BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 26
From: Hundred Acre Wood
...or a tug, or your TSAT, or a stand, or for the stand guidance to be turned on, or for the jetty to arrive, or for steps, busses, ground power, hi-lift for wheelchair passengers etc.... Waiting for stuff is a HUGE part of being a Nigel. The impatient need not apply...
Last edited by Doug E Style; 16th June 2014 at 10:53.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: The Wood
This 'force drafting' is a bit of a bugger in BA isn't it?! To clarify - does it mean they can give you 24 hours notice on any day off that you will be working instead of having a day off? I've heard several mates bitching about it.
Is it also true that SH captains are bidding back to the RHS of long haul?
Is it also true that SH captains are bidding back to the RHS of long haul?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
SinBin
WBF
In a nutshell and roughly speaking -yes. It is part and parcel of the bidline system - the justification for it goes along the lines that "if you, the pilots want a preference bidding system/Bidline then we, the company, need an emergency mechanism to catering for uncovered work." Now according to the rule set it's meant to be a "random and infrequent" process, and it used to be so - uncovered work was generally picked up pilots bidding for overtime or by those on Reserve & standby. Problem is that recently for some (mainly but not exclusively the short haul P2s) it has become anything but "random and infrequent".....as reasons for that happening..
WBF
....does it mean they can give you 24 hours notice on any day off that you will be working instead of having a day off?
Last edited by wiggy; 14th June 2014 at 04:26.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Normally a pilot in his reserve month will have some home standby yes. At the moment I think our reserve lines are working flat out and any holes are covered by force draft. Arrived at 11pm on Thursday night onto the C gates to find a manager.......for the skipper who is seriously high up in the company. Everyone is at risk of draft right now so for summer it's best to consider yourself as at work or on standby. Days off don't exist
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 224
Likes: 24
From: Hongkong
Sweetener
All this sounds draconian, but what hasn't been mentioned is that 'force draft' attracts double overtime rates - or certainly it used to - which helps to swallow the pill. Also you have to stay legal, 1 day off after 7 etc, so you could end up losing a trip that was on your original roster and someone else would be drafted for that....It must still be cheaper for the company to be able to get a fully qualified crewman 'off the street' so to speak with no additional pension/holiday/training costs, or they wouldn't do it!
Additionally if you want the time off for a mundane project that needs completing - say decorating a room - then a forced draft or two would allow you to GSI (get someone in) the project and still leave you in profit.
Additionally if you want the time off for a mundane project that needs completing - say decorating a room - then a forced draft or two would allow you to GSI (get someone in) the project and still leave you in profit.
Last edited by Sygyzy; 14th June 2014 at 11:21. Reason: grammar
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Sygyzy
I remember the double time days but believe me it isn't at all like that anymore.
As ETOPS has pointed out it's much less....(1.25 or 1.5 rings a bell). In addition rumour has it any Part Timers being drafted seem to be being paid single time - I believe that one is going to tribunal. Factor in the taxman's hit on those payments to anyone in the higher tax bands, and also the (controversial) changes to Flying pay/flying allowance and many people will tell you that these days draft is not at all lucrative...what you're left with sure as heck won't pay to GSI in the SE UK. Time off is the new currency and some in the company seem to have some difficulty accepting that fact.
Al
Yes we do....but there have been instances where it appears drafting has been used to protect the standby's, just in case they were needed....(the old Supply Section NCO's excuse some of us will remember from Forces days...)
I remember the double time days but believe me it isn't at all like that anymore.
As ETOPS has pointed out it's much less....(1.25 or 1.5 rings a bell). In addition rumour has it any Part Timers being drafted seem to be being paid single time - I believe that one is going to tribunal. Factor in the taxman's hit on those payments to anyone in the higher tax bands, and also the (controversial) changes to Flying pay/flying allowance and many people will tell you that these days draft is not at all lucrative...what you're left with sure as heck won't pay to GSI in the SE UK. Time off is the new currency and some in the company seem to have some difficulty accepting that fact.
Al
Don't you have people on home standby?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Sygyzy
No worries, and certainly no harm done.
It's probably in the best interests of those researching the DEP scheme that a light has been shone on this aspect of BA pilots' current T&Cs.
Sorry for spreading misinformation.
It's probably in the best interests of those researching the DEP scheme that a light has been shone on this aspect of BA pilots' current T&Cs.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
I know this has been done in the past (the distant past) but could you wonderful BA ladies and gents give us some kind of clue as to what your roster looks like during this turbulent period? Both this month and next? (don't forget to include your seniority and base).
Ta
Ta
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Ok June.
Force drafted then two days off followed by 6 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off (maybe), 6 on 3 off and another 2 on.
Mix of day trips and tours. 10 nights away from home. Mixture of earlier and lates but in blocks rather than mixed.
Force drafted then two days off followed by 6 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off (maybe), 6 on 3 off and another 2 on.
Mix of day trips and tours. 10 nights away from home. Mixture of earlier and lates but in blocks rather than mixed.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Who knows!
Not my own roster, but a random example of the most junior of the most junior fleet on a blind lines:
2 on 2 off, 4 on 3off, 3 on 1 off, 1 on 2off, 5 on 2 off, 4 on 1 off.
Mostly trips and mostly early starts, though this is isn't an indication of what a junior person can expect as it varies hugely. You can however expect to be working most, if not all weekends at the moment as a junior P2.
2 on 2 off, 4 on 3off, 3 on 1 off, 1 on 2off, 5 on 2 off, 4 on 1 off.
Mostly trips and mostly early starts, though this is isn't an indication of what a junior person can expect as it varies hugely. You can however expect to be working most, if not all weekends at the moment as a junior P2.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
would that mean junior trash would get a better rostering experience than they have today? What is the likely outcome of all this and what would that look like for all?
Basically it's wait and see
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: UK
I don't think anyone can say with any certainty what our rostering agreement is going to look like. At the moment it's RosterMax, with minimum time off and one weekend, two if you're very lucky.
We spend a lot of time at work, but not working. Departmental politics means that hours 'in the office' is a benchmark with other areas of the business. This can lead to frustrating sitting about in airless canteens, while on other days you have an impossible schedule to meet with long journeys between aircraft and little over an hour between chocks.
No-one is prepared to arrange for you, the crew, and the airplane to be coordinated for the day. Our needs are just not on the radar.
The money is good but not great, the UK tax regime is outrageous and punitive, extra work is not rewarding, and as we have seen - not necessarily voluntary.
Yes it's still one of the best jobs in aviation, but aviation is not the best job in the World anymore. I'm sooooh tired. Don't know how long I can keep this up.
We spend a lot of time at work, but not working. Departmental politics means that hours 'in the office' is a benchmark with other areas of the business. This can lead to frustrating sitting about in airless canteens, while on other days you have an impossible schedule to meet with long journeys between aircraft and little over an hour between chocks.
No-one is prepared to arrange for you, the crew, and the airplane to be coordinated for the day. Our needs are just not on the radar.
The money is good but not great, the UK tax regime is outrageous and punitive, extra work is not rewarding, and as we have seen - not necessarily voluntary.
Yes it's still one of the best jobs in aviation, but aviation is not the best job in the World anymore. I'm sooooh tired. Don't know how long I can keep this up.