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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:03
  #2241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
There are probably plenty of current BA pilots who want a short haul command but many don't meet the company requirements. OTOH those that do seem to have been awarded courses.
When the bid process is run and the courses are awarded, I don't think the requirements (in terms of hours etc) are looked at, hence the line in the results document to 'inform the relevant person if you don't meet the requirements'.

If you look at the awards at the bottom end of the seniority list, EVERYONE who bid for C32 got it. The only exception to this was FPP cadets. There may be people awarded C32 that don't meet the requirements and will have to decline the award.
Flaperon75 is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:13
  #2242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,846
Flaperon

Fair point, however just to be clear I was merely responding to the comment that

how is it that no current BA pilots want a short haul command
...

I suspect looking at the bid results a few actually do....
wiggy is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2015, 14:35
  #2243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
I also think there will be A LOT of P2's, especially junior ones, who didn't bother bidding as they wouldn't have thought in a million years that commands would come so low. Having been hovering around the 2000 mark for the last 5 years or so, commands suddenly plummeted down close to 4000 and I think that has caught a lot of people out. Despite the old mantra of 'bid for what you want', I think a lot of people just can't be ar**d to bid if realistically little or no chance of a course/command. Especially those who are still in their 5 year engagement freeze.

This will have been exacerbated by a flt ops manager saying on a company forum, prior to the bid, that he thought short haul commands would be a lot more senior this year (!!)

I've no doubt that any supplementary bid for commands would attract many willing applicants.

Incidentally I also know of a recent joiner who bid for every position in the company. A 'comedy bid', not expecting to get any of them. He was shocked to be awarded a LHR command and doesn't want it. He really wants to go long haul and doesn't now know what to do. If he turns down the command he will be given a penalty freeze. If he takes the command (which he doesn't feel ready for) he will also be frozen on type. Bid for what you want!

Last edited by Flaperon75; 5th Dec 2015 at 16:13.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 15:41
  #2244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 260
"Comedy bid" indeed! Who's laughing now?
Doug E Style is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2015, 17:32
  #2245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 120
I'm not entirely convinced it will go more senior again next year either. The effect of EASA FTL's, especially longer duty days starting earlier in the day, remains to be seen. On top of that, our new CEO hails from Vueling and has already expressed an interest in reviewing pilot unit costs. If I was a betting man Id put money on the short haul working environment deteriorating further over the next few years.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2015, 18:16
  #2246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: .
Posts: 275
I think a lot of people just can't be ar**d to bid if realistically little or no chance of a course/command.
Is a bid still just the case of writing/typing something like "C32L" or "P77L"? If so, I don't understand why people don't just bid for what they want!? It's hardly a great effort.
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 20:36
  #2247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 65
Posts: 983
It's not even that complicated: you just click on what you want and then make sure the choices are in the right order! I've always 'bid for what I wanted' and it's worked out* just fine!

*14 years P744 (out of choice, although I always bid for LHS LH, just in case)
4 years C32L (eventually realised LHS LH was still a few years off and wanted to get Command Course out of the way)
C78L (next year, no course date yet)

Luck/timing does come in to it but if you don't bid, you don't stand a chance.

Talking of timing, now is a great time to join!

Last edited by eckhard; 5th Dec 2015 at 20:58.
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 08:59
  #2248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: underground
Posts: 97
More specifically - any roadshows planned for the Middle East or Hong Kong?
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Old 6th Dec 2015, 09:46
  #2249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 186
King Surf,

Did you pass the verbal reasoning test? If so, see me.

Standards have slipped.....

What a strange comment bowly!! Would you care to explain?
king surf is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2015, 10:11
  #2250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
Oh c'mon ; Kingsurf is ambiguous for a Command and balks at the prospect of getting through all those communities on the way to Heathrow. I look back at Hamble selection and wonder how today's lot would even get past the initial, phase 1 screening.(A funny thing called an Application pro-forma and initial medical). Bring back A.H.,Abbott, Secretary to the Selection Board, you had to get past him first. Oh, he must be 100 now. He didn't like me at Phase 2 because I said "Cripes, I thought all secretaries were girls !" !
Landflap is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2015, 11:48
  #2251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5
Ppruners,

How stuffed am I? Recently clawed myself into the holdpool. Non Airbus/Boeing 1100 Jet time 1200TT Not gonna get 2000hrs at my airline by the time I drop out next Nov...occasionally reading these forums there seem to be a lot of people in the know with all things BA...just curious as to what some of you think my chances of getting a call are in the next 12 months...
Holdpoolin is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2015, 12:51
  #2252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: s england
Posts: 192
fly4more,
What does 'sipping coffee intently' mean?
sudden twang is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2015, 14:03
  #2253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 30
Holdpoolin,

Congratulations on getting into the hold pool.

There are many positives to sites like PPRuNe for sharing information, however it is a rumour network so there fore don't trust everything that is typed.

I'm not in the know of how the next 350/400 pilots for 2016 will be recruited but obviously there is a great need for LH NOW... That's not to say that non type rated holdpoolers are now not required. The facts are that there is a great deal of movement internally, nearly everyone of my 2011 batch are leaving the 320 for LH or seat change... We have to be replaced which is why the company are rigidly sticking to the 5 year engagement freeze (bar C32L/X). BA have run out of internal 'unfrozen' bidders hence the need for LH DEP's. I'm quite sure we will then require 320 DEP's type rated or not, as not all the 350/400 new pilots will go to LH... It's just a question of when. FACT we need pilots so your in as positive a situation as you could be in.... Don't believe posters who say we don't need you, how do they know? I don't & I'm not even sure BA know.... Things change very quickly.....

LC is a very trusted manager, he is one of only a few that know the plan for the next few months. I'm sure they are working on a plan... You just might be towards the end of that plan!

My Advice would be to Stay positive, & stay in touch with the recruitment team every couple of months... If I hear any further Facts then I will of course post.

Rgds BASHLH
BASHLH is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2015, 14:19
  #2254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 186
Oh c'mon ; Kingsurf is ambiguous for a Command and balks at the prospect of getting through all those communities on the way to Heathrow. I look back at Hamble selection and wonder how today's lot would even get past the initial, phase 1 screening.(A funny thing called an Application pro-forma and initial medical). Bring back A.H.,Abbott, Secretary to the Selection Board, you had to get past him first. Oh, he must be 100 now. He didn't like me at Phase 2 because I said "Cripes, I thought all secretaries were girls !" !
Landflap is offline Report Post

You totally lost me? i seem to remember writing a post as to what life was like as a junior skipper at LHR and nothing more.
king surf is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2015, 10:00
  #2255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
KINGSURF ; Oooops, sorry. I was commenting on a post by THE CREW. Spotted yours that seemed to go the same way. Apologies. Thought I was being entertaining. Story of my life. Staying in today.
Landflap is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2015, 22:25
  #2256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5
BASHLH,

Thanks, hopefully the next 12 months won't be too agonising! Appreciate you giving a heads up on anything you manage to find out, in the mean time I shall be in contact with recruitment as frequently as possible without being an outright nuisance!
Holdpoolin is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2015, 06:53
  #2257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 320
Hello

Regarding the leave. I gather its bid for 6 months in advance and over 2 bid seasons, and that you have 6 weeks allotted including the un worked weeks. A few questions:-

1/ Is it possible to achieve 3 blocks of leave in each season or are you restricted to one 2 week block and one single week?

2/ If you have a weeks leave of 7 days are there any "wrap around" days attached to the 7 days off in lieu of normal days off?

3/ How does a month with leave affect your requirement to achieve CAP? Does leave count towards CAP.

Many thanks.
Wireless is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2015, 08:00
  #2258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
To answer the leave questions:

Leave at LHR is two weeks a season, with a duty free week

You can take these in blocks of a single week or as a two week block, you could, in theory, put the DFW up against the leave block of two weeks.

The leave blocks have 3 wrap days attached to them meaning that you can make the week into 10 days.

Leave and the DFW attract the daily rate of CAP. So divide monthly cap by the days in the month and you attract that much credit per day on leave and DFW

Wrap days and DFWs can be worked in, leave cannot.

Leave is bid for but is not seniority based. Each leave block has an attached value in points. This adds to your pot. More attractive leave blocks earn less points. When the leave bids are allocated, the highest points gets the leave allocated first.

Points last for (i think) 8 years, so after that time the points you earned 9 years ago are wiped - but the points for the last 8 years remain.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2015, 13:11
  #2259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 320
Many thanks for answering JT.
Wireless is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2015, 11:32
  #2260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 188
Just to clarify the required minimums for BA Command as few statements I've read on here aren't quite accurate..... It states in the OM-A Section 5.2 that there are 4 boxes of various experience, one of which you must satisfy before commencing a BA Command Course.

'1000 hrs PIC & 2000 hrs in command on civil jet transport greater than 25 tonnes with zero time in BA'I suggest won't apply to many, so we'll bypass that!

Most will fall into this category.....

'2000 hrs on jet transport greater than 25 tonnes or military equivalent, 1 year in BA'.
I read it as "1+3" rather than "1 of 4" boxes. So 3500 TT etc, then including one of the next three criteria.

The instructions in the Annual Bid document states the same. Otherwise, some of our early FPP chaps could easily have 2000hrs plus one year in BA come the start of their command course, but they've all been denied.
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