BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
I do not disagree that technology might enable pilot numbers per flight to be reduced one day, but do you honestly believe redundancies are inevitable when that happens? Or that it will be happening any time in the next decade? The pilot numbers currently required, both within the company and globally, mean the risk of redundancies is minimal, even with a significant global downturn. There will at some point be a bit of pressure on more senior pilots to take their commands, simply so they can get their NAPS pensions uplifted before the end of the transition period, but the end of 2023 is still a fair way off yet.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
if I’m wrong but I believe that the A350 is already capable of a fully autonomous emergency descent. Of course if there’s the technology available think of the amount of pilots BA will be in surplus on the LH fleets. We’ve seen Alex Cruz attempt to outsource everything that moves and put all the ground station staff in the USA at risk, do you really think BA are going to keep a surplus amount of pilots in work that are not needed purely out of goodwill?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
It will require a change of EASA FTLs.
That will be fought to the death by pilots unions across Europe.
I wouldnt strike for much, but a reduction in safety standards to this gross level, suggested above, would be one reason I would back a strike, for the simple reason that it would be european companies that receive cost benefit, with significant ímpact on risk to our passengers.
I think the corporate world realizes this, which is why there will be no debate about it happening, no lobbying for a change and therefore no change.
That will be fought to the death by pilots unions across Europe.
I wouldnt strike for much, but a reduction in safety standards to this gross level, suggested above, would be one reason I would back a strike, for the simple reason that it would be european companies that receive cost benefit, with significant ímpact on risk to our passengers.
I think the corporate world realizes this, which is why there will be no debate about it happening, no lobbying for a change and therefore no change.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
So where is your supposed NPA? Or is this just scaremongering?
The new FTLs were required to harmonise fatigue regs across Europe and were broadly similar to CAP371. IIagree though that they were a derugulation and a move in the wrong direction. The suggestion that augmented rest is simply binned off is not going to happen as it's used globally by even the likes of the GCAA.
There are too many examples of why sustained single pilot cruise ops is an utterly awful idea for it to change.
The new FTLs were required to harmonise fatigue regs across Europe and were broadly similar to CAP371. IIagree though that they were a derugulation and a move in the wrong direction. The suggestion that augmented rest is simply binned off is not going to happen as it's used globally by even the likes of the GCAA.
There are too many examples of why sustained single pilot cruise ops is an utterly awful idea for it to change.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
You’ve got to get this technology approved. Then you’ve got to actually get those aircraft into the airlines. A company is not going to just replace its entire fleet overnight. The fuel savings of modern jets are massive compared to the savings you are speaking of, and yet we didn’t immediately bin the 747 overnight. BA pilots are unlikely to have to worry about your scenario for at least another decade or two. It certainly isn’t making me think I need to rush out and get my command before I get made redundant.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Anyone read the special feature in Flight OPS news with KG?
interesting read. Some points I picked out
* We need to have a adult conversation
* Some bidline rules are no longer relevant
* More hours in a day but fewer days at work, achieved by SH one crew doing 10 hour days with fixed links. LH replacing 48 Hr slips with 24 hr ones.
* LH are rewarded slightly above market rate
* SH are market rate. But then says we are not way off, we need to look at the blended market rate.
* As a workforce we are demotivated
* No reason why BA pilots won’t fly LEVEL aircraft. Same model as Air Canada and Rouge.
Take it as you will but it sounds like any pay deal will be attached to more efficiencies and sacrifice of bidline rules. I like the sound of some of it but I fear we will work max hours but not see more days at home.
Automation: A friend of mine works for a large company developing AI. Aviation is the last place it will come because of the cost, the regulatory testing, public opinion and the consequence of failure.
interesting read. Some points I picked out
* We need to have a adult conversation
* Some bidline rules are no longer relevant
* More hours in a day but fewer days at work, achieved by SH one crew doing 10 hour days with fixed links. LH replacing 48 Hr slips with 24 hr ones.
* LH are rewarded slightly above market rate
* SH are market rate. But then says we are not way off, we need to look at the blended market rate.
* As a workforce we are demotivated
* No reason why BA pilots won’t fly LEVEL aircraft. Same model as Air Canada and Rouge.
Take it as you will but it sounds like any pay deal will be attached to more efficiencies and sacrifice of bidline rules. I like the sound of some of it but I fear we will work max hours but not see more days at home.
Automation: A friend of mine works for a large company developing AI. Aviation is the last place it will come because of the cost, the regulatory testing, public opinion and the consequence of failure.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Your insurance premiums will be a lot higher than the cost of that second pilots salary and pension methinks.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Bex...
Thanks for the heads up..just had a look.....in a desperate attempt to keep within one intent of this thread (info for prospective new joiners) it looks like if Klaus has his way they may be able to enjoy LAX night-stops (thinks “legacy agreements” and the age old question of why Seattle isn’t on the West Coast
.....maybe some day soon it will be...)
.....
You are probably right, the company aren’t going to sit back and let bigger gaps on rosters go to waste....
Thanks for the heads up..just had a look.....in a desperate attempt to keep within one intent of this thread (info for prospective new joiners) it looks like if Klaus has his way they may be able to enjoy LAX night-stops (thinks “legacy agreements” and the age old question of why Seattle isn’t on the West Coast
.....maybe some day soon it will be...)
I fear we will work max hours but not see more days at home.
You are probably right, the company aren’t going to sit back and let bigger gaps on rosters go to waste....
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Just read it. I love the way he’s spinning a 24h nightstop in LAX as being for our benefit, not the company’s. My God the guy is absolutely deluded if he thinks we can’t see straight through that.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 53
From: The Dirty South
In some ways the person in question is quite direct. He was once asked about the efficacy of pilots sitting around for hours between flights. He responded that your idea of efficiency, is not the same as his.
This is the moment when you need BALPA firing on all cylinders and a united pilot group. He’s dealt with large well funded unions. A weak BALPA is like catnip.
To remain on topic - would Virgin Atlantic hire him ? Rhetorical obviously. But Cruz would.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 66
Likes: 25
From: UK
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Button Moon
As is the 777. Having come from the 76 where it was routine to disconnect the A/T on approach, it’s taken a a bit of time to adapt to my left thumb doing nothing at the appropriate time.
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: UK
You have no idea how bad this can get. The goal is for BA to look and feel like a Legacy first class carrier to the public, with pilots compensated at the low end of low cost carrier rates. Think about what ‘blended market rates’ means - pick the worst compensated A320 carriers in Europe and then blend their Terms and Conditions. Perhaps throw Norwegians 787 rates into a compensation comparison for LH. Then outsourcing and dividing groups (long haul/short haul, pensions, Level etc.) to the furthest extent possible.
In some ways the person in question is quite direct. He was once asked about the efficacy of pilots sitting around for hours between flights. He responded that your idea of efficiency, is not the same as his.
This is the moment when you need BALPA firing on all cylinders and a united pilot group. He’s dealt with large well funded unions. A weak BALPA is like catnip.
To remain on topic - would Virgin Atlantic hire him ? Rhetorical obviously. But Cruz would.
This is exactly what i named earlier. BA is a legacy, and as they say themselves, with highest standards, a best in class airline, and require the best in class pilots (BA is proud to tell that only 5%-10% of the DEP applicants gets into BA). Then they should not measure their pilots with with the average. But should compare themselves with the other EUROPE legacies, having the same requirements as BA. So: Air France- KLM and Lufthansa (Lufthansa got +10% pay rise in the new CLA). And not with Eurowings, Thompson, Norwegian, Wizz, Flybe. You cannot compare even, because Eurowings, and Norwegian have fast upgrades to CPT LH. Which is not so much the case at the legacies.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: England
Does anyone find that there's much operational seasonality at BA?
i.e Can you expect your roster to quieten down/surviving standby's towards the winter time or is it pretty much full-on all year round?
i.e Can you expect your roster to quieten down/surviving standby's towards the winter time or is it pretty much full-on all year round?
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
LGW = quieter winters
LHR = generally busy all year round. It does slacken a little in the winter but not much. Usually we go from chronically short of crew to just short of crew. If the numbers were right then yes you could expect it to be a little easier. It is nothing like the change you see in charter ops though.
LHR = generally busy all year round. It does slacken a little in the winter but not much. Usually we go from chronically short of crew to just short of crew. If the numbers were right then yes you could expect it to be a little easier. It is nothing like the change you see in charter ops though.