties at Flybe. Lol
Not this summer, if swapping and youíre working the same hours same day ok but if wanting days off no way. Itís been impossible, rumour for next summer 100 FOs short yes FOs donít no about captains.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 18:51
  #5252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Agree with many of above. Suspect like many of us Iíve kept my mouth stchtumb on this thread re further gen whilst we still digest the results. I, like others joined the firm to be told bidline that was trumpeted about so much during the Q and A was going. Well that was a nice start...

Others still have a choice. I think this is serious, and folk shouldnít under estimate how this may feature on their wish list. Whilst we have to be accurate and empathise with new guys, all we have seen are practices with the system - but, we are all making educated perceptions of it (emphasis on that bit). It would be false if we gave outside folk the idea this will definately all blow over and amount to just a minor change.

Iíve flown LH elsewhere and, also at the small regional airline mentioned above (a while ago now). Can only say people must have worked in some really shit places if they think those dry run LH rosters look ok. Either that or theyíre new to LH and have never flown anything other than BLR rosters.

LH tends to get people after some years. Iíve had benefit (?) of some LH rosters that featured reversals like those on the dry run. They will total you over years. Fecking awful.

Iím looking to exit stage left. Seems to be a case of ďtoo late nowĒ. It wonít get over turned. Thoroughly regret joining and actually quite annoyed about it all. I joined this outfit having just left one firm where the senior Gods sold the juniors down the river.

Anyone thinking of joining look yourself in the mirror and say the words lifestyle and health. Ask how important they are to you and your family. Basically right now, anyone who tells you they KNOW are misleading - theyíre working off old and outdated info (bidline is dead). All of us, right now are essentially estimating. It comes down to how safe are these estimates. Read between the lines in the above posts is all Iíd say. Suffice the evidence is pointing that these are the two things you MAY WELL give up.

Lifestyle & health.


HEALTH WARNING - NON OF US HAVE FLOWN ONE OF THESE NEW ROSTERS YET.




Last edited by Wireless; 24th Oct 2018 at 10:58.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 18:56
  #5253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Efarto the point is seeded blind lines are gone. Forever. Say hello to Kuwait, Lagos, Abuja, Riyadh etc every single month. You’ve swapped duties? Show me an airline that doesn’t allow you to do that. I know for a fact we could at Flybe, I was there too. I’m not trying to rub it in but life is about to get really, really s*** for junior people. That absolutely is relevant information for recruitment going forward and a BA recruitment thread.


True re swapping, but with so many hoops to jump through and rules to adhere too, its so much easier here.

Kuwait is swappable Free dry cleaning and breakfast can’t be that bad. Folk love Lagos for the lack of nights rest needed and I’m sure Abujah is just lovely this time of year. Sure beats a 6 sector day.

That at aside if I wanted to travel the amazing popular palaces I’d of applied to mixed fleet not DEP. Still happy to fly an amazing machine with mostly great people. Why does it all have to be bad?

Last edited by efarto; 23rd Oct 2018 at 19:08.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:04
  #5254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 66
Iím so sick of new joiners coming in and telling us how wonderful it all is , it has changed since I have been here AND it will change agin !! I am fatigued constantly and I canít wait for my lifestyle to be f#cked under the new roster system
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:14
  #5255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
Iím so sick of new joiners coming in and telling us how wonderful it all is , it has changed since I have been here AND it will change agin !! I am fatigued constantly and I canít wait for my lifestyle to be f#cked under the new roster system
perhaps, but my original post was to point out that itís better than some peopleís previous airline.

Over and out.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:17
  #5256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Wireless has made some of the most consistently brilliant posts Iíve ever read on this forum over the last couple of weeks or so and he has completely nailed it again with his last post.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:25
  #5257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toulouse
Age: 20
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by 170SVDG View Post
Do you have 2018 payscales??

Thanks,
Anyone able to reply me??
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:52
  #5258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by efarto View Post
. Still happy to fly an amazing machine with mostly great people. Why does it all have to be bad?
Hi Efarto.

Sorry to chime into your reply. You make some points that are very good to respond to. If you donít mind me asking, you sound quite new to LH?

The problem is...some things are just not tradeable commodities. And selling ourselves as such under a Faustian bargain is terribly misguided however well meant in eagerness to display positivity. Its like catnip to business owners. We really shouldnít help them line our early boxes. Between them and the regulators they already think Pilots cry wolf about lifestyle and stress and can be bought out by a new jumbo, a few dollars and a half baked FTL scheme. Non of us are Egyptian Faroes. We canít take that stuff with us.

New equipment, nice destinations. All tend to be currency amongst people very new to LH. Itís no accident they rarely feature in the dailies of folk doing it a few years. Is that any coincidence? Ask why. It is no accident.

Iíd venture further, if their personal life, and health balance is safe, then those of course can be a source of side pleasure. But they are not trade-able, and in many of us those little extras become eclipsed very quickly by more pressing issues.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 20:02
  #5259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Iím not trying to rub it in but life is about to get really, really s*** for junior people.
No one knows that for a fact yet. A third of the airline didn't even bid in the last JSS run and the parameters they're using are apparently changing every time. A good proportion of the people I fly with don't even understand how to bid properly. Surely it's little wonder some of the rosters aren't what they could/should be - even for those further up the list.

It's a shame to be losing bidline, but frankly if JSS can produce rosters any worse than those I've had as a P2 on the airbus this summer, I'll be quite impressed. I agree though, BA do need to be careful. If the seniority gradient really does go as vertical as it seems it may, not only will they lose their ability to attract people (arguably happening now anyway), they'll start bleeding pilots as well.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 20:03
  #5260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 275
Unhappy

Currently working my notice to join LH, I'm having second thoughts now after reading this thread
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