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Old 25th Nov 2015, 10:03
  #2181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Not just me finds that matrix strangely written and a bit of a puzzle then , and almost impossible to put into text format here.

if you join as DEP (having flown, say, an Airbus for someone else as P2) you need 2000 hours for command.
Unless you have 1000 hours in command time on the 320, in which case you're in the frame for a right to left immediately . Then again I guess if you've got 1000 P1 you'll have the >2000 hours on the airframe

That said whilst its worth knowing the numbers required, and therefore knowing what is possible, I would not assume low time commands are going to become the norm. I rather suspect that the results of this year's annual type/seat bid will act as a bit of a wake up call to those who didn't think it was worth bidding for a command this year (I actually suspect there more than a few people going around kicking themselves or the cat over this year's results). Then again in twelve months time I'll no doubt be proven wrong - again.....

I agree with you about the inequalities...

And yes, well done bex
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 10:24
  #2182 (permalink)  
 
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Or, it could be just that those with no seniority on the A320 are the only ones with nothing to lose swapping seats.

If you have a couple of years, then you can probably/maybe get out of short haul soon.....
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 11:52
  #2183 (permalink)  
 
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it could be just that those with no seniority on the A320 are the only ones with nothing to lose swapping seats.
That's true to some extent, but if normal bidding patterns return in the future years anyone very junior going Right to Left on the 320 this year is potentially going to spend a heck of a long time at or near the bottom of the status list.
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 12:00
  #2184 (permalink)  
 
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There are absolutely staggering numbers of people going from right to left on the Airbus. I counted over 115 people getting commands who've yet to serve 5 years in the company. With those numbers I can't see how they can afford to release any FO off to long haul.

The recruitment team are gearing up for road shows looking for DEPs onto LH.
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 12:08
  #2185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
anyone very junior going Right to Left on the 320 this year is potentially going to spend a heck of a long time at or near the bottom of the status list.
I think that's quite an important point actually. Bottom of the list on short haul is about as bad as it gets with a life of permanent blind lines and working every weekend. Perhaps survivable for a year or so (as would be the normal run of events) but for 5 years plus!?

I wonder if the junior bods who bid for C32L gave that much thought. More money etc but at what price!
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 12:18
  #2186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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With very short time to command, A320 is probably becoming a lot more relevant for a lot of current Ezy captains. Assuming 2-3 years from joining to command, what sort of salary are you looking at then? All the references I could find have been for FOs and PPJN has information from 2008.
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 12:27
  #2187 (permalink)  
 
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All the references I could find have been for FOs and PPJN has information from 2008.
I'm not surprised, I don't think anyone has ever really thought about, let alone published in the public domain, the basic of BA captains on Paypoints 1-4 ish........

I'm sure the truth really is out there...ll see if I can find anything.

edit to add: found these from 2013 , A320 LHR captain basic, points 1-5 with PP1 at top, in STG

69,092
70,965
72,839
74,712
76,586

Last edited by wiggy; 25th Nov 2015 at 12:38.
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 12:51
  #2188 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you, Wiggy. Am sure more than just me are interested in the numbers for the decision making, although BA is for lifestyle.
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Old 25th Nov 2015, 13:34
  #2189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Captain 34 point pay scale on SH valid 2015

Year 1 72,092 GBP
Year 5 79,912 GBP
Year 10 89,687GBP

In addition you get Flight duty pay 660gbp (?) per month, plus allowances which is 1000-1500per month depending on how hard you work.
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 08:06
  #2190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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BA is, indeed, a good choice for lifestyle. But not if you take an airbus command after 2 or 3 years (even if you think this will be possible, which I'm not convinced about in future years).

All that is going to happen next year is that a lot of senior people are going to take another look at short haul command and realise they are suddenly a lot more senior, relatively, than they would have been this year.

As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:10
  #2191 (permalink)  

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As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
What is the seat freeze duration? 5 years again?

Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:48
  #2192 (permalink)  
 
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They can indeed bid back to the RHS of a long haul fleet at a later date. This is what a lot of people used to do until the NAPS command taxation made it a really financially foolish thing to do. One of the reasons short haul commands have gone so junior is that NAPS members are unwilling to sit in short haul as a Captain for an unknown period of time (waiting for a long haul command), and they no longer have the option of going right to left more than once due to the taxation penalty being applied twice if you do.

For those asking about command pay scales, FO payscales are 75% of Captain's pay at all paypoints and on all fleets. It is very simple.
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:54
  #2193 (permalink)  
 
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Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
FWIW I do know of at least one very well thought out voluntary LHS to RHS on the same fleet. However it was a few years ago, before pensions and tax got so complicated and was done very late on in the individual's career.

I think doing it these days, and in mid career, would expose the individual to the sorts of financial penalties that GS-Alpha has highlighted .
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 15:48
  #2194 (permalink)  
 
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2015 captain scales on PP34

1) 72092
5) 79912
10) 89687
20) 109236
34) 136605

Last edited by OBK!; 26th Nov 2015 at 17:04. Reason: Calculations incorrect as mentioned!
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 16:12
  #2195 (permalink)  
 
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The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about 4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted 1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
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Old 26th Nov 2015, 16:23
  #2196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Angels 99 View Post
The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about 4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted 1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
Completely agree. Short Haul flying pay about 8k pa and monthly allowances 600 - 900 per month on short haul depending on number of night stops
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 16:53
  #2197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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I imagine it's for varied reasons, but why has BA shorthaul (especially commands it seems) become so unpopular v LH over the last couple of years. The basic job (plenty of nightstops around Europe, slightly less pay v LH, earlies, etc.) has not changed much as far as I know. Is it just the increased "efficiency" (workload) alone or other factors?

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 27th Nov 2015 at 21:59.
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 00:34
  #2198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 37
Posts: 29
Question Interview dates

Can anyone help with interview booking.... the site only offers a few dates just within the next couple of weeks. Does this mean that these are the only dates that will be available to me, or if I wait will further dates become available in the future e.g. in January?

Thanks!
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 06:17
  #2199 (permalink)  
 
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ManUtd1999

In the absence of an authoritative reply to your post so far from one of the short haul people on here the best I can do is give you an idea of the main grumbles that get aired, either verbally or on another forum:

1. Short haul moved onto EASA compliant FTLs a while back, so yes, "efficiences" seem to have played a part.

2. As part of yet another round of cost savings BALPA agreed a change in the "Duty rig" for shorthaul, which seems to have meant short haul pilots are doing long duty days hanging around in the bowels in T5 between sectors with no increase in pay/flying.

3. Short haul get an almost daily clobbering by the BA LHR lifestyle...aircraft changes and /or terminal changes/security

4. The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......

I must emphasise that's my perception of what in the main has precipitated the current state of affairs, as a Long Hauler who has talked to Long Haul P2s about the how's and why's of their bidding logic. It will be interesting to see what the the guys who are actually "living the dream" think..

Last edited by wiggy; 28th Nov 2015 at 09:41.
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 10:36
  #2200 (permalink)  
 
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The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......
Pretty much hit's the nail on the head for me too.

I would also add that as the LHS demographic for LH fleets is toward the younger end, thanks in part to the Prestwick cadets, then the older SFO's on the LH fleets wouldn't see a move back from LHS SH to LHS LH in their time.

Lifestyle choices are shaping many more peoples careers now days rather than the 'climb to command' greasy pole (certainly a large majority of those SFO's with previous Command experience!).
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