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Old 4th Dec 2015, 22:46
  #2241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 559
Harry, the post is talking about A320 Command positions and a lack of experienced FOs bidding for them - hence why there are some A320 DEPs with appropriate previous experience, but less than a year in BA, with a successful bid from right to left. I suspect the current focus on long haul recruitment is due to EASA in February. I was recently told that even now, the 747 needs a 25% increase in numbers come February. Apparently we will recruit similar numbers onto the 747 in 2016 as we have in 2015. That will mean more than 40% of the FOs on the fleet will be new DEPs. Incredible really.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 07:41
  #2242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Flaperon75 View Post
I don't think that is correct.

It's 2000 hours for command which goes down 1000 if PIC
I'm afraid no one with 2000 hours is going to get a command. To have 1000 PIC (on an Airbus) at 2000TT would be a statistical impossibility. It's 3500 TT minimum with 3 years and 1500 in BA. If however you exceed the minimum total then you can have a command if you satisfy another of the 3 remaining requirements and not wait the full 3 years. So if you joined with 8000TT and had 1000 PIC on date of joining you could get a command pretty quick!

Hope that clarifies things!
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 08:43
  #2243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 30
Minimum Qualifications for BA Command Clarification

Just to clarify the required minimums for BA Command as few statements I've read on here aren't quite accurate..... It states in the OM-A Section 5.2 that there are 4 boxes of various experience, one of which you must satisfy before commencing a BA Command Course.

'1000 hrs PIC & 2000 hrs in command on civil jet transport greater than 25 tonnes with zero time in BA'I suggest won't apply to many, so we'll bypass that!

Most will fall into this category.....

'2000 hrs on jet transport greater than 25 tonnes or military equivalent, 1 year in BA'.

Being that the most Junior Command on offer is to a DEP with 6 months or so in BA and is at the back end of courses in terms of seniority then he/she will probably have completed close to 18 months in BA by the time the course comes around. It's most likely that the DEP joined BA with at least 500 hrs & still must have an ATPL (1500 hrs) to hold a command in any company as it's the law.

A large majority of DEP's joined with 320 ratings so will have plenty of previous experience... One chap I was safety pilot for on his day one was an ex Easy skipper... & will have 12 months in BA by the time a course arrives. There are some very experienced recent joiners which BA should take full advantage of if there is a course for them in seniority.

The question from ex Turbo Prob colleagues is does a Dash 8 count as 'Jet Transport'?... If it doesn't then '3500hrs total time, 2500 hrs on public transport greater than 12 tonnes or military equivalent & 3 years 1500 hrs in BA will probably catch recent DEP's out....

In Summary of what's turned into a bit of a waffly post....

Yes, if you have just joined BA you can be offered a command course based on your previous experience. Hope this helps.

Rgds BASHLH.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 09:55
  #2244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
I'm afraid no one with 2000 hours is going to get a command. To have 1000 PIC (on an Airbus) at 2000TT would be a statistical impossibility.
But that is not the requirement. "2000 hrs on jet transport greater than 25 tonnes" + "1 year BA experience". It doesn't specify PIC.

So assuming 200 hrs to get fATPL during training and then straight on to A320 with, say, Easyjet, before joining BA, you'd be looking at about 2200 hrs TT minimum for command.

The 1000 PIC is an alternative requirement. Thats how I read it anyway.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 11:27
  #2245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 462
The real question I ask myself is, how is it that no current BA pilots want a short haul command
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 11:41
  #2246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: High n Blighty
Posts: 114
BA skipper pay is 25% more than FO grade. After tax prob no more than 600-700 month for basic grade captains.

Most long haul FOs have 10-15 years min seniority . They are used to their pay grade and position . The are not ambitious and have no desire to sacrifice lifestyle for hammering around europe in the hissing rain . And all those communities to LHR.

If you are ambiguous for command , then nows the time to apply. Wether you make it to the pool only god will know.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 12:59
  #2247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
BA skipper pay is 25% more than FO grade.
BA skipper base pay is 33% more than FO grade

BA FO earns 75% of corresponding pay grade Captains salary
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 13:00
  #2248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by The Crew
If you are ambiguous for command
Classic typo!

Amazing that some will get commands in as many months as some have waited years...
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 13:45
  #2249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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bringback..

The real question I ask myself is, how is it that no current BA pilots want a short haul command
There are probably plenty of current BA pilots who want a short haul command but many don't meet the company requirements. OTOH those that do seem to have been awarded courses.

Remember (?) anyone moving gets hit into the LHS of the A320 gets bit by X year freeze just the time when for the first time in decade there seems to be considerable movement.

...so the LongHaul P2s are hanging on for a Longhaul Right to Left, so they don't want a freeze.

The senior Short haul P2s have got control over their lives and might be in line for a move from Short Haul to Longhaul if not frozen.....they're not going to bid RHS to LHS
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:03
  #2250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
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There are probably plenty of current BA pilots who want a short haul command but many don't meet the company requirements. OTOH those that do seem to have been awarded courses.
When the bid process is run and the courses are awarded, I don't think the requirements (in terms of hours etc) are looked at, hence the line in the results document to 'inform the relevant person if you don't meet the requirements'.

If you look at the awards at the bottom end of the seniority list, EVERYONE who bid for C32 got it. The only exception to this was FPP cadets. There may be people awarded C32 that don't meet the requirements and will have to decline the award.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:13
  #2251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Flaperon

Fair point, however just to be clear I was merely responding to the comment that

how is it that no current BA pilots want a short haul command
...

I suspect looking at the bid results a few actually do....
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:35
  #2252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
I also think there will be A LOT of P2's, especially junior ones, who didn't bother bidding as they wouldn't have thought in a million years that commands would come so low. Having been hovering around the 2000 mark for the last 5 years or so, commands suddenly plummeted down close to 4000 and I think that has caught a lot of people out. Despite the old mantra of 'bid for what you want', I think a lot of people just can't be ar**d to bid if realistically little or no chance of a course/command. Especially those who are still in their 5 year engagement freeze.

This will have been exacerbated by a flt ops manager saying on a company forum, prior to the bid, that he thought short haul commands would be a lot more senior this year (!!)

I've no doubt that any supplementary bid for commands would attract many willing applicants.

Incidentally I also know of a recent joiner who bid for every position in the company. A 'comedy bid', not expecting to get any of them. He was shocked to be awarded a LHR command and doesn't want it. He really wants to go long haul and doesn't now know what to do. If he turns down the command he will be given a penalty freeze. If he takes the command (which he doesn't feel ready for) he will also be frozen on type. Bid for what you want!

Last edited by Flaperon75; 5th Dec 2015 at 16:13.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 15:41
  #2253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
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"Comedy bid" indeed! Who's laughing now?
Doug E Style is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2015, 17:32
  #2254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 91
I'm not entirely convinced it will go more senior again next year either. The effect of EASA FTL's, especially longer duty days starting earlier in the day, remains to be seen. On top of that, our new CEO hails from Vueling and has already expressed an interest in reviewing pilot unit costs. If I was a betting man Id put money on the short haul working environment deteriorating further over the next few years.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 18:16
  #2255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I think a lot of people just can't be ar**d to bid if realistically little or no chance of a course/command.
Is a bid still just the case of writing/typing something like "C32L" or "P77L"? If so, I don't understand why people don't just bid for what they want!? It's hardly a great effort.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 20:36
  #2256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 910
It's not even that complicated: you just click on what you want and then make sure the choices are in the right order! I've always 'bid for what I wanted' and it's worked out* just fine!

*14 years P744 (out of choice, although I always bid for LHS LH, just in case)
4 years C32L (eventually realised LHS LH was still a few years off and wanted to get Command Course out of the way)
C78L (next year, no course date yet)

Luck/timing does come in to it but if you don't bid, you don't stand a chance.

Talking of timing, now is a great time to join!

Last edited by eckhard; 5th Dec 2015 at 20:58.
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 08:59
  #2257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: underground
Posts: 99
More specifically - any roadshows planned for the Middle East or Hong Kong?
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 09:46
  #2258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 173
King Surf,

Did you pass the verbal reasoning test? If so, see me.

Standards have slipped.....

What a strange comment bowly!! Would you care to explain?
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 10:11
  #2259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 480
Oh c'mon ; Kingsurf is ambiguous for a Command and balks at the prospect of getting through all those communities on the way to Heathrow. I look back at Hamble selection and wonder how today's lot would even get past the initial, phase 1 screening.(A funny thing called an Application pro-forma and initial medical). Bring back A.H.,Abbott, Secretary to the Selection Board, you had to get past him first. Oh, he must be 100 now. He didn't like me at Phase 2 because I said "Cripes, I thought all secretaries were girls !" !
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 11:48
  #2260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5
Ppruners,

How stuffed am I? Recently clawed myself into the holdpool. Non Airbus/Boeing 1100 Jet time 1200TT Not gonna get 2000hrs at my airline by the time I drop out next Nov...occasionally reading these forums there seem to be a lot of people in the know with all things BA...just curious as to what some of you think my chances of getting a call are in the next 12 months...
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