BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[binsleepen]

Hi all,

Time to command in BA is presently about 6 months.

Regards

[wiggy]

Yep, not sure of "time in" but just the seniority number of the individual involved has caused more than a few jaws to drop ( mine included).

There will now no doubt be the debate about exactly why it has happened ( I suspect we can probably work it out why there was a lack of interest from many), but even so it looks like the old adage of bidding for what you want, or simply having a "punt", regardless of freeze, has had interesting consequences. I wonder how many of the slightly more senior are kicking themselves.......

[binsleepen]

at the moment it is a pulse and a hole in the proverbial

[wiggy]

Certainly looks a bit like that.

Looking at the experience required matrix in the Ops manual (health warning - which I may be completely missreading) it looks to me that as long as the pilot has 1000 hours command on the type in question then it is a case of ticking some licence/admin boxes and then passing the BA command course - which is certainly not a "given".............(there are other experience criteria, but that's probably the "fastest" track)

It will take time to see whether this is a "black swan" event precipitated by the current grumbles about short haul or whether the trend towards v junior short haul commands will continue. It will also be interesting to see if the individual actually gets to do his/her course, given the way the training programme changes over the year.

[no sponsor]

The annual bid results are out now, so I'm assuming course dates will be forthcoming, and as a result, joining dates.

[RexBanner]

However, how many of these 350 jobs are likely to be coming to fruition given the situation in the world right now. Events taking place this morning have just escalated things further!

[GS-Alpha]

I can't see us scaling back recruitment plans for the coming year. The only question now - will the guys who have been given long haul instead of short haul be miffed because their A320 new entrant colleagues are getting commands within a year? Ha ha ha

[wiggy]

Good point GS, though before there's too much noise it's worth emphasising that this sub-one year time to command is only potentially be available to a few DEPs, and will only be repeated if this year's bidding pattern carries forward.

[binsleepen]

Hi all,

It's worth also noting that no part time contracts were offered this year. This means that there is a large amount of work that current pilots want to give up but can't. This will require more recruits next year to pick up this work.

Regards

[GS-Alpha]

No 'aspirational' part time is being granted but given the rumour of 700+ pilots applying for 'right to request', I don't think anyone expected 'aspirational' part time to get a look in this year. I think you will find unprecidented numbers of pilots will be getting part time in 2016...

[bex88]

Command requires 3500 total hours of which 2000 on AC <12t and 1500 BA hours.

2000hrs on aircraft <25t and 1 year in BA or 1000 P1 on type.

Bid for what you want. Two years ago I told people it would take me another 8 years or so for a command. Now I find myself being told I have an approved command bid and that I best get working because I will be getting a course.

In fairness I can see why people have not wanted it because the last 2-3 years has been a hard grind...........75% please

[ATTCS armed]

Well done Bex!

[Flaperon75]

Command requires 3500 total hours of which 2000 on AC <12t and 1500 BA hours.

2000hrs on aircraft <25t and 1 year in BA or 1000 P1 on type.

Should there be another 'or' in there. Essentially if you join as DEP (having flown, say, an Airbus for someone else as P2) you need 2000 hours for command. Is that correct? You only need the 3500 if your hours are on smaller things.

Edited to add I think your < should be a >

[wiggy]

Not just me finds that matrix strangely written and a bit of a puzzle then , and almost impossible to put into text format here.

if you join as DEP (having flown, say, an Airbus for someone else as P2) you need 2000 hours for command.

Unless you have 1000 hours in command time on the 320, in which case you're in the frame for a right to left immediately . Then again I guess if you've got 1000 P1 you'll have the >2000 hours on the airframe

That said whilst its worth knowing the numbers required, and therefore knowing what is possible, I would not assume low time commands are going to become the norm. I rather suspect that the results of this year's annual type/seat bid will act as a bit of a wake up call to those who didn't think it was worth bidding for a command this year (I actually suspect there more than a few people going around kicking themselves or the cat over this year's results). Then again in twelve months time I'll no doubt be proven wrong - again.....

I agree with you about the inequalities...

And yes, well done bex

[Tourist]

Or, it could be just that those with no seniority on the A320 are the only ones with nothing to lose swapping seats.

If you have a couple of years, then you can probably/maybe get out of short haul soon.....

[wiggy]

it could be just that those with no seniority on the A320 are the only ones with nothing to lose swapping seats.

That's true to some extent, but if normal bidding patterns return in the future years anyone very junior going Right to Left on the 320 this year is potentially going to spend a heck of a long time at or near the bottom of the status list.

[no sponsor]

There are absolutely staggering numbers of people going from right to left on the Airbus. I counted over 115 people getting commands who've yet to serve 5 years in the company. With those numbers I can't see how they can afford to release any FO off to long haul.

The recruitment team are gearing up for road shows looking for DEPs onto LH.

[Flaperon75]

Originally Posted by wiggy

anyone very junior going Right to Left on the 320 this year is potentially going to spend a heck of a long time at or near the bottom of the status list.

I think that's quite an important point actually. Bottom of the list on short haul is about as bad as it gets with a life of permanent blind lines and working every weekend. Perhaps survivable for a year or so (as would be the normal run of events) but for 5 years plus!?

I wonder if the junior bods who bid for C32L gave that much thought. More money etc but at what price!

[ReallyAnnoyed]

With very short time to command, A320 is probably becoming a lot more relevant for a lot of current Ezy captains. Assuming 2-3 years from joining to command, what sort of salary are you looking at then? All the references I could find have been for FOs and PPJN has information from 2008.

[wiggy]

All the references I could find have been for FOs and PPJN has information from 2008.

I'm not surprised, I don't think anyone has ever really thought about, let alone published in the public domain, the basic of BA captains on Paypoints 1-4 ish........

I'm sure the truth really is out there...ll see if I can find anything.

edit to add: found these from 2013 , A320 LHR captain basic, points 1-5 with PP1 at top, in STG

69,092
70,965
72,839
74,712
76,586