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Old 21st Oct 2015, 11:33
  #1981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
They could start by actually doing some command training. The current system fails miserably in providing actual command training, they are good at telling you you are not acting as a captain, but that is about it.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 11:54
  #1982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
If the rumour is correct ( and it's very much if....), just for the heck of it I'll add my ten cents worth.

Take a 10-12 year in SH P2. Suddenly there's movement on the lists on all fleets .... he ( /she.) is faced with the options of either:

1. Bidding for a Shorthaul command, which means an extra stripe, a pay rise, but an element of jeopardy, a possible one off tax hit ( any BARPers care to comment - re annual allowance), moving back to the bottom of a shorthaul status list with all that entails, and a post command freeze on type for several years

or

2. Not Bidding at all/only bidding for long haul RHS, and accept the risk of being a senior shorthaul P2 for perhaps just one or two more years.

I guess it's how much the individual want the extra stripe - guess we'll know for certain what's going on in the next few days.

Last edited by wiggy; 21st Oct 2015 at 12:06.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:42
  #1983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London
Posts: 8
Wiggy, As a BARPer LH P2 who has bid for a SH LHR command, there is no worry re exceeding the annual allowance. My pension contributions will increase as will BAs, but they won't double.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:44
  #1984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
ATTCS armed

Thanks for the info, good luck with the bid.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:52
  #1985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Wiggy I'd agree with you if instead of '10-12', you'd said '15-17'. A 10-12 year in pilot has no chance of a long haul command within the next 5 years. Yes there is expansion, yes there are people bidding for part time, yes there are EASA FTLs, and yes people are going to start retiring but seriously? In my last simulator, I had two Captains telling me I'd have a long haul command within two years and that I was being pessimistic. When I asked them had they actually looked at the age demographics versus seniority numbers... Well, you can guess the reply.

More likely, those 10-12 year in FOs have looked at the work patterns at the bottom of the Airbus seniority and have decided they would rather have a life.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:00
  #1986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
G/S

I wasn't implying a 10-12 year SFO was anywhere near a Longhaul command..I was implying he might have the choice of a short haul command or a move to RHS Long haul, sorry if that wasn't clear.

More likely, those 10-12 year in FOs have looked at the work patterns at the bottom of the Airbus seniority and have decided they would rather have a life.
Exactly.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:04
  #1987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Ah I see. Yes that makes a lot more sense.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:58
  #1988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 6
EASA FTLs

I've seen EASA FTLs mentioned in a few posts in this thread where the poster is implying that BA will require more Pilots because of the new regs, implying that productivity per pilot will be reduced.

In my current airline, we have just introduced EASA FTLS and in most cases, particularly long haul, there has been an increase in productivity meaning the company needs, very slightly, less Pilots.

Does anyone have any inside info on what BA anticipate the effect to be?
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 14:46
  #1989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Outta town
Posts: 155
80% guys interviewed pass . Hold pool filling up . Many P2F guys who took the leap to Eastern Europe n wanna now come home to mummy .
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 15:03
  #1990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 818
The numbers stated at the roadshows were around 75 in the hold pool early October. No numbers on rated/non-rated mix.

- approx 50% chopped on Day 1

- 60% pass interview

- 60% pass sim

They stated the overall pass rate is around 1 in 10 and the numbers above give you around 18% so approx 10% are getting the chop between application and day 1.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 20:41
  #1991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 379
jetting,

The problem for BA is that on longhaul it has traditionally relied on pilots being able to operate "back to back" trips in order to cover the work. EASA FTLs largely prevent this (there are exceptions) meaning more bodies are required.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 21:58
  #1992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 864
The whole "acclimatised" thing with EASA is a bit of a red herring as regards to long haul. Aren't long haul pilots advised to stay attuned with their home time zone during trips anyway? Bit difficult with a Sydney of course but certainly doable on a back to back west coast I would have imagined, which is where the problems lie under EASA apparently. We all know EASA regs are completely ridiculous anyway and this is further proof.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 00:03
  #1993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Rexbanner

No, depends on length of layover. If short, in basic terms, yes, that's the advice. Min rest pax operators doing back and forth trips may achieve this with mild success.

But if long layovers its not a matter of choice. Even worse is long haul string freight trips over mulitple time zones. The body can keep up just about for the first two nights on its local clock before it succums to the inevitable.

Jet lag is extremely complex. An oft mis understood subject by shorthaul shift pilots. It's not the same as staying at home and altering your sleep pattern on days and nights. You won't achieve the same results. Sleep deprivation and jet lag aren't the same. Out of phase daylight, the environmental and cultural world around you moving in tune to a different clock, type of meals available at times of the local day. These all affect the brain and can leave you close to ruined by the end of a trip.

It's a big subject and the airline I fly for has almost a book of a manual on jet leg and how to try and cope with it. Try being the operative word. It's always going to be a damaging, unnatural process on the body that you can only do your best with.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 07:43
  #1994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The local
Posts: 111
Have any assessment days happened yet? If so how'd people go with it? What can you expect?
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 20:27
  #1995 (permalink)  
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TOD
Posts: 1,389
I have been told that the format hasn't changed from the accounts previously given. Numerical and verbal reasoning MCQs - time is tight for both. Computer based co-ordination and capacity tests - I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 22:19
  #1996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.
Couldn't disagree more.

The prep is part of the assessment. Unless you're a very clever individual that's naturally gifted at verbal reasoning and computer games with backwards flight directors (I'm certainly not), I would strongly advise putting the leg work in.

With a bit of research and some minor financial investment in some prep software / books (SkyTest and Assessment-day spring to mind) these tests are entirely passable. The capacity test at the end of the first stage is something that can't really be rehearsed but in reality it's only as stressful as dealing with a lengthy non normal in the descent. If you do well in 3 out of 4 then you're probably in with a good chance. (bearing in mind it's an overall score across the 4 different tests on the day)

BA aren't after geniuses or shit hot pilots (if they were I'd still be back flying in LoCo land), just people that will fit in and are prepared to work hard, learn and progress. If you don't want BA enough to do so then you're probably best saving your days off for something more constructive and let someone else have a go.

As for a good nights sleep the night before, absolutely, but cannot be guaranteed. I had an awful nights sleep before 2 out of 3 stages. The hard work prior to attending each stage got me through.

Just my two cents worth.

Evening All

2W2R
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 00:09
  #1997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by speedrestriction View Post
I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.
Absolute tosh. And I am one of those people that has no fear of sims and a lot of "difficult" tasks come relatively easy to me. I spent on average 30-60 minutes per day for 2-3 months preparing for just stage 1. Research, testing, verbal reasoning etc etc etc. Those former colleagues of mine that didn't put in the work are still at my previous employer. Those that did put in the work now (on the main) work for BA. Ask every DEP and if they're honest 90% of them will say they put in the work.

Those that didn't call the tests a pile of crap and totally unnecessary if you have a type rating "why should I be tested I've proved that I can do a course, I never wanted to work for BA anyway"
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 01:21
  #1998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Well aren't you just the bloody great big goat's toe.

Never heard such a self preening pious bunch of complete pompous [email protected]@tery in all my life as displayed during your first two sentances. If one didn't know better, aviation would seem to overflow with this attitude these days. Thank God, there's some normal humble (but extremely capable) people still around. Psychopathic tendencies were supposed to be ruled out by aviation testing. Obviously hasn't worked.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 02:46
  #1999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 169
Oh good another keyboard hero who completely misses the point. Play the man all you like. Meanwhile the ball has gone sailing straight past you.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 10:58
  #2000 (permalink)  
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TOD
Posts: 1,389
Just to clarify: you could of course (and probably should) prepare for the numerical and verbal reasoning tests. What I don't believe you can improve a whole lot is your scoring in the co-ordination and capacity tests; these are more down to your innate ability and I do believe that there is research to support this.

The clue was in the punctuation in my first post.
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