BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[wiggy]

Are there actually more openings, or is this statement simply intended to encourage more applications?

I'm certain there are more openings, but it is all probably down to what jwscud mentioned - the internal shuffle.

Given recent comms (which I can't repost here) it sounds as if the company is still really struggling to come to up with any firm up idea as to DEP/FPP numbers needed and where they will go over the next year, other than it will be into three figures.

[AngioJet]

Whatever the number, the need seems pretty substantial; first time (for the last few years at least) I've seen a banner on this site advertising pilot recruitment at BA...

[Cattivo]

I don't think joining with an A320 rating means you're only going one place at all. Have met a handful of 320-rated new joiners from EZY, Lingus and Monarch who all went 787. Frustrating for seat-frozen SH guys but thems the rules and it all comes out in the wash in the end.

[billybuds]

Originally Posted by Cattivo

I don't think joining with an A320 rating means you're only going one place at all. Have met a handful of 320-rated new joiners from EZY, Lingus and Monarch who all went 787. Frustrating for seat-frozen SH guys but thems the rules and it all comes out in the wash in the end.

Fully agree, on my 747 course none of us had any Boeing or long haul experience.

[GS-Alpha]

I think this year was probably a one off wrt DEPs with just Airbus experience going to the long haul fleets. We've got plenty of currently employed Airbus rated FOs who are desperate to move to long haul. They've so far been denied this opportunity due to an overloaded training department, but I'm not convinced that argument will work for much longer. I have no inside information. I'm simply pointing out that the exceptional circumstances of this past year do not necessarily apply going forwards.

[Approaching Minima]

There have been a few mentions recently of "an October shakeup" and how it's something people are waiting for. As I am not sure what this exatly refers to could someone please explain?

Is it something that happens every October?

[wiggy]

GS,

Reading between lines elsewhere I think you're correct.

I believe the Reps involved in the recruitment arena (who do a good but thankless task most of the time) got a fair amount of "heat" from many incumbent pilots who felt they were disadvantaged by the last round of recruitment. As a result I'm not sure you will see quite as many, if any, DEPs to Longhaul this time round, but then again, I have been known to be wrong on many occasions.....

[GS-Alpha]

Rex

Are you saying your source suggested people will be recruited onto long haul because it is the only position that DEPs with decent experience levels are prepared to sign up for? That suggests to me that short haul T's and Cs need to rise. If BALPA allows recruitment into long haul for this reason, they surely aren't doing their job properly? Short haul commands are already close to becoming so junior that short haul FOs can move right to left on type. What are they going to be told when they want to do that? "Sorry, you're frozen because we can't recruit into your seat. We are giving your Command to that more junior long haul FO who blocked your move to long haul a few years ago." Where will it all stop?

[Rolling24]

Hi Rex
Interested to know where you heard that there are people in the hold pool without the requirements for a ZFTT course? Meeting these requirements through either minimum hours or sectors was needed to apply, as I'm certain you are aware, so it would surprise me if this was the case. Besides the requirements aren't that demanding, especially the sector requirement.

I'm also interested in knowing what the "October shakeup" is all about, has anyone got anymore information on this?

Cheers

[wiggy]

Approaching Minima

I'm also interested in knowing what the "October shakeup"

I suspect it's reference to nothing more sinister or earth shattering than the results of the first "Crystal" run being announced (actually it is pretty significant if you don't get what you want...). That's the computer process that amongst other things churns out the results from the summer bid for internal transfers and AFAIK the list of who is probably going to get what is due end of Oct. The results of that give a clue as to the scale of movement between fleets/seats next training year and might give an indication of the scale of external recruiting.

GS-Alpha

Agree 100% with the sentiments expressed in your previous post. I know some pretty p'd off folks on short haul who had their move to a Long Haul seat blocked last year despite them having the required hours/experience. I am also aware that the main reason given for this was a lack of training capacity, which is down to the company, not the union. Even so I'm not sure the union reps will be able to hold the line for another year if people continue to feel their aspirational move from short haul to long haul is being blocked and they then see DEPs going straight to Long Haul seats.

[Juan Tugoh]

There have been a few mentions recently of "an October shakeup" and how it's something people are waiting for. As I am not sure what this exatly refers to could someone please explain?

Is it something that happens every October?

The "shake up" does indeed happen every year. It is the first output of Crystal. This is not just a process of asking people where they would like to go next, crunching the numbers and determining who is going where. The most important part of the process is the bit where Network Planning and the financial people get together and determine what they would like to achieve next year, what assets they have to achieve their plan and that determines the manpower requirement. Crystal is then run and that shows where people want to go, they "guess" at retirements and other losses like ill-health retirements and the program allocates moves and shows the required recruitment and training slots available. BA will always recruit direct onto LH rather than release an internal freeze as that generates additional training costs.

[EMB-145LR]

Interested to know where you heard that there are people in the hold pool without the requirements for a ZFTT course? Meeting these requirements through either minimum hours or sectors was needed to apply, as I'm certain you are aware, so it would surprise me if this was the case. Besides the requirements aren't that demanding, especially the sector requirement.

Although all of the DEPs come with previous commercial experience and thus can do a ZFT course, we also have plenty of men and women joining from the forces in the hold pool, along with the FPP cadets, all of whom need to do base training.

[uncle peter]

Emb

Not all forces people need to do base training. A large proportion ie coming from multi Eng fleets are ZFT compliant.

[Rolling24]

I see, that explains things. Thanks!

Hopefully all of us in the hold pool will have some news over the coming months then, following the 'shake up'.

Good luck to everyone!

[RexBanner]

Hi guys, deleted my previous posts as its clear they were a bit misleading and caused a bit of confusion with possibly the wrong terminology used. The situation that I was alluding to was that I was led to believe that you needed 3000 hours (including 1000 Jet) to go onto a long haul fleet with ZFT training, which many in the pool don't have. So just that if you're joining with more experience than that you might be surprised, that's all. Anyway I stand to be corrected.

[no sponsor]

The 2011 intake are all unfrozen next year. There's a whole load of Airbus F/Os waiting to go long haul as they can't take the relentless nature of short haul any longer, partly due to the BALPA agreed change to the duty-rig. There are 80 FPPs finishing training, and there's only one fleet they can join.

Denying unfrozen F/Os their place on LH isn't going to go down well.

[Jwscud]

80 FPPs? I though they only took 15-20/year or something like that?

[GS-Alpha]

The initial FPP plan was for 400 over 5 years.

Your last post is a lot clearer Rex thanks. I think all a future more experienced candidate can conclude is that people already in the hold pool will not go to long haul ahead of them. However, I don't think they can say they'll get a long haul place ahead of an unfrozen apirational bidder. The bottom 1/5th of the 747 are new DEPs as it is!

[Approaching Minima]

It must be hard for the airline to balance the business needs for recruitment and also try to meet the fleet transfer requests from the existing pilot workforce. Are this and next year's numbers of 300+ pilots to be recruited each year so extraordinarily high that inevitably less fleet transfers will be granted? The training capacity and costs are too great, surely? Or is BA considered large enough to absorb these extra costs?

What is written in a BA pilot's contract regarding fleet transfer? I assume there is no guarantee after 5 years of having any request granted.

[wiggy]

I assume there is no guarantee after 5 years of having any request granted.

Correct, don't join assuming you will be definitely be able to move fleets after 5 years. You may possibly be able to, but there are absolutely no guarantees.