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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 26th Jun 2015, 08:32
  #1781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,574
Megaton

Final final rosters are so late that arranging childcare is a nightmare. In 10 years I've never been Force Assigned but every month the spectre of Roster Assign rears its head.
A common and I guess justified observation.

For those that don't know what some are complaining about: Under the new system for most fleets the July rosters were finally finalised on or around the the 23rd/24th June. Until then anyone on a fulltime month with no pre-existing duties (e.g Sims) or leave/Duty Free Weeks in the month had absolutely zero visibility of their guaranteed days off in July.

isn't it better to have at least a week's notice to arrange your childcare than no notice at all?
Anson

The old system of being nabbed at short notice (Draft Assign) allowed a bit of wriggle room and an opportunity to avoid if you really had to be at home over the days in question. That avenue has been closed and that seems to be causing some very real problems.

Last edited by wiggy; 26th Jun 2015 at 11:22. Reason: spellin'
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Old 26th Jun 2015, 08:53
  #1782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537
Still, what ho, nothing ventured etc etc.

As long as the Canadian resident BALPA rep is OK, that should be enough to quell any dissent.

What are the odds on him being in management inside the year? Short, I would suggest.
Narrow Runway is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 09:08
  #1783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 609
The biggest problem with the new system is that it enables BA to force overtime on a pilot even though they are already working above CAP. It basically prevents anyone from daring to try to have a bit of time off in one go. Yes you might be lucky and get away with it, but the likelihood is that you will not. Blind lines on long haul with the rules of a minimum of two days off between trips are basically gone, because they just build the roster according to that rule and then adjust it as they see fit once that rule no longer applies at the roster assign phase. Frankly, I don't even know why they bother to produce the final roster for blind line holders. Why tell someone what they could have had under the old system, only to take it away from them a few days later? I was force drafted a fair few times (met at aircraft for work the following day), and I've been roster assigned a fair few times too. I far preferred the old system with a little fear factor after the odd flight, rather than the fear factor every time you make an alteration to a bid; trying to second guess the best strategy to get that one day off you need. Plus this new system allows BA to employ considerably fewer pilots. It really must be a dream come true for them. How else do you think they can afford clash and protect and more!

To add insult to injury, it is now the case that if you volunteer to pick up overtime from EOT, you get paid more than twice what someone who has been forced to work will be paid (clash and protect having become the new norm).

If the majority are happy with this new system then I'd be happier, but I don't believe it to be the case.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 12:15
  #1784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: 30 West
Posts: 58
Still, what ho, nothing ventured etc etc.

As long as the Canadian resident BALPA rep is OK, that should be enough to quell any dissent.

What are the odds on him being in management inside the year? Short, I would suggest.
If your reps are not representing you, which by the sounds of it they are not (losing ground during the leverage period of an experienced pilot shortage), remove them instead of complaining.
Widebdy is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 12:41
  #1785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The wrong timezone
Posts: 206
The old system of being nabbed at short notice (Draft Assign) allowed a bit of wriggle room and an opportunity to avoid if you really had to be at home over the days in question. That avenue has been closed and that seems to be causing some very real problems.
So when you wriggled out of a draft assigned trip, presumably someone with less good excuses would pick it up?
I'm not trying to be flippant btw - just trying to understand the issues.
anson harris is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 13:10
  #1786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 523
Guys, while I find all the imputs very good and useful, to me this thread was to understand wether a pilot with a good (enough) job should consider a move to BA. And I think the answer is quite clear...
Great to live modest, to make the best of it, no fancy watches and cars, but if I'm honest I see this has little to do with joining BA.. 900 hrs is 900 hrs no matter the paint scheme or the type of metal.
If in need of a (good) job though, well that's a whole different story.

All the best
bringbackthe80s is online now  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 13:36
  #1787 (permalink)  
BAP
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: up there some where!
Posts: 75
Well I for one prefer the new system. The old system was fine, if it was used as intended - infrequently and only in exceptional circumstances...

However this wasn't the case at all. It was a constant worry every day when leaving work.
Some of us couldn't use the childcare excuse, and therefore were the ones to pick up the work, despite having holidays, anniversaries, partners birthdays etc. planned...

There are some horror stories of people being called when abroad, only to be forced to return to the UK the next day to work, as they answered their phone by "mistake"

The new system is very similar to every other airline that has a random rostering system. You can request a preference for days off, but you can't be certain until the roster is out.
Good airlines normally publish the roster 2 weeks before the end of the month, but some will delay it to a week before.
So if only BA could speed up the process, then our system would be no different to most other airlines.

It is a great shame the bidline is no longer as it used to be, but everybody needs to know that when they are rostered a day off, that it is indeed a day off.

We can only hope that, when BA has recruited enough, that Forced Assign will be less frequent. Otherwise as I have said before, part-time seems to be the only viable option, if you want a decent life outside work.
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Old 26th Jun 2015, 14:29
  #1788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Here
Posts: 345
I'm a bit confused by this Forced Assign concept, are they forcing you to work a day off, or is this only the case if you answer the phone by mistake?
Threethirty is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 15:29
  #1789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,220
I'm a bit confused by this Forced Assign concept, are they forcing you to work a day off, or is this only the case if you answer the phone by mistake?
The company 'sells' the months work to the pilot community and we, through bidding, agree to achieve the flying programme.

Some people bid high for high credit months and some people bid low. There are always some uncovered trips for which there are those who don't achieve their selected bid or don't place a bid, otherwise known as 'blindline' holders. The company constructs the blindlines from the remaining trips and then allocates them to the blind line holders after both bidding stages are completed.

The new 'Force Assign' stage takes any uncovered trips after stage 1 and stage 2 and the blind line construction and allocates them to pilots who have not achieved CAP and have the space for the uncovered work on their line. Failing this a given trip line may be wiped for favour of work coverage.

The upshot is that, in days gone past, you could bid for a line and be allocated the trip line thus knowing what you were getting about 3 weeks in advance. You could, with hours of unpaid overtime in your 'bank' bid low for a month using a 'bank' withdrawl to get time off thus leading to flexibility and work life balance.

That has all now disappeared. Even with a CAP line you can be force assigned, a process which appears about 10 days before the end of the month.

Once the rosters are published they are, generally, set in stone and a very lively swapping culture exists leading to you often swapping half the month out for more beneficial trips.

Not an ideal solution in my opinion.
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2015, 15:42
  #1790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 789
If the briefing given at the Gatwick roadshow is correct, there is a lot of fresh blood coming into Shorthaul - 311 hired thus far this year, expected 350-360 total, and the same next year. Extra numbers will surely make a big difference?
Jwscud is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 06:46
  #1791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The sky
Posts: 218
To the BA people whinging about roster assign. Go and work for a gulf carrier for a couple of months for a reality check. You have no idea how good you have it.
Locked door is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 07:33
  #1792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
Posts: 6
Locked Door,

Yes, it may be worse elsewhere and BALPA does like to remind us on SH that we could have become Vueling but you are missing the point. BA needs 700+ pilots over the next 2 years. Emirates need 400 pilots this year. Cathay needs 350+ pilots this year. There is finally some competition in the market so the airlines will need to up their game or park aircraft.
Amigo South is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 07:47
  #1793 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LHR
Posts: 110
Locked Door,

Although I appreciate your comment I feel it is unfair to make such a statement on this thread. BA have finally admitted to having too few pilots, force draft was horrendous and roster assign isn't much better. The ability to bid for, and achieve, a roster has been taken away from us so is very significant.

With regard to ME comparissons, how about the comparrison of the figure in the bottom right hand corner of your pay slip each month?

You can't have it both ways!
Flap33 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 08:48
  #1794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The sky
Posts: 218
You might just find there's not much difference to the bottom right corner. The desert isn't what it used to be, poor accommodation, bullying management, 1200+ hours per year, I could go on.

Talk to any DEP (as I do) and you'll find the grass isn't greener on the other side. I for one prefer RA to DA, as I suspect do the silent majority. The personal attacks on our reps is beneath contempt, and not appropriate for this thread (or anywhere).

LD
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Old 27th Jun 2015, 11:47
  #1795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Here
Posts: 345
Thanks Wilberstrum
Threethirty is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 13:13
  #1796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: "Big silver bird in sky"
Posts: 46
Gs-alpha, narrow runway et al......

There are NO BALPA reps commuting from Canada just by constantly referring to them doesn't make it true and neither can I envisage any of the reps EVER going into Management.....

I am NOT a rep and have no personal connection to any of them but sick and tired of anonymous trolling trying to push their own agenda.

I have 20 years in BA out of 37 years in the Airline industry. It still the best gig there is but it will never be the same as even in recent years. The majority of those I work with are still happy to be working for BA but it's definitely changed and you will have to accept that. The BALPA reps I genuinely believe do their very best to slow the tide of bad changes not for their own personal agendas but for the common good. How they continue with the barrage of ignorant vitriol amazes me.

Working life isn't anywhere near as bad as you read on here and it's a natural selection to have those most miserable to be on a forum such as this where they can bitch and moan anonymously without any come back.

BA is most definitely not what it was I agree..... But look at the alternatives.?

ATB Toro.

NOT management or BALPA REP just a regular line pilot....
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Old 27th Jun 2015, 16:30
  #1797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,441
Toro,

At least one BALPA rep is currently commuting from Canada unless his phone number and contact details are out of date. Another rep commutes from the U.S.
Megaton is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 16:56
  #1798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course
Posts: 2,106
Megaton

At least one BALPA rep is currently commuting from Canada unless his phone number and contact details are out of date. Another rep commutes from the U.S
No matter where they commute from, I don't think anyone in BALPA doubts their dedication to the cause. The time and effort expended by the reps in general, and by the Head Office Team of the BACC in particular, is immense, and not worthy of the snide remarks being made. Without them and their efforts the lot of the BA pilot would doubtless be much worse.

The very fact that the pilot strength in BA is 4000 and growing is testament in no small part to the way that they have picked a path through the minefield of the last decade.
TopBunk is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2015, 19:14
  #1799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,271
Sounds like the tables have turned completely at mainline. Sad to see in many respects. Those ex Hamble type characters who were able to chuck it all in at 55 must be sighing a great sigh of relief. What an industry!
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2015, 09:28
  #1800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: southeast
Posts: 418
I see some of the 'Ra Ra' girls have migrated over from the Ba company forum give me strength.....it was bad enough over there trying to post a point of view contary to that of Jo and the rest of the polit bureau. Please don't for one minute think you can come over here and start silencing criticism of and discontent with, the current bidding process/work coverage measures...
sidtheesexist is offline  

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