Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:10
  #2181 (permalink)  

Mach 3
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
What is the seat freeze duration? 5 years again?

Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
SR71 is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:48
  #2182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 684
They can indeed bid back to the RHS of a long haul fleet at a later date. This is what a lot of people used to do until the NAPS command taxation made it a really financially foolish thing to do. One of the reasons short haul commands have gone so junior is that NAPS members are unwilling to sit in short haul as a Captain for an unknown period of time (waiting for a long haul command), and they no longer have the option of going right to left more than once due to the taxation penalty being applied twice if you do.

For those asking about command pay scales, FO payscales are 75% of Captain's pay at all paypoints and on all fleets. It is very simple.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2015, 10:54
  #2183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
FWIW I do know of at least one very well thought out voluntary LHS to RHS on the same fleet. However it was a few years ago, before pensions and tax got so complicated and was done very late on in the individual's career.

I think doing it these days, and in mid career, would expose the individual to the sorts of financial penalties that GS-Alpha has highlighted .
wiggy is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2015, 15:48
  #2184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 518
2015 captain scales on PP34

1) 72092
5) 79912
10) 89687
20) 109236
34) 136605

Last edited by OBK!; 26th Nov 2015 at 17:04. Reason: Calculations incorrect as mentioned!
OBK! is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2015, 16:12
  #2185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 27
The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about 4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted 1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
Angels 99 is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2015, 16:23
  #2186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by Angels 99 View Post
The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about 4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted 1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
Completely agree. Short Haul flying pay about 8k pa and monthly allowances 600 - 900 per month on short haul depending on number of night stops
Flaperon75 is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2015, 16:53
  #2187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 282
I imagine it's for varied reasons, but why has BA shorthaul (especially commands it seems) become so unpopular v LH over the last couple of years. The basic job (plenty of nightstops around Europe, slightly less pay v LH, earlies, etc.) has not changed much as far as I know. Is it just the increased "efficiency" (workload) alone or other factors?

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 27th Nov 2015 at 21:59.
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 00:34
  #2188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 38
Posts: 29
Question Interview dates

Can anyone help with interview booking.... the site only offers a few dates just within the next couple of weeks. Does this mean that these are the only dates that will be available to me, or if I wait will further dates become available in the future e.g. in January?

Thanks!
Pilot Chris is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 06:17
  #2189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
ManUtd1999

In the absence of an authoritative reply to your post so far from one of the short haul people on here the best I can do is give you an idea of the main grumbles that get aired, either verbally or on another forum:

1. Short haul moved onto EASA compliant FTLs a while back, so yes, "efficiences" seem to have played a part.

2. As part of yet another round of cost savings BALPA agreed a change in the "Duty rig" for shorthaul, which seems to have meant short haul pilots are doing long duty days hanging around in the bowels in T5 between sectors with no increase in pay/flying.

3. Short haul get an almost daily clobbering by the BA LHR lifestyle...aircraft changes and /or terminal changes/security

4. The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......

I must emphasise that's my perception of what in the main has precipitated the current state of affairs, as a Long Hauler who has talked to Long Haul P2s about the how's and why's of their bidding logic. It will be interesting to see what the the guys who are actually "living the dream" think..

Last edited by wiggy; 28th Nov 2015 at 09:41.
wiggy is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 10:36
  #2190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,251
The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......
Pretty much hit's the nail on the head for me too.

I would also add that as the LHS demographic for LH fleets is toward the younger end, thanks in part to the Prestwick cadets, then the older SFO's on the LH fleets wouldn't see a move back from LHS SH to LHS LH in their time.

Lifestyle choices are shaping many more peoples careers now days rather than the 'climb to command' greasy pole (certainly a large majority of those SFO's with previous Command experience!).
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 14:55
  #2191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 379
wiggy and Wirb have it about right.

Beyond the Prestwick cadets, there is also another bulge of cadets from the late 90s who are now starting to achieve longhaul commands. Some are not even 40, giving up to 25 years in the left seat of a longhaul jet, starting now.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 15:41
  #2192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 470
Can't argue with any of the above. As a SH RHS to LHS move in 2016 I agree with everything that is being said. My reason behind staying on SH when I have the seniority to go LH RHS again is a lifestyle one. With youngish children and 32 years till retirement right now I would like to be at home a bit more. I don't mind the SH life but it is hard. I plan on going 75% in a few years. By doing that my take home pay will be more or less the same as now but I will be there for my family. In the long future ahead I may then bid LH RHS once the kids have grown up to enjoy the travel with my misses with a view to a short wait to a LH LHS.

That's the plan but if that actually pans out I would be quite surprised.
bex88 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 15:56
  #2193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715
Wiggy's point 4 sums it up for me too. Looking at the bid results most of the 2011 intake (the most junior unfrozen bidders) have chosen to go to LH, and the 2011 DEPs onto the 747 have also elected to stay LH. So that's an entire years worth of recruits who (mainly) have decided against a SH command.

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest high and middle seniority LH P2s' are sitting tight. They have a combination of a good income with a more sustainable workload and lifestyle. Let's see what changes come in the next few years with Easa and BA "optimisation".

Judging by the comments on the company forum it has bruised a few egos amongst one or two SH captains who obviously feel their position should be aspired to by every lowly co-pilot! The reality is people have bid for what they want, and right now in BA, short haul is proving deeply unpopular.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 16:27
  #2194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 282
Cheers for the replies guys, informative as ever
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 19:57
  #2195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 188
I am a junior Capt. Short haul.
Yes I am well paid 6k net a month,nice Hotels, 3.39 an hour down route.
However the work is relentless with all the associated issues of LHR. no tug,no busses,no stand guidance etc etc.
iF you want a weekend off then forget it or a special day off is pure chance although pre ops do try to accommodate.
Personally I have had 6 weekends off in 18 months,with some of my colleagues none in 2 years.
Social life is limited. For example on my current 5 day 12 sector tour we have had 9 different cabin crew. Down route is generally a beer and a pizza with your colleague so don't expect much else.
Ba is not a place that you will make friends as the place is so big. Nobody knows who you are but that can be a positive as well.
Everyone is different and some thrive on the hard work and if current FO's choose to stay on long haul then it's their choice.
For me, I am in my bed or a hotel bed every night and when I finish at Lhr say at 9pm and see all,the long haul,flights going off I just think to myself I will have driven home,had 8 hours sleep,had breakfast,walked the dog had a coffee and the long haul guys are still in the air!!
Their is no doubt that nights out of bed are damaging to your health combined with the huge changes in time zone the trouble is that you don't realise the damage it does long term.
I appreciate the last para is off topic but I just wanted to give my reasons for putting up,with short haul. Less money yes, more crap to put up,with at Lhr, yes ,but like I said everyone is different and for me it's my health that's number one.
king surf is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 20:07
  #2196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 470
King surf.....if there were a like button I would press it for that post
bex88 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 20:20
  #2197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: the edge of reason
Posts: 208
Frankly, those trying to second guess "the state of the nation" in 5 years time are simply dreaming. things change all the time and at a rapid pace.
Bottom line is, if you want to work for BA then give it your best shot. If you are sceptical, or feel that only one part of BA would suit you, then forget it!
As with many companies the most verbose will make their feelings known whilst the silent majority will just get on with the job, knowing that things will inevitably change, sometimes for the better sometimes not!
Bengerman is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 20:35
  #2198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Hi King surf

Genuine question from interest and not meant to sound synical. But what you describe of BA short haul doesn't sound terribly good for your health either. How many night stops do you do a month? Did you previously come from the long haul side of things before to make your comparison?

I'm not BA, but I can sympathise with the jet lag concern. It knackers me. It knackers everyone. Its the big bit of the job that worries me health wise along woth being zapped by radiation and breathing compressor air for hours. The other bit I don't like is very long trips. Other than that I prefer long haul over any short haul. Only for now.

On BA long haul are the layovers majority min rest or any 2 days plus?
Cliff Secord is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2015, 21:02
  #2199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 188
Hi cliff, Yes I have done long haul and night freigt and I feel sooooo much better doing short haul but would admit to getting tired but so is my neighbour who gets up at 5 am 5 days a week and gets home at 7 pm.
I probably do 7to 10 night stops a month with most night stops being 13-17 hours off. Occasional stand overs with 30 hours off.
king surf is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 08:12
  #2200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: About 5000ft on a nice clear day, ideally!
Posts: 36
Holdpool

Hi All,

Does anyone have any news of movement in the Holdpool? Are courses being offered and if so, when and on what? Also current number of swimmers and time in the pool?

Cheers
Stall-turn-Go is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.