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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 23rd Oct 2018, 21:08
  #5261 (permalink)  

Supercharged PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,159
Long haul, around 3 years in, and previous experience with Exeter Airlines and the Middle East.

BA is far from perfect, but life so far has been pretty gentlemanly Ė helped in recent months by some of my fleetís work being picked up by others. However, my JSS dry run roster was utterly, utterly horrific. 6 trips, 12 days off, minimum rest between trips and East, West, Middle East, you name it.


It looked horribly like an Emirates / Qatar / Flydubai roster, and if the real JSS rosters are anything like that, Iíd be fatigued with a month Ė two months tops. I really hope Iím proved wrong, but I suspect thereís a rostering horror show coming down the track.
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Old 23rd Oct 2018, 21:50
  #5262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,383
Originally Posted by Windshearescape View Post
You sound like you are mixed fleet. They get fed up after about 6 months, then they leave to go and finish their A levels.
Just to show there’s always an exception that proves the rule etc...

On my second most recent mixed fleet trip whilst passing the time in idle chit chat (“what did you do before BA....”) we discovered that our forward galley team’s qualifications were as follows:

One M. Phil Mathematics (Oxbridge) then the City.........
One B.Sc Maths
One B.Sc Economics (which according to her made her “the thick one” out of the three.......)



Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Oct 2018 at 22:13.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 04:52
  #5263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
No one knows that for a fact yet. A third of the airline didn't even bid in the last JSS run and the parameters they're using are apparently changing every time. A good proportion of the people I fly with don't even understand how to bid properly. Surely it's little wonder some of the rosters aren't what they could/should be - even for those further up the list..
The argument that because a third of people didnít bid we can expect the land of milk and honey in comparison when everyone gets involved is completely bogus and I donít know where that understanding has come from. The work has still been allocated around all pilots, the junior guys arenít picking up the remainder of the work amongst them whilst that segment of the workforce has been given the month off. There isnít a great deal to be positive about to be honest and, if anything, everyone piling in is only going to make matters worse for the junior bods as the seniority gradient will become steeper.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 06:59
  #5264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,383
As you rightly say the non bidders were rostered (? Fallback) so the bidders didn’t get loaded up artificially, though the trips the non bidders got and spacing thereof might have been sub optimal (in their eyes) to some extent.

I suspect for the first few months those who have got their heads round the system will do well and some of the junior pilots will I’m sure profit from the ignorance of some above....however I reckon by Easter or not long most of us (even me) will have grasped enough of the basics to make i decent stab at a bid and that’s when we’ll be seeing how JSS vs, seniority really shakes out.

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Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:35
  #5265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 382
In 17 rolling days I have worked 14........no wonder my friends in the LOCO’s won’t even consider BA when they know the reality of our rostering
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:42
  #5266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 564
efarto

I always find it entertaining when people swap from short haul to long haul and tell me how easy long haul is, be that from within the company or as a DEP. Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again; 99% of fresh long haulers feel like you. They recover almost overnight from the extreme tiredness they felt on short haul, and they enjoy having a bit of time off down route and visiting the new destinations. They hardly even notice the time changes and the nights out of bed because they are not long term fatigued and they never have been. We have all been there!

A couple of years of long haul punishment under JSS and I guarantee you will change your tune.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 11:53
  #5267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
14 days on in 17... long term fatigue on LH... yet people soldier on and refuse to report fatigued. We're our own worst enemy.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 15:53
  #5268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,383
Originally Posted by Windshearescape View Post
Yes it attracts all types, just to note I wasn't having a dig at the crew merely illustrating the point that flying long haul for a few months is easy..
Nah don’t worry I didn’t take it as a dig at all... .Funny thing about mixed Fleet is you get extremes...lots obviously aren’t that long out of school (I gather our first lot with d.o.b’s of 2000 are on line.. g** I feel old.....ooh, that’s cos I am ) OTOH it has given the opportunity for some who have had long careers in completely different fields to basically take a career break and travel the world for a year or two...it can make for some interesting conversations..

...and yes, I completely agree with your point about Longhaul and how the fatigue builds.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:18
  #5269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 70
Given all the negativity regarding lifestyle and health, what is the overall advice here? Is this a caution regarding the early years with light at the end of the tunnel, or is the suggestion not to join at all? Asking as a concerned potential joiner.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:24
  #5270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 382
FACoff: thatís SH....
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 17:26
  #5271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 66
I would say if you join , do so with your eyes wide open !!
It is still a good company to work for , BUT it is going down hill rapidly !
The light at the end of the tunnel was always the LH life ! But that has long gone
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 18:43
  #5272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
FACoff: thatís SH....
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.

Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 19:17
  #5273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.

Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
well as the old saying goes ď each to their ownĒ , I have been in for 6 years . Been on the 787 for 2 , at first it was like a Valhalla compared to SH (like many of our colleagues from Flybe are feeling) but itís starting to take its toll on me and my family , I am unhappy and tired most of the time (could be because Iím a grumpy [email protected]) . The new roster system is terrifying me I canít imagine doing more work , but Iím sure there is a way !
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 21:40
  #5274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
For balance, I really liked the sample roster JSS gave me and I'm still nearer the bottom of the pile than the top. I hope it wasn't a fluke and will reflect my rosters going forward. One drawback for me with Bidline has always been that the trip lines of work are too mixed up (e.g. half a dozen early day trips in the first half of the month followed by a late four day tour and then a few more day trips and then maybe a standover or a night Moscow), ultimately satisfying nobody's preferences for the types of work they like doing. The very few lines that are genuinely brilliant lines will get snapped up by the top two or three guys on the list and everyone else is left to compromise to some extent. And the only way to subsequently get rid of the stuff you don't want is by swapping with other people. Most guys (and girls) I fly with have preferences for particular things, and (weekends off excluded) it seems there are more or less enough of those "things" to go around (day trips for the day trippers, tours for the tourers etc).
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 22:55
  #5275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 58
Does anyone know roughly what TAFB/Time Away From Base Pay adds up to in addition to basic salary in an average year?
TIA!
GetTheQRH is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 12:17
  #5276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by GetTheQRH View Post
Does anyone know roughly what TAFB/Time Away From Base Pay adds up to in addition to basic salary in an average year?
TIA!

For me it has averaged at £870 per month. I'm Full-Time, Heathrow-based Short Haul with a preference for tours.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 15:33
  #5277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 183
For balance, my November has 14 days work, every weekend off (3 long weekends) It's not all doom and gloom!
Stocious is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 19:45
  #5278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 564
For balance, my November roster is awesome. It is the fiirst time I have had a Ďnormalí workload roster all year mind.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:38
  #5279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 93
The truth is, no one will really know what JSS is like until we have a few months of live bidding where everyone is regularly participating. If it turns out to be as bad as some people expect, BA will have a massive problem in terms of recruitment and retention and will have to address it.

I mourn the loss of bidline as much as anyone else, but I can't believe its going to be as apocalyptic as some suggest.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 23:41
  #5280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 362
To all who want to join, keep a close eye on this thread over the next few months. It will be extremely telling.

If if things go as I expect, these are my predictions. Call it an educated guess.

Practically no-one will leave a command anywhere else to go to BA in either SH or LH.

No FO from the usual suspects will even entertain joining BA short haul (future ďcadetsĒ, your time may have come).

No FO from the usual suspects aged much over 30 will want to come to longhaul as the junior lifestyle will not be compatible with young family life (not sure it is currently either to be fair).

There will always be exceptions, I appreciate that. My bet is most of those exceptions will have become fed up with opening the curtains in the morning and seeing beige. Theyíll be the ones whoíve made their money.

I think BAís day of reckoning is close.
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