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Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

South Asia and Far East Wannabes A forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong Kong-based airline or operator. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries.

Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

Old 13th May 2011, 06:54
  #2621 (permalink)  
 
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Im not a 0 time guy, I have 285 and a commercial license
Does it crack anyone else up when 200 hour pilots think their overqualified?
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Old 13th May 2011, 07:00
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Does it crack anyone else up when 200 hour pilots think their overqualified?
Did you read overqualified anywhere in what I wrote?

All im saying is that I am not an ab initio guy who just decided to be a pilot one day...
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Old 13th May 2011, 07:14
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All im saying is that I am not an ab initio guy who just decided to be a pilot one day...
no, you are saying that you dont want work hard in GA, building experienece before becoming an airline pilot. instead you are happy to drop your pants to jump into a big shiny jet. when you get board here, which at 21 years of age im sure the next best thing is just around the corner, where do you go...?
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:26
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no, you are saying that you dont want work hard in GA, building experienece before becoming an airline pilot. instead you are happy to drop your pants to jump into a big shiny jet. when you get board here, which at 21 years of age im sure the next best thing is just around the corner, where do you go...?
So your telling me that by flying in the pattern all day just to build time will make me a better Boeing 777 second officer?
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:36
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Quote:
no, you are saying that you dont want work hard in GA, building experienece before becoming an airline pilot. instead you are happy to drop your pants to jump into a big shiny jet. when you get board here, which at 21 years of age im sure the next best thing is just around the corner, where do you go...?
So your telling me that by flying in the pattern all day just to build time will make me a better Boeing 777 second officer?
KPHL,

No... but it will make you a better FO or Captain... all of you Gen Z 0 hour guys are pissing me off... how do you think 90% of CX's pilots got their flying hours? through hard work in GA, regionals or the military AND persistance, integrity and maturity...and a lot of you guys are lacking in the latter... get some and then come back to this forum...

AB

Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 13th May 2011 at 14:03.
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Old 13th May 2011, 13:09
  #2626 (permalink)  
 
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KPHL,

No... but it will make you a better FO or Captain...

Please enlighten me as to how building flight time in a Cessna 172 is going to make me a better Captain or First Officer in a Boeing 777...

If anything being a SO will make you a better Captain or First Officer... you have had several years of following your colleagues in the flight deck and learning from them....
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Old 13th May 2011, 13:48
  #2627 (permalink)  
 
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Please enlighten me as to how building flight time in a Cessna 172 is going to make me a better Captain or First Officer in a Boeing 777...
stop being stubborn KPHL!!! ... AQIS Boigu and lost&found are simply saying doing GA will make you a better FO and Cpt compared to being an FO and Cpt via SO without much experience. Even you should know that GA isn't just flying a 172 to build time. Things like bush flying, charter flying, SINGLE PILOT IFR TWIN TURBOPROP (now that will make one hell of a pilot!!!) are the GA these guys are referring to... you get the point now?

If anything being a SO will make you a better Captain or First Officer... you have had several years of following your colleagues in the flight deck and learning from them....
Not entirely true. So tell me this, lets say hypothetically a student only watches their instructor do everything, and not doing it themselves, then comes time for them to do their GFPT... how do you think the student will go?... similar concept to an SO, (yes sims do help but no where near as much as REAL experience)
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Old 13th May 2011, 16:10
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@Em773er: you already know that I like you, and I totally agree with your (long) post!!

Firstly you have to know the consequences, if you already know these, put yourself in that position (think it, not do it directly!), and would you like that? The answer is personally and easy for A, but very hard for B.

Having the motivation is not the biggest problem if I read the posts of the most of the aspiring CX pilots here, it is really the attitude wat TopTup is saying. I already said that the aspiring pilots here really have to respect the pilots here which are giving advice. Criticism is not bad! It is just how you handle with the information.. Criticism is really given to help you out, but if you handle wrong with that information, shows that you aren't professional enough.. Oh yeah.. CX will get that out of you..
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Old 13th May 2011, 16:58
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KPHL

your disposable income living in Hong Kong under CX's new COS for ICadets will be less than working for a US regional, even considering a lower standard of living in HKG. In my opinion taking the ICadet job with CX will only work out financially if you get a base as soon as possible, which is very unlikely at the moment.

Also, reading some of the posts here referring to the program as a "stepping stone" or "getting a foot in the door" this is as good as it gets for you at CX. Improvements to your COS at CX will be highly unlikely. At the moment you just look at the positives, eg free flight training and the opportunity to sit in the right seat of a wide-body jet in a relatively short time period. However that will wear off soon, when you constantly get reminded that most of the guys you will fly with make twice as much money as you do, having the same rank, doing the same job. You might get even more unhappy when you see what kind of live-style they are able to live in DB, Central, Sai Kung etc and you have to live in a shoebox in Tung Chung, Mong Kog or Tsing Yi.

You might even have Children one day and want to send them to a boarding school to your home country like your colleagues do, however you find out that your education allowance only cover Hong Kong schools and not international schools.

You don't have enough disposable income to save for retirement, nor to buy real estate which would support a family comfortably.

Why do you think so many Hong Kong locals move away to countries like Canada and the US? Because they can live at a higher standard in those countries.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 13th May 2011, 17:26
  #2630 (permalink)  
 
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when you constantly get reminded that most of the guys you will fly with make twice as much money as you do, having the same rank, doing the same job. You might get even more unhappy when you see what kind of live-style they are able to live in DB, Central, Sai Kung etc and you have to live in a shoebox in Tung Chung, Mong Kog or Tsing Yi.
To me this only seems to be a short term problem, I understand that the SO pay isnt what it use to be but what about the pay 10 years from now? Are you saying that the pay for a 10 year Cathay (either your an fo or captain) is different if you were hired via cadet route or defo route?

Last edited by KPHL; 13th May 2011 at 17:52.
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Old 13th May 2011, 18:14
  #2631 (permalink)  
 
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Philly

Yes, it is. Cadets/LEP's earn significantly less than expats. To the tune of HKD1,000,000 + per year.

BASED DEFO's earn even less.
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Old 13th May 2011, 19:13
  #2632 (permalink)  
 
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KPHL

Yes, of course it is different. An ICadet First Officer earns around HKD700000 per year less than his peers on expatriate terms. As captain it is still around HKD500000 less per year.
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Old 13th May 2011, 20:35
  #2633 (permalink)  
 
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Your naivety and misguided / misunderstood "passion" is being abused for cheap labor to line the pockets of senior management. Nothing more nothing less.
Escuse me sir. Everywhere i hear about slaver-Companies, Everywhere!
People pay for working in Europe!All for building these goddamn 500hrs on type.
And GA?I know some desperate guys fresh licensed and indebted, but still at home with mama cos even towing banners has been prestigious.
And now even the CX Cadey program seems to be an artful financial operation for gaining over our heads.


What we suppose to do so?
Personally i have no money even for a PPL. Should i give up?
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Old 13th May 2011, 21:29
  #2634 (permalink)  
 
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KPHL

Please enlighten me as to how building flight time in a Cessna 172 is going to make me a better Captain or First Officer in a Boeing 777...

If anything being a SO will make you a better Captain or First Officer... you have had several years of following your colleagues in the flight deck and learning from them...
To be honest this just shows how little you understand about aviation and what being a pilot for CX involves.

I am not saying guys who joined through the cadet scheme are bad pilots, far from it.

As an SO you sit there in the middle of the night watching a tv screen as waypoints go by on the green line. You mark down the time on a sheet of paper and once every hour do a fuel check. You watch the CN and FO type stuff into the FMS and chat about the approach, then the autopilot flies the plane to about 500 feet at which point they normally do a manual landing. Almost all pilots at CX have never had any serious problems with the aircraft and chances are you will never see anything out of the ordinary. In 3 years we have never even had to really consider diverting.

In GA you WILL have problems if you get 3000hrs doing it, the prior minimum requirements for DESO (some got in with lower but not many). You will probably have diversions, engine failures, unusual situations that you could not even have thought of. Most of this will happen with you in charge, you will have to make the decisions, you will have to evaluate your actions. This is why you are better prepared to be a CN with an airline as with an airline things usually run as planned and you may get into that left seat of an A340 having never had to make a difficult decision in you 12 year of flying.
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Old 13th May 2011, 22:06
  #2635 (permalink)  
 
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Dan Buster,

Can you show me the contract or break it down for me. Im sure its somewhere online.
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Old 13th May 2011, 22:34
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Yes the complete contract is on the Cathay website for employees to view.

I can break it down for you.

An SO on the old contract with full expat allowances after 3 years would be earning almost the same as a year 1 Captain on these new terms with the token housing allowance. Think it is about 10-15% less. (basic salary and housing)

Up until the point of becoming a Captain, which may take you 15+ years, a year 3 SO (2 years or more with CX) on the old expat deal would be earning more than you, basic pay and housing, if you join on this new deal. So after working for CX for 15 years, if you are not yet a CN you would be getting less, if upgrades go out to 20 years which they may do, you will be earning less than a 3 year SO. This is after working for CX for 20 years.

This does not take into account the far better education assistance the expat package used to provide.

Trying to put it simply as you seem to have trouble getting your head around what people are trying to say.
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Old 13th May 2011, 22:38
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good post EM77ER, well balanced and argued .....you're a great example of a prospective cadet, who isn't sitting around just waiting for something to happen, you have gone out and by the sound of things worked your arse off to pay for your lessons, respect.

One thing i believe you will get is a greater appreciation of each time u get up and fly because you know just how hard u had to work to get yourself up in the air. ....and i think this is part of the current pilot's concerns aswell, besides the housing and experience, is the appreciation factor.

Last edited by orangeboy; 13th May 2011 at 22:51.
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Old 13th May 2011, 23:19
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SloppyJoe

And what about going away from the company after made some experience as an F/O?(for example 2000-3000hrs on a 777, after 10yrs)
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Old 14th May 2011, 00:37
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Thats tue CW, attitude is one of the biggest factors with wannabes, during flight grading you will most likely get criticised and how you deal with it reflects your profesionalism. Thanks orangeboy!

And what about going away from the company after made some experience as an F/O?(for example 2000-3000hrs on a 777, after 10yrs)
It all comes down to seniority. If you move to another airline you will start at the bottom ranks again, like Qantas you will have to be an SO for about 3-4 years again!!! no matter how many hours on type you have. Plus the assumption that another airline will take you just because you have experience, is a false one. A cpt with 4500hrs PIC on the 777 from UAE was rejected by qantas.... If you are going to do this cpp you have to be willing to
A. Live in HK!! (bases are least likely for newbie joiners)
B. Live 10 to 15 years before being "competitive" to apply for other airlines
C. Accept that as a Cpt on these terms you will earn as much as a year 3 SO on full expat terms! (big deal breaker)

I know what its like getting paid less than collegues who do the same thing, not a good thing!!! Perhaps you wannabes lack perspective!
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Old 14th May 2011, 02:07
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C. Accept that as a Cpt on these terms you will earn as much as a year 3 SO on full expat terms! (big deal breaker)
50-60K Less are really crazy!It's sounds really discriminating!
At this point it seems to be better getting a loan for training rather than this kind of exile in HK!
And i think 6 yrs without touching the commands could be frustrating, if you really like flying.
Only CX, Qantas and Qatar, as far as i know, Still got SO's. And that's senseless, in operative terms.
Today i knew 2 guys which refused the CX's offer, and initially i got astonished
, but now i can understand them. I wont apply too. And i hope other people will do the same. There could be great passion and love for flying, but i think dignity comes first.

It all comes down to seniority. If you move to another airline you will start at the bottom ranks again, like Qantas you will have to be an SO for about 3-4 years again!!! no matter how many hours on type you have. Plus the assumption that another airline will take you just because you have experience, is a false one.
There are a lot of major or low coast companies that accept direct Entry TRated or not TRated FOs and CPTs. And the min requisites are not always so restrictive. So, yes the assumption can be false, but mostly not.

Last edited by JulianB; 14th May 2011 at 02:19.
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