Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[Em773ER]

understood, thanks everyone for your help!

773er

[Ronny1992]

Hey I forgot what location I chose for my interview is it possible to access that information?

[uspilot]

Em773ER

ab-initio entry cadets only get the 10k/mnth housing (because cx paid for their training), advanced course entry cadets get 15/mnth housing (since cx didnt pay for their cpl), transition course entry cadets get 20k/mnth housing (since cx are only providing transition training).

Your housing numbers are incorrect...unless they have change again....all Icadet SO will be getting $10,000 HGK a month...thats it..I am not sure where you came up with the $15,000 and the $20,000.

[Em773ER]

uspilot

re-read my post again, and again if you need to

[dtur5]

Hi,
I sent in my application in Jan and now the application page for the cadet programme isn't taking any more applications. Does that mean I didn't make it to stage 1?

[airburkina]

dtur5

I don´t think so.

Your app. is keeped in their data-base and when they reqruit, they look through their "holding-pool", and if they find you interesting you will get an invitation.

Most ppl who has been to interviews, including my self, waited 5-10 months before getting invited. Though I have not heard of anyone getting an invite earlier then 5 months, or after 10. But who knows? I think your app stays with them for 24 months.

Hope you get a chance! Good luck!

[slotsdown]

Captain weid and all those who think I'm a jerk

Firstly, I'm very motivated and enthusiastic about flying. I f I wasn't I wouldn't have bothered to write my opinion on what I view as information which I feel is making us wannabes not want to be part of this dream. Secondly, you must realise that some of us (wannabes) have been glued to our computer screens trying to get sponsorship for our training. Cathay Pacific has given us a great opportunity in fact a fantastic prospect of being pilots at a young age.

Some of us excelled in our schooling because all we thought about was FLYING!! That's motivation for you!! It (flying) motivated us to be top of our grades.

I'm not shooting down peoples FACTUAL comments, but I find it very perplexing that some people just place negative comments about this scheme because of some vendetta. Some of us are looking at the BIG PICTURE. By the time I'm in my late 20s I could be a First Officer. Some of us are willing to sacrifice our 6yrs or 8yrs as S.O.s because we LOVE flying and we know that our time on the left seat will come and it would have been worth it- Its called PASSION.

[KPHL]

I don´t think so.

Your app. is keeped in their data-base and when they reqruit, they look through their "holding-pool", and if they find you interesting you will get an invitation.

Most ppl who has been to interviews, including my self, waited 5-10 months before getting invited. Though I have not heard of anyone getting an invite earlier then 5 months, or after 10. But who knows? I think your app stays with them for 24 months.

Hope you get a chance! Good luck!

2 months for me

[KPHL]

I cant remember where I read it but during the stage 2 interview, are you required to write a one page paper reflecting the flight planning exercise or group presentation?

just curious, thanks

[ronron_v439q]

Do not give up if you REALLY WANT to fly!

All,
I have been waiting for nearly 2 years for Cathay's reply for the Cadet Interview and got the reply from them that I was rejected. I do not think many have waited as long as I have....
So for those of you who are waiting for a few months, thats nothing! give them some time, and if you feel impatient, send them an email sometimes to follow up but do not pester them!
For those who did not make it (to Cathay) like myself, do not give up! For me, whether it is a Yes or No from Cathay, I have already make up my mind a few years back to save up (and get a bank loan), pay for all my training, flight instruct, work in GA etc. I do not have rich parents, am married and have family commitments to worry about. FYI, I am 35 yrs this year.
Everyone wants free training, but if that do not happen, do you still have the motivation to continue?. Save up, work hard for it, if flying is what you really want to do.
I have to go to the cheapest flight school i can find, stay in cheap places, help to clean up the school grounds (Hangars, rubbish bins etc) so that I can get some discount for my plane rentals etc.
I know of guys who became a Flight instructors when they are in their 40s. I even know of a guy who was 51 yrs old when he was furlough as an FO in regional low cost carrier, and he is working as a bus driver now to make a living!
To make the long story short, do not give up if you really want to fly and do not depend and wait for Cathay's reply ONLY! Nothing is free always, you have to sacrifice and work for it!!!

Another thing, my wife is working in Cathay as a Cabin Crew and have been in HK for 9 years now. When she first rented an apartment (9 years ago), she paid about HK$7000 for a 2 bed room in Tung Chung. Over the next few years, rent have steadily increase (to HK$8500). Just this year, the landloard wants to increase it to HK$11500. She had to move out to another apartment with cheaper rent. She got housing allowance but not much.
We went to different real estate agents in Tung Chung and the average rent per month is about HK$12000 or more! You will be very lucky to get anything less than HK$10000 in Tung Chung now. (even government flats cost) Real estate price have gone up, therefore the rise in rents (according to the estate agents)
Adding up food, groceries, transportation, entertainment etc. It will be much more! And even more if you have school-going age children.
So guys, what the other senior Cathay pilots are telling you about Cost of living in HK is true. You might be OK when you are 20yrs, with no kids, no wife. But think at LEAST 5 years ahead!

[scottb12]

I have an interview next month, can anybody tell me exactly what the 30 weeks of training consists of in the Cadet Advanced Entry program. I have a fATPL but only have 270 hours TT so do not qualify for the transition program. Any insight is much appreciated.

Cheers

[TopTup]

I am appalled and perhaps even disgusted at the standards and types of questions asked on this forum. There are hundreds if not thousands of pages of material about the CX recruitment process, as it was then, as it is now, pay scales, interview styles, questions and examples. And still you ask these questions. If you can't be bothered to let your "passion" guide you to read a few posts here on pprune or other journals then how can anyone expect you to passionately let alone professionally read the FCOMs, FCTM, SOP's, etc, etc??

To all those passionate kids, most of all "slotsdown": how many of your 17 years of experience of big business and corporate entities indicates that they EVER give ANYTHING for FREE? Go and ask you teacher about the age old saying (yes! Even older than 17 years!!) "There's no such thing as a free meal."

Your naivety and misguided / misunderstood "passion" is being abused for cheap labor to line the pockets of senior management. Nothing more nothing less.

Nothing can or will ever replace hard work and discipline. Most of you want the "easy way out" as you see it: "free training". You think you consider the long term but still despite all the evidence of financial breakdowns of living costs, let alone the possible future of wife and family or housing market increases in HK - LONG term - you only see a possibility of JFO after 6 years. You don't consider the next stages of your "life" that exist outside of a single bar on your shoulder attempting to charm the pants off a FA. Least of all do you consider the effects on the profession in general. Selfish and ignorant.

You will not retire comfortably. Your responsibility to your own self worth and needs of the future (20+ years) are irresponsible at best. You are pawn being abused and ridiculed by cut throat and greedy management.

When you have the runs on the board and the experience that I and most others here arguing against the sale of your souls have, then argue from and educated standing. Not from a mere "wannabe" or more like "gottabe-at-any-cost" naive kid.

Have you seen the other threads as evidence to CX management's take on a written and signed contract? The instructors in ADL? The SO and FO by-pass case? The 25 year housing in the CoS '08 terms? Basings? Rosters: FDTL's and Cmdr's Discretion? The 49ers?

These things directly affect YOU, but like a camel with it's head in the sand you don't care. No, there's no "app for that" hence you're lost, naive and ignorant.

[TopTup]

Once again you highlight my point by only thinking SHORT TERM.

Yes, it is a very sad indictment on the GA industry that a fast food employee with very little secondary education can and does make more than a new GA pilot. This is a short term problem. With more experience flying makes you more likely to be hired or promoted to bigger and better jobs. No it's not easy! But this is what this so-called passion is meant to being the driving force though such times. No?

The longer term result is that you are a better pilot, a better candidate and better future as a professional airman.

Now, as an example: how would you like it if your boss hired a kid to do you the same job as you for as much as 60% less pay than you get, and there are lines miles long out the door of people queuing up to cheapen what you do even more? The new applicants have little to no idea of what they are doing to the job as a whole, but they see a "job" and quick pay check that they didn't receive a day before. And your boss is laughing at them all the way to the bank while you are unemployed or forced to accept your new found "worth".

This is precisly what is happening here.

and there is more than work in life

My point again. When all the thrill of being an SO for disgustingly low terms and conditions wears thin, how are you going to afford the future of buying a house, supporting an unemployed wife and new born, car maintenance (if you have one), unexpected life's pitfalls that happens: guaranteed?!!

EM777ER has done well to outline very basic costs. However there is zero scope for quality of life or these unforeseen costs that occur in one's life: least of all the real & rising costs of property in HK.

Thousands of CX pilots have done it before this iCadet grab for money by management. It takes ball$ and integrity to not sell yourself short. It is damn hard. No one suggested it is easy. Look at just some of the things that I have mentioned regrading CX's treatment of "contracts" as well as recent history then the decision gets slightly easier. Have you considered this / these?? Today you sign this present offer and contract. Next month or year you see that eroded away to far less.... One's past actions are the best indicators of one's future behavior.

All of us with experience are telling you in no uncertain terms the truths about this iCadet scheme.

You asked what's the better option? Work and study harder than the guy next to you. Do it quietly and professionally. Share knowledge and experience. FORCE employers to hire you based on credentials, experience and talent. I guarantee you "the dream" will happen if this passion is honestly as strong as it is made out to be. This means allows you contribute to your profession, while the CX iCadet scheme makes you detract from it.

Hell, in many parts of Asia and Europe you can go from flying school to FO on A320 or 737NG!!! At worst perhaps an ATR!! The chances to become a better pilot, better airman and more skilled driver are there!! Do not sell yourself short for an airline offering no better if not worse money than Jetstar or AirAsia!! CX is not what you think it once was.

Digging a hole is a job. Frying French fries is a job. Cleaning toilets is a job. Flying a beautiful aircraft from C152 to Seneca to B1900 / Metro / King Air to 777 is a vocation. If you lose sight of that then the game is already over.

Good luck. I hope for our profession and your future you are able to make the right decision.

[lost&found]

slotsdown

some of us (wannabes) have been glued to our computer screens trying to get sponsorship for our training

why dont you go out and get a job, that is sponsorship and you EARN it! Sitting in front of your computer screen, dreaming, is only going to show your lack of commitment to flying. that is precious time you could have used gaining some sort of experience! dont tell me there isnt a Mcdonalds near your house or the local supermarket wont hire you... there are plenty of ways to earn a crust and pay for your own flying. Im sick of reading cr@p , like what you have written, about how hard or how it costs is to learn to fly. If you REALLY want to fly, PROVE IT!

By the time I'm in my late 20s I could be a First Officer.

That type of attitude is why you wont be an appreciated asset on a flight deck! Tell me exactly what real world experience have you got? You have sat at the back of a cockpit for the past 4 years, watched other people make decisions, tried to understand why they have made those decisions but have been in the position where there are 3 more senior people around you, so you dont make the wrong decision. in your flying career you wont have to make any life threating decisions, in a cockpit, until you are blessed with that unforseen catastrophie that may occur! the majority of CX pilots have had prior flying experience, before joing the company. they have always had to make decisions that will impact their flight, from day 1 they have had to decide whether it was safe to go flying or they have had to divert because of weather. situations that have ingrained techniques and a type of personality that will benefit them come a situation at on the flight deck of CX flight. you, as a 17year, have no life experience, but believe you are capable of making the same decions as someone who has flown a twin around the bush for a few thousand hours.

when **** hits the fan on flight simulator you can always restart... unfortunatley the real world doesnt work like that!

The negativity from current CX people is not just in relation to the lowering of conditions. its the lack of experience, the increased naivety from people, like yourself, who at 17years old think they deserve to be driving the big shiny jet! CX will always be there, get some experience and then come back. Get off the computer, get a job, book some flying lessons and get a life!

[TopTup]

Your decision, so be it. I'm sorry you see GA as too hard and detracting from aviation as a profession as a positive step.

You asked for my advice, but you don't want to hear it as you obviously already have your mind made up: like so many others here.

With the iCadet salary, how the hell are you going to pay to hire a Pitts for an hour or so?? Just food for thought, but falling in deaf ears again I'm afraid. (A quick google search: West London Aero Club - Aircraft Fleet and Rates shows $570.75 for the 1st hour dual as needed plus $2855 HKD per hour = $3425.75 HKD for your first hour, then $2855 HKD after than. 2 hrs in a Pitts equates to around 1/3 to 1/2 of ALL possible savings for a month based on EM777ER's calculations!) So, again, I doubt you truly appreciate least of all comprehend what you believe or blindly type here.

No future in GA? Wow... So the many thousands of pre iCadet pilots at CX who came though GA found it as a zero future enterprise?? Far from it. No, because you want it ALL NOW. You don't want to climb the ladder where each rung is earned. As I have repeated, you and so many others see the short term of the iCadet scheme. For you it's nothing more than a means to dodge GA "hard yards" as sipping coffee is of course easier. I've mentioned the severe detraction to the industry, but again, deaf ears.

OK, that's your decision and you have already convinced yourself that everyone with experience at CX or airlines in general as widebody SO's, FO's, Capt's, TRE/I's are wrong and you are right.

I assume (hope) English is your second language. Once upon a time (perhaps only 3 years ago) the written English as you have created would have had you cut from the application process immediately. You may have to write official reports or summaries for your job. "Text" language is not considered as "profesional" (and this is called a "professional" pilot's forum!) But again, this is now a suitable standard for CX applicants it seems.

This is not an attack on yourself, so please don't take it as such. Only a comment of what we all see but the iCadet applicants refuse to see, accept or consider.

You (iCadets) obviously do not want to hear the advice that you ask for. Your mind is naively made up and no amount of truth or common sense can convince you or the rest of the applicants differently. So please stop asking for what you don't want to hear, least of all asking the pathetic questions like "how many hours will I fly in ADL? How long till CX reply to my application? How many aircraft do CX have? What ILS will I fly? What's an ILS? Is the sim like a Mooney or PA28? No one at CX is answering my phone call (because it was a public holiday?)!!! I forgot which base I selected on my application to be interviewed at.... How soon can I get a basing outside of HK????"

It is utter madness, naive in the extreme and just plain unprofessional to be asking such questions that you should already know about a decision that will affect the rest of your life. Issues like these just highlight the utter naivety of your decisions, willingness and ignorance to blindly accept an offer nearly all those with experience tell you is COMPLETELY WRONG.

No, the future is far, very far from bright.

[KPHL]

I dont see what is wrong with this pay...



compared to a US Regional


I'll take Cathay

[TopTup]

Toptup, you're an old extinct mamoth that belongs in a museum and you're not listenning to me.
I agree with your dislike for wannabee but you're at the other end of the **** stick really,

And there you have the future of CX!

Work on
a) your spelling;
b) your attitude;
c) your arrogance;
d) your motivation

before trying a pissing contest with the same TRE's you'de kiss ar$e to if you ever (I doubt it) step onto a flightdeck.

What a professional response from one without the most lowly of common professionalism to argue from an educated standpoint and unable to a listen to, least of all accept the advice and answers to questions you asked for!!

I don't dislike "wannabes". In fact I just mentored 2 kids into DEFO A320 jobs as their first commercial job from flying school. They had humility but for one attribute the likes you can never hope to posses. I just don't like the type you are and represent. With your complete and shameless lack of any form professionalism, you would be (if you ever make it!) well and truly at the end of mine or any other TRE/I's **** stick, as you so eloquently put it. And you'de be so pathetic as to say, "thank you" after the flight... almost begging to falate us "museum mammoths" who do exactly what you cream your pants over every night (for a hell of a lot more).

Grow up. Never before, until this iCadet / CPP was on offer at CX has such despicably poor levels of education and standards been on the Fragrant Harbour Wannabe's forum. Whilst the bar is pathetically low now, I hope not low enough to allow the likes of yourself to be deemed acceptable (yet) for CX. That is unless they lowered common English grammer levels and personality needs to spoilt illiterate brat level.

I am sadly happy that CX are getting precisly what they are paying for.

[Chi Sin Gei Si]

"And the Wannabe's come back with a great burst of energy, bringing them only 9 points behind the Old Farts! This is turning out to be a truely exciting and entertaining thread, people! Tit for tat all the way. We wait with anticipation to see what the next move is and by who. Will it be the old farts, with their self-proclaimed experience, correct spelling, long posts or will it be the Wannabes who answer next with their green, naiive, youthful intrepidness, but terrible composition, desperate to make their mark and get into the pro game? The old farts started with a commanding lead, but superior fitness of the Wannabes is starting to show. With fitness against them, and the new rules of the game, maybe its time for the old farts to consider throwing in the towel. Yet, it seems that they are able to hold their own somehow, relying on their knowledge and wisdom to get them through and keep the standards of the game high as we know it.

The irony is that the Old Farts team is made up of ex-wannabes. This looks like it is to be a battle to the end of time?"

[TopTup]

Chi: very, very funny....Got to say I read it a few times and still laughing. Well done.

You're worse than an alcoholic wife bashing cab driver married to a portuguese caretaker that complains about current affairs

.

Spoilt illiterate brat: just when I thought you couldn't embarrass yourself more you manage to enlighten us with such a well-worked xenophobic / racist outburst.

Plus my level of professionalism is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

"PROFESSIONAL Pilots Rumour Network"?? What did I miss?

Professionalism not an needed attribute for a pilot or one seeking entry via the CX iCadet program?

The **** stick you so proudly mentioned just spanked your sorry and pitiful self again. Keep going... perhaps you can draw the KKK, Hitler or some anti-Semitic slander into your next pre-pubescent outburst?

Won't argue anymore with you. Too demeaning. I have to go and rest for my flight soon in my shiny 777: the same type your ignorance will prevent you from ever handling.

Again, CX: welcome to your future. You get what you pay for.

[KPHL]

The bottom line is that you are going to have to accept that "almost" all the airlines are cutting back, not just cx (im sure you know that). The job isn't what it use to be, we know that. But the fact of the matter is that I will be getting paid more at Cathay than I would at home, flying a "heavy" (or baby sitting as you probably would put it), and getting exposed to the world. If you think that there are better opportunities else where please point me in the right direction, I am open to suggestions.

Im not a 0 time guy, I have 285 and a commercial license. Im not some guy looking for a way to get my ratings, im a commercial pilot, 285 hours of flight time, with a little over a 100 of that in a multi engine. I worked my butt off to get to where I am.

Option 1
I can continue flying GA, maybe get a job doing traffic watch, CFI, whatever. Build some time and just Maybe get hired at a regional (remember, the FAA has passed a new bill say that in order to get on with a part 121 carrier, the applicant needs ATP minimums, so 1500 hours and so on, this goes into affect next year). Spend about 7 to 8 years flying from the right seat before "maybe" i'll get a captain seat in an RJ (life is GREAT, 10 dollar pay raise!). Now im a rich captain at a regional, cool....next goal is to get on with a major airline (along with thousands of other pilots, good luck)

Option 2
Take the job at Cathay, pay my dues as a second officer and get on with my life.

You guys can post all day saying how terrible and how miserable life is but the fact of the matter is even if I dont accepts this offer, blacklabel doesn't accept this offer, or Tom, or Steven, Jerry, Sarah whoever dont accept, someone else will....thats just how things work...

You have done your duty as a "concerned" pilot and made this situation aware to potential cadets but your really beating a dead horse...let people make their decisions and live with them....


but dear god I hope Cathay doesn't hire people like this

You're worse than an alcoholic wife bashing cab driver married to a portuguese caretaker that complains about current affairs .