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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 24th Oct 2018, 06:59
  #5261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
As you rightly say the non bidders were rostered (? Fallback) so the bidders didn’t get loaded up artificially, though the trips the non bidders got and spacing thereof might have been sub optimal (in their eyes) to some extent.

I suspect for the first few months those who have got their heads round the system will do well and some of the junior pilots will I’m sure profit from the ignorance of some above....however I reckon by Easter or not long most of us (even me) will have grasped enough of the basics to make i decent stab at a bid and that’s when we’ll be seeing how JSS vs, seniority really shakes out.

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Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:35
  #5262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 385
In 17 rolling days I have worked 14........no wonder my friends in the LOCO’s won’t even consider BA when they know the reality of our rostering
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:42
  #5263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
efarto

I always find it entertaining when people swap from short haul to long haul and tell me how easy long haul is, be that from within the company or as a DEP. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; 99% of fresh long haulers feel like you. They recover almost overnight from the extreme tiredness they felt on short haul, and they enjoy having a bit of time off down route and visiting the new destinations. They hardly even notice the time changes and the nights out of bed because they are not long term fatigued and they never have been. We have all been there!

A couple of years of long haul punishment under JSS and I guarantee you will change your tune.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 11:53
  #5264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 77
14 days on in 17... long term fatigue on LH... yet people soldier on and refuse to report fatigued. We're our own worst enemy.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 15:53
  #5265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by Windshearescape View Post
Yes it attracts all types, just to note I wasn't having a dig at the crew merely illustrating the point that flying long haul for a few months is easy..
Nah don’t worry I didn’t take it as a dig at all... .Funny thing about mixed Fleet is you get extremes...lots obviously aren’t that long out of school (I gather our first lot with d.o.b’s of 2000 are on line.. g** I feel old.....ooh, that’s cos I am ) OTOH it has given the opportunity for some who have had long careers in completely different fields to basically take a career break and travel the world for a year or two...it can make for some interesting conversations..

...and yes, I completely agree with your point about Longhaul and how the fatigue builds.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:18
  #5266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 70
Given all the negativity regarding lifestyle and health, what is the overall advice here? Is this a caution regarding the early years with light at the end of the tunnel, or is the suggestion not to join at all? Asking as a concerned potential joiner.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:24
  #5267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 385
FACoff: that’s SH....
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 17:26
  #5268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 69
I would say if you join , do so with your eyes wide open !!
It is still a good company to work for , BUT it is going down hill rapidly !
The light at the end of the tunnel was always the LH life ! But that has long gone
Riskybis is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 18:43
  #5269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
FACoff: that’s SH....
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.

Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 19:17
  #5270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.

Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
well as the old saying goes “ each to their own” , I have been in for 6 years . Been on the 787 for 2 , at first it was like a Valhalla compared to SH (like many of our colleagues from Flybe are feeling) but it’s starting to take its toll on me and my family , I am unhappy and tired most of the time (could be because I’m a grumpy [email protected]) . The new roster system is terrifying me I can’t imagine doing more work , but I’m sure there is a way !
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 21:40
  #5271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
For balance, I really liked the sample roster JSS gave me and I'm still nearer the bottom of the pile than the top. I hope it wasn't a fluke and will reflect my rosters going forward. One drawback for me with Bidline has always been that the trip lines of work are too mixed up (e.g. half a dozen early day trips in the first half of the month followed by a late four day tour and then a few more day trips and then maybe a standover or a night Moscow), ultimately satisfying nobody's preferences for the types of work they like doing. The very few lines that are genuinely brilliant lines will get snapped up by the top two or three guys on the list and everyone else is left to compromise to some extent. And the only way to subsequently get rid of the stuff you don't want is by swapping with other people. Most guys (and girls) I fly with have preferences for particular things, and (weekends off excluded) it seems there are more or less enough of those "things" to go around (day trips for the day trippers, tours for the tourers etc).
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 22:55
  #5272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 62
Does anyone know roughly what TAFB/Time Away From Base Pay adds up to in addition to basic salary in an average year?
TIA!
GetTheQRH is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 12:17
  #5273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by GetTheQRH View Post
Does anyone know roughly what TAFB/Time Away From Base Pay adds up to in addition to basic salary in an average year?
TIA!

For me it has averaged at £870 per month. I'm Full-Time, Heathrow-based Short Haul with a preference for tours.
Dracarys is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 15:33
  #5274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 186
For balance, my November has 14 days work, every weekend off (3 long weekends) It's not all doom and gloom!
Stocious is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 19:45
  #5275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
For balance, my November roster is awesome. It is the fiirst time I have had a ‘normal’ workload roster all year mind.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:38
  #5276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 94
The truth is, no one will really know what JSS is like until we have a few months of live bidding where everyone is regularly participating. If it turns out to be as bad as some people expect, BA will have a massive problem in terms of recruitment and retention and will have to address it.

I mourn the loss of bidline as much as anyone else, but I can't believe its going to be as apocalyptic as some suggest.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 23:41
  #5277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 363
To all who want to join, keep a close eye on this thread over the next few months. It will be extremely telling.

If if things go as I expect, these are my predictions. Call it an educated guess.

Practically no-one will leave a command anywhere else to go to BA in either SH or LH.

No FO from the usual suspects will even entertain joining BA short haul (future “cadets”, your time may have come).

No FO from the usual suspects aged much over 30 will want to come to longhaul as the junior lifestyle will not be compatible with young family life (not sure it is currently either to be fair).

There will always be exceptions, I appreciate that. My bet is most of those exceptions will have become fed up with opening the curtains in the morning and seeing beige. They’ll be the ones who’ve made their money.

I think BA’s day of reckoning is close.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 03:05
  #5278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Somewhere sunny
Posts: 8
Thank you

Originally Posted by NLP View Post


Yes, Captain within 18 months is possible. Latest rumours are everyone who has bid for a LGW command in 2019 will get it. LHR transfer as a FO is no problem, in fact you can probably tell them you’d prefer LHR and start there. LHR Captain is harder as you will need the seniority for a LHR command. Latest rumours for LHR command is ~3500 on a ~4350 pilot workforce.

Disclaimer: it’s rumour and appearantly very fluid at the moment.


Thank you NLP!

I've tried to read this long thread as far back as I could looking for the most accurate and complete disclosable information any of us can get. BA seems like a good (but not great) gig. I guess life is not perfect.

One concern I see people getting is the holy pound vs days off. I guess it would help if the airline could guarantee some 15 consecutive days off plus commuting option to our front door and a million in the bank every month for our wives to spend in shoes and handbags. Don't get me wrong this is my kind of employer too, but it would bankrupt soon.

Last edited by sun shines every day; 30th Oct 2018 at 03:42. Reason: Ethical reasons
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Old 30th Oct 2018, 03:52
  #5279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 661
I would leave it a couple of months after Jan though, as I think there will be more than a few disgruntled pilots upset with their rosters in the first few months of JSS bidding until we learn how the system works. Once things bed down and the union tweaks a few parameters as necessary, we will know whether BA will be seen as a long term gig or not.
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Old 30th Oct 2018, 07:44
  #5280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Yep, Easter will have given people four bids under JSS, most will be some way up the learning curve and an overall picture of senority vs. rosters will be emerging.

It is only then that we will have a handle on how much control the new system makes it possible for individuals to really have vs. how many are going to be on blindlines in all but name due to the consequences of Global Constraints/crew repair and the unlocking of rosters.

TBH I’m sceptical as to how much significant tweaking BALPA will be able to do once JSS is in place, so it’s a case of fingers crossed.

Last edited by wiggy; 30th Oct 2018 at 07:59.
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