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Old 21st Oct 2015, 07:57
  #1981 (permalink)  
 
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Hints are emerging that there are not enough internal bidders for Airbus commands
How much does that tell you about the state of BA shorthaul I wonder?
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 07:58
  #1982 (permalink)  
 
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Hints are emerging that there are not enough internal bidders for Airbus commands.
Interesting if true....is it worth speculating on why that might be the case

(Drat, Wirbs beat me to it again........)
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 08:59
  #1983 (permalink)  
 
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Timing is everything Wiggy (apparently!)
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 09:17
  #1984 (permalink)  
 
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I think it's a mixture, of long haul FOs waiting for a long haul command and not taking the shorthaul option as that becomes increasingly junior (744 command below 1550 now apparently), the high failure rate of Airbus commands (c.40%??) and the notorious (not in my experience I must add) reputation of the Airbus training department, the shear number of part time requests which have been sought for numerous lifestyle/tax/pension reasons, and the fact that the vast majority of those occupying the right seat of a shorthaul Airbus want to go long haul and fly a big machine, which was part of the reason for joining BA. I don't think it's an undesirable job just yet having just taken the shorthaul command option myself. I think this is positive and reading between the lines I might just find myself back at the golden runways of North Hownslow this following year, which from a BA career aspect is great news.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 09:17
  #1985 (permalink)  
 
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I joined BA wanting to be a short haul pilot forever. I never wanted to fly long haul however I soon realised that short haul flying for an entire career was unsustainable for me. That was at Gatwick over a decade ago!

Short haul SFOs must be pretty desperate to get away if they aren't bidding for short haul commands? Or maybe they are bidding, but allowing them to swap seats only exacerbates the short fall in Airbus FOs. They sure have got themselves into a bit of a pickle. I've heard stories in the past of Walsh saying the best gauge of how unhappy the workforce is, is whether they are are actually leaving. Well I interpret a lack of bidders for short haul commands as people leaving short haul. It's been going on for years! Sadly, I suspect one of the solutions being considered, will be to reduce the paypoint at which SFO pay is frozen. BALPA being BALPA, will agree rather than using this clear signal to sort out the fundamental issues.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 09:32
  #1986 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot imagine that BA BALPA will actually do anything to promote SH lifestyle if it has any impact whatsoever on LH. They have sacrificed SH in the past to protect LH. At BA BALPA should really be known as B(OAC)ALPA.

The only thing that might kick them into action would be SH DEC.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 09:46
  #1987 (permalink)  
 
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It's setting a dangerous precedent, especially with our IAG brothers Veuling rapidly expanding their Airbus fleet and code sharing SH flights from Gatwick.

It makes me wonder how long before the company splits, internally at least, back into effectively BOAC and BEA?
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 10:09
  #1988 (permalink)  
 
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I think a split is inevitable at some point. I've never yet seen the company fail to achieve what it wanted eventually. Usually BALPA gives up something in order to prevent it happening, and then it just happens later on anyway. It is for this reason that I was strongly against the BMI concessions - indeed it was a significant part of why I left the union.

I wonder if they'll change command courses in order to improve the success rate? I know perfectly capable pilots who have been utterly broken by the command course system. It is no wonder that a lot of people would rather just not bother putting themselves through it for the sake of a short haul command.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 10:33
  #1989 (permalink)  
 
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They could start by actually doing some command training. The current system fails miserably in providing actual command training, they are good at telling you you are not acting as a captain, but that is about it.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 10:54
  #1990 (permalink)  
 
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If the rumour is correct ( and it's very much if....), just for the heck of it I'll add my ten cents worth.

Take a 10-12 year in SH P2. Suddenly there's movement on the lists on all fleets .... he ( /she.) is faced with the options of either:

1. Bidding for a Shorthaul command, which means an extra stripe, a pay rise, but an element of jeopardy, a possible one off tax hit ( any BARPers care to comment - re annual allowance), moving back to the bottom of a shorthaul status list with all that entails, and a post command freeze on type for several years

or

2. Not Bidding at all/only bidding for long haul RHS, and accept the risk of being a senior shorthaul P2 for perhaps just one or two more years.

I guess it's how much the individual want the extra stripe - guess we'll know for certain what's going on in the next few days.

Last edited by wiggy; 21st Oct 2015 at 11:06.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 11:42
  #1991 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy, As a BARPer LH P2 who has bid for a SH LHR command, there is no worry re exceeding the annual allowance. My pension contributions will increase as will BAs, but they won't double.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 11:44
  #1992 (permalink)  
 
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ATTCS armed

Thanks for the info, good luck with the bid.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 11:52
  #1993 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy I'd agree with you if instead of '10-12', you'd said '15-17'. A 10-12 year in pilot has no chance of a long haul command within the next 5 years. Yes there is expansion, yes there are people bidding for part time, yes there are EASA FTLs, and yes people are going to start retiring but seriously? In my last simulator, I had two Captains telling me I'd have a long haul command within two years and that I was being pessimistic. When I asked them had they actually looked at the age demographics versus seniority numbers... Well, you can guess the reply.

More likely, those 10-12 year in FOs have looked at the work patterns at the bottom of the Airbus seniority and have decided they would rather have a life.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:00
  #1994 (permalink)  
 
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G/S

I wasn't implying a 10-12 year SFO was anywhere near a Longhaul command..I was implying he might have the choice of a short haul command or a move to RHS Long haul, sorry if that wasn't clear.

More likely, those 10-12 year in FOs have looked at the work patterns at the bottom of the Airbus seniority and have decided they would rather have a life.
Exactly.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:04
  #1995 (permalink)  
 
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Ah I see. Yes that makes a lot more sense.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 12:58
  #1996 (permalink)  
 
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EASA FTLs

I've seen EASA FTLs mentioned in a few posts in this thread where the poster is implying that BA will require more Pilots because of the new regs, implying that productivity per pilot will be reduced.

In my current airline, we have just introduced EASA FTLS and in most cases, particularly long haul, there has been an increase in productivity meaning the company needs, very slightly, less Pilots.

Does anyone have any inside info on what BA anticipate the effect to be?
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:46
  #1997 (permalink)  
 
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80% guys interviewed pass . Hold pool filling up . Many P2F guys who took the leap to Eastern Europe n wanna now come home to mummy .
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 14:03
  #1998 (permalink)  
 
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The numbers stated at the roadshows were around 75 in the hold pool early October. No numbers on rated/non-rated mix.

- approx 50% chopped on Day 1

- 60% pass interview

- 60% pass sim

They stated the overall pass rate is around 1 in 10 and the numbers above give you around 18% so approx 10% are getting the chop between application and day 1.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 19:41
  #1999 (permalink)  
 
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jetting,

The problem for BA is that on longhaul it has traditionally relied on pilots being able to operate "back to back" trips in order to cover the work. EASA FTLs largely prevent this (there are exceptions) meaning more bodies are required.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 20:58
  #2000 (permalink)  
 
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The whole "acclimatised" thing with EASA is a bit of a red herring as regards to long haul. Aren't long haul pilots advised to stay attuned with their home time zone during trips anyway? Bit difficult with a Sydney of course but certainly doable on a back to back west coast I would have imagined, which is where the problems lie under EASA apparently. We all know EASA regs are completely ridiculous anyway and this is further proof.
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