SIA Cadet Pilot - All Batches, Merged
Join Date: May 2009
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Wow! Didn't know my post elicited so many responses!
As for my statement about flying losing its romance by the third sortie, well, that isn't my personal opinion. I've heard of those already in the programme who really dread going up to fly the next sortie each day. Makes one wonder why they signed up in the first place! But one has to understand that it's not all about enjoying the scenery once you've leveled off at TOC. There's a whole lot of hard work behind it too.
As for my personal experience, the wonder of being in command of an aircraft, be it in the C172SP or DA42NG, did not wear off all through my training. Granted, there were times the workload gets a bit too much, what with diversions, filling out the PLOG or briefing the correct approach plate. Nonetheless, I would never change it for the world (OK, maybe a hundred million bucks MINIMUM heh)!
Getting into this career involves a lot of sacrifices: foregone income, time away from family, not getting to celebrate festivities back home. In the event that one fails getting into an ab-initio programme (sponsored with a decent allowance), he or she has to really really really consider the options before embarking on the self-sponsored path. You might have heard of the joke: How does one become a millionaire? By starting off as a billionaire and invest in an airline! In our case, it's how does one become homeless AND penniless? By starting off with a home, then mortgaging it to fund your self-sponsored flight training.
It's no laughing matter really. You can just trawl around this forum and you can read about countless of determined individuals who funded their flight training with all the money they've got, only to end up without a job at the end of the day.
For those hopeful to get a chance into the programme in the near/distant future, prepare as much as you can for the interview. It doesn't matter if you can't answer all the answers posed by the captain/HR guy. Just make sure your enthusiasm shines through. And just another helpful hint: invest in a decent office attire WITH a nice tie. I've seen some candidates struggle with something even as basic as this!
As for my statement about flying losing its romance by the third sortie, well, that isn't my personal opinion. I've heard of those already in the programme who really dread going up to fly the next sortie each day. Makes one wonder why they signed up in the first place! But one has to understand that it's not all about enjoying the scenery once you've leveled off at TOC. There's a whole lot of hard work behind it too.
As for my personal experience, the wonder of being in command of an aircraft, be it in the C172SP or DA42NG, did not wear off all through my training. Granted, there were times the workload gets a bit too much, what with diversions, filling out the PLOG or briefing the correct approach plate. Nonetheless, I would never change it for the world (OK, maybe a hundred million bucks MINIMUM heh)!
Getting into this career involves a lot of sacrifices: foregone income, time away from family, not getting to celebrate festivities back home. In the event that one fails getting into an ab-initio programme (sponsored with a decent allowance), he or she has to really really really consider the options before embarking on the self-sponsored path. You might have heard of the joke: How does one become a millionaire? By starting off as a billionaire and invest in an airline! In our case, it's how does one become homeless AND penniless? By starting off with a home, then mortgaging it to fund your self-sponsored flight training.
It's no laughing matter really. You can just trawl around this forum and you can read about countless of determined individuals who funded their flight training with all the money they've got, only to end up without a job at the end of the day.
For those hopeful to get a chance into the programme in the near/distant future, prepare as much as you can for the interview. It doesn't matter if you can't answer all the answers posed by the captain/HR guy. Just make sure your enthusiasm shines through. And just another helpful hint: invest in a decent office attire WITH a nice tie. I've seen some candidates struggle with something even as basic as this!
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Quoting Wings2012.
I do not agree with your statement. Witnessing countless of my Singaporean friends with full license ready to join any airlines, not even having an opportunity for an interview, I do not believe we do not have talented individual in Singapore.
I do not agree with your statement. Witnessing countless of my Singaporean friends with full license ready to join any airlines, not even having an opportunity for an interview, I do not believe we do not have talented individual in Singapore.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Hard to believe
Hey Wings2012, I appreciate your post but when there are senior Singapore Airlines Flight Crew who are so frustrated that they come out, named, in the open to write to the Prime Minister of Singapore an article such as this,
PM Lee, I want to tell you about the disparity of Singaporean vs non-Singaporean pilots « Letters « TR EMERITUS
I find it, too, like 9M-, hard to believe that we have a lack of talented individuals in Singapore.
For too long people have been saying this to the point that even when there is a great number of talented Singaporeans yearning to be airline pilots, one simply overlooks this simple fact to go on a hiring spree elsewhere
PM Lee, I want to tell you about the disparity of Singaporean vs non-Singaporean pilots « Letters « TR EMERITUS
I find it, too, like 9M-, hard to believe that we have a lack of talented individuals in Singapore.
For too long people have been saying this to the point that even when there is a great number of talented Singaporeans yearning to be airline pilots, one simply overlooks this simple fact to go on a hiring spree elsewhere
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Wings2012,
I beg to differ. Local and foreign pilots are paid differently.
There are advantages with the company hiring foreign cadet pilots, namely
(1) No need to pay NS increments for Singaporean pilots
(2) No need to release Sg pilots for In Camp Training a couple of weeks in a year
(3) Able to recruit foreign pilots (age 18 and above) as compared to Sg pilots (25 and above), thus able to 'milk' more years out of the initial investment in training.
Wait till your son, your cousin, or your dear friend who gets edged out by another national in the recruitment and tell yourself again that its all fair and square.
I beg to differ. Local and foreign pilots are paid differently.
There are advantages with the company hiring foreign cadet pilots, namely
(1) No need to pay NS increments for Singaporean pilots
(2) No need to release Sg pilots for In Camp Training a couple of weeks in a year
(3) Able to recruit foreign pilots (age 18 and above) as compared to Sg pilots (25 and above), thus able to 'milk' more years out of the initial investment in training.
Wait till your son, your cousin, or your dear friend who gets edged out by another national in the recruitment and tell yourself again that its all fair and square.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Unfortunately, life isn't fair.
So, only two choices left: deal with it; or whine about it and blame everyone else for this unfair situation that, after whining, still has to be dealt with.
So, only two choices left: deal with it; or whine about it and blame everyone else for this unfair situation that, after whining, still has to be dealt with.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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I agree that we have more than enough potential airline pilots in SG.
I attended the 2nd interview before and had a small chat with a malaysian applicant, they are flown to Singapore on SQ flights and given hotel stay for atleast 2-3nights. All fully paid for irregardless if they are selected.
They were asking me did I try for Malaysian Airlines or Air Asia, which we can't as the malaysian govt protected their people. All ab initio pilots have to be malaysian citizen, even though air asia is a self sponsored course.
Because we have to serve NS, which we gladly do so to protect our nation, all we want is level playing field rather than some cheap timex or hamilton watch. I appluade Sham Kumar Singh for his courage and hope he is not fired in the near future.
Economic sense is the most important factor for SIA, unless the govt enact a law protecting it's own citizens for certain selected industry/ vocations; things will not change. Taking into consideration that our govt started the open-door policy & is pro-foreign talent, change is unlikely.
I attended the 2nd interview before and had a small chat with a malaysian applicant, they are flown to Singapore on SQ flights and given hotel stay for atleast 2-3nights. All fully paid for irregardless if they are selected.
They were asking me did I try for Malaysian Airlines or Air Asia, which we can't as the malaysian govt protected their people. All ab initio pilots have to be malaysian citizen, even though air asia is a self sponsored course.
Because we have to serve NS, which we gladly do so to protect our nation, all we want is level playing field rather than some cheap timex or hamilton watch. I appluade Sham Kumar Singh for his courage and hope he is not fired in the near future.
Economic sense is the most important factor for SIA, unless the govt enact a law protecting it's own citizens for certain selected industry/ vocations; things will not change. Taking into consideration that our govt started the open-door policy & is pro-foreign talent, change is unlikely.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Can someone please explain to me why:
Singaporeans who self-sponsor CPL either in SFC/Overseas do not receive so much as an interview and are unemployed/doing something else/employed as an instructor in some random place?
Indian/Malaysian/HK cadets are accepted with open arms even if they have had prior flight training and are zoomed straight past the crowd to the Citation phase?
In fact if you read the ad by SIA calling for foreign cadets, they explicitly state that they do not mind prior experience whereas SFC Graduates who are Singaporean and have just paid SGD200,000 are not finding jobs.
Finally I do not even understand how relevant the "Wait till 26" policy is anymore. All you NSmen kee chiu and say, after your NS stint, who really wants to go to Airforce anymore?
It's like CAAS/MINDEF/SIA/RSAF are expecting people who did not sign on at 18-19 to ORD and come back between 19-26?
Who makes these policies?
I hope Qatar and CX whoop the living hell outta SIA these few years and they really start to get their act together.
Seems like SIA's arrogance towards employees is overflowing over to customers as well
Oh well...Sorry just ranting
Singaporeans who self-sponsor CPL either in SFC/Overseas do not receive so much as an interview and are unemployed/doing something else/employed as an instructor in some random place?
Indian/Malaysian/HK cadets are accepted with open arms even if they have had prior flight training and are zoomed straight past the crowd to the Citation phase?
In fact if you read the ad by SIA calling for foreign cadets, they explicitly state that they do not mind prior experience whereas SFC Graduates who are Singaporean and have just paid SGD200,000 are not finding jobs.
Finally I do not even understand how relevant the "Wait till 26" policy is anymore. All you NSmen kee chiu and say, after your NS stint, who really wants to go to Airforce anymore?
It's like CAAS/MINDEF/SIA/RSAF are expecting people who did not sign on at 18-19 to ORD and come back between 19-26?
Who makes these policies?
I hope Qatar and CX whoop the living hell outta SIA these few years and they really start to get their act together.
Seems like SIA's arrogance towards employees is overflowing over to customers as well
Oh well...Sorry just ranting
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Theseus, that's good to know.
I will have to sit on the fence on this topic. I know of self-sponsored Singaporeans who have CPLs who did not get into Singapore Airlines. However, I also know of self-sponsored Singaporeans who DID get into Singapore Airlines. The difference? I have no idea.
Also, the system of 26 years and above only for Singaporeans to apply is flawed and in dire need of review. There is a history behind this ruling. Long ago, before this ruling, Singaporeans were allowed to join at the age of 18, after O-Levels (yes, NS did not start until later). And, we are talking about the golden age of aviation. Many 18 year olds chose MSA over the Air Force. Being a young nation then, the air force was not too happy that they were not given first pick of the crop. Naturally, this 26 year old ruling came up to allow the air force to choose first. Of course, this ruling did not apply to non-Singaporeans.
However, to go as far as saying that the Singaporeans are treated poorly compared to non-Singaporeans is a bit too extreme. I will give you a few examples why:
1. Believe it or not, the majority of cadets are Singaporeans. Yes, you may read about the company going to Malaysia, HK and India to recruit cadets. But, in the overall scheme of things, they are the minority.
2. Every cadet has to pay a training bond which offsets their total training cost. The training bond of a non-Singaporean is double that of a Singaporean.
3. Command selection gives priority to Singaporeans. The first criteria is nationality. When selecting between a Singaporean and a non-Singaporean who meet the requirements at the same time, the Singaporean is selected. And the non-Singaporean can be bypassed by the next Singaporean as well. I am afraid I do not know how many times this bypass can be done.
Yes, I know. You will argue "How about Singaporeans who have to go for reservist? They lose out on flying you know." I'm afraid this is a national issue that is way beyond the hands of the company. If the nation calls, the company has to release the guy. Whether or not this counts against a Singaporean's chance of recruitment, I will be surprised if it did. If it can be proven, then the company has to answer some serious questions from MINDEF.
All I can say is that the company will never answer the questions that are posed here. Because they couldn't be bothered. They might amend some things, maybe the 26 year old thing, but I bet it will be because of some heavy maneuvers at the top level. In the meantime, my advice is just to keep working on meeting these requirements, no matter how flawed they may seem to be.
Good luck.
I will have to sit on the fence on this topic. I know of self-sponsored Singaporeans who have CPLs who did not get into Singapore Airlines. However, I also know of self-sponsored Singaporeans who DID get into Singapore Airlines. The difference? I have no idea.
Also, the system of 26 years and above only for Singaporeans to apply is flawed and in dire need of review. There is a history behind this ruling. Long ago, before this ruling, Singaporeans were allowed to join at the age of 18, after O-Levels (yes, NS did not start until later). And, we are talking about the golden age of aviation. Many 18 year olds chose MSA over the Air Force. Being a young nation then, the air force was not too happy that they were not given first pick of the crop. Naturally, this 26 year old ruling came up to allow the air force to choose first. Of course, this ruling did not apply to non-Singaporeans.
However, to go as far as saying that the Singaporeans are treated poorly compared to non-Singaporeans is a bit too extreme. I will give you a few examples why:
1. Believe it or not, the majority of cadets are Singaporeans. Yes, you may read about the company going to Malaysia, HK and India to recruit cadets. But, in the overall scheme of things, they are the minority.
2. Every cadet has to pay a training bond which offsets their total training cost. The training bond of a non-Singaporean is double that of a Singaporean.
3. Command selection gives priority to Singaporeans. The first criteria is nationality. When selecting between a Singaporean and a non-Singaporean who meet the requirements at the same time, the Singaporean is selected. And the non-Singaporean can be bypassed by the next Singaporean as well. I am afraid I do not know how many times this bypass can be done.
Yes, I know. You will argue "How about Singaporeans who have to go for reservist? They lose out on flying you know." I'm afraid this is a national issue that is way beyond the hands of the company. If the nation calls, the company has to release the guy. Whether or not this counts against a Singaporean's chance of recruitment, I will be surprised if it did. If it can be proven, then the company has to answer some serious questions from MINDEF.
All I can say is that the company will never answer the questions that are posed here. Because they couldn't be bothered. They might amend some things, maybe the 26 year old thing, but I bet it will be because of some heavy maneuvers at the top level. In the meantime, my advice is just to keep working on meeting these requirements, no matter how flawed they may seem to be.
Good luck.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Flying Monkeyz, are you an instructor? heee... 5000ft ya..
Hey guys, certain things are beyond our control I guess. I am referring to national policies, SIA recruitment policies, current economy, profit performance of the airline, etc. We just need to bang on those which we can control in order to improve our chances to get into SIA. I think those which we can control we shall do it to our very best. Lets look at what we can control :
interview preparation
interview performance
..haaa.. I guess that's all. What we cannot control at the point of submitting an online application for cadet, apart from what I listed above :
our academic background
our/any flying background(ya, we all know, this doesn't have an impact of whether we can up our chances of impressing the interviewers)
our personal career background so far
..and after 2nd interview is cleared, what we also cannot control :
our medical results by CAAS, SIA medical panel ultimately saying ok to us
So, in my humble opinion, going back to our fundamentals, as long as we meet the interview pre-requisites, submit an application, and upon obtaining an interview opportunity, prepare well and perform to our best for our interiew. The rest of the uncontrollable points its really up to SIA to determine everyone of us clears that. This may be different for different candidates. Then it will be outcome for us, offer/rejection after all the interview(s).
Well, I guess life's unfair and cruel indeed, we can only try our best, many times life requires someone to do other jobs as well, if not, who will fill those other positions right? I feel that as much as we can discuss about the non controllable stuffs, we can only hope that someday, someone, can correct those flaws that we believe could be inhibiting our chances to get into the airline. So guys, wait patiently for the recruitment to open again and I am sure once the gate's open, there's no stopping everyone of you to apply!
Good lucky.
Hey guys, certain things are beyond our control I guess. I am referring to national policies, SIA recruitment policies, current economy, profit performance of the airline, etc. We just need to bang on those which we can control in order to improve our chances to get into SIA. I think those which we can control we shall do it to our very best. Lets look at what we can control :
interview preparation
interview performance
..haaa.. I guess that's all. What we cannot control at the point of submitting an online application for cadet, apart from what I listed above :
our academic background
our/any flying background(ya, we all know, this doesn't have an impact of whether we can up our chances of impressing the interviewers)
our personal career background so far
..and after 2nd interview is cleared, what we also cannot control :
our medical results by CAAS, SIA medical panel ultimately saying ok to us
So, in my humble opinion, going back to our fundamentals, as long as we meet the interview pre-requisites, submit an application, and upon obtaining an interview opportunity, prepare well and perform to our best for our interiew. The rest of the uncontrollable points its really up to SIA to determine everyone of us clears that. This may be different for different candidates. Then it will be outcome for us, offer/rejection after all the interview(s).
Well, I guess life's unfair and cruel indeed, we can only try our best, many times life requires someone to do other jobs as well, if not, who will fill those other positions right? I feel that as much as we can discuss about the non controllable stuffs, we can only hope that someday, someone, can correct those flaws that we believe could be inhibiting our chances to get into the airline. So guys, wait patiently for the recruitment to open again and I am sure once the gate's open, there's no stopping everyone of you to apply!
Good lucky.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Can confirm that it's 30k over 5 years.
I'm quite surprised the SQ SFO had the balls to write in to TRE with his real name. Hopefully there's no blowback since we all know how well it worked out for the last guy.
I'm quite surprised the SQ SFO had the balls to write in to TRE with his real name. Hopefully there's no blowback since we all know how well it worked out for the last guy.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Well with a 380 TR, he's probably got himself at least 6000 jet hours so anyone in the world would hear this man. Kudos to him!
It started one day with Temasek Review and today the whole politics of Singapore is changing and the PAP is actually listening to the people.
Maybe one day we'll look back at this guy as the catalyst for changing the course of SIA Recruitment Policy to favor locals over foreigners
Bravo to Mr. Sham Kumar Singh!
It started one day with Temasek Review and today the whole politics of Singapore is changing and the PAP is actually listening to the people.
Maybe one day we'll look back at this guy as the catalyst for changing the course of SIA Recruitment Policy to favor locals over foreigners
Bravo to Mr. Sham Kumar Singh!
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Man! Looks like we Indians are quite a hated lot. Been on this forum for quite some time now and have read countless number of posts with only bad/hateful things to say about us . I am just curious if that is the impression we guys are making on the world. I am sure we are doing and have done good things too but people here haven't noticed that yet i guess!!
This also makes me nervous when I think of going on a job hunt outside India (not Pay2Fly). Are we considered THAT bad? Makes me wonder if my nationality will be a hindrance for me when I am up against Europeans and Americans who usually have a good reputation. If I go prepared for a job (and I know my capabilities and trust my flying skills), will my "Indianness", so to speak, go against me? Would love to hear about this from some of you.
Thanks,
AF.
This also makes me nervous when I think of going on a job hunt outside India (not Pay2Fly). Are we considered THAT bad? Makes me wonder if my nationality will be a hindrance for me when I am up against Europeans and Americans who usually have a good reputation. If I go prepared for a job (and I know my capabilities and trust my flying skills), will my "Indianness", so to speak, go against me? Would love to hear about this from some of you.
Thanks,
AF.
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We have lots of Singaporean Indian pilots flying for our national carrier. Singapore Airlines itself was founded by an Indian so being an Indian (ethnically) is no issue in Singapore as long as you have served the country's military and you are a local Singaporean.
In fact if you read the article about the A380 Pilot who complains about excess foreigners and discrimination against locals in a local blog, you would realize that that gentleman himself is an ethnic Indian.
We do not howeve condone SIA hiring India Indians when he have an ample amount of talent in Singapore itself.
Moreover, the attitude of many Indian foreigners in Singapore, recently, is, for lack of a better word, wanting. But that is not a topic of discussion here in PPRuNE. If you have Singaporean friends you can ask them how they truly feel.
Lastly, I don't understand why you would want to leave a country of 1 billion+ with the world's largest middle class (projected 600million in a few years) to work somewhere else. They will give priority to their own citizens.
If Aviation in India is really that bad, stay there and make things better instead of saturating the already saturated aviation job market in developed nations.
Sorry if I came off rudely but you were looking for an honest opinion. This is quite honest I think.
In fact if you read the article about the A380 Pilot who complains about excess foreigners and discrimination against locals in a local blog, you would realize that that gentleman himself is an ethnic Indian.
We do not howeve condone SIA hiring India Indians when he have an ample amount of talent in Singapore itself.
Moreover, the attitude of many Indian foreigners in Singapore, recently, is, for lack of a better word, wanting. But that is not a topic of discussion here in PPRuNE. If you have Singaporean friends you can ask them how they truly feel.
Lastly, I don't understand why you would want to leave a country of 1 billion+ with the world's largest middle class (projected 600million in a few years) to work somewhere else. They will give priority to their own citizens.
If Aviation in India is really that bad, stay there and make things better instead of saturating the already saturated aviation job market in developed nations.
Sorry if I came off rudely but you were looking for an honest opinion. This is quite honest I think.
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Well attitudeFlying, you seem like a nice enough guy. To be totally honest, a lot of young Indian Nationals (I emphasize this) who are getting into this business seem to have a very big problem with their sense of entitlement and large egos.
Just a few posts back we had one coming in here acting like all Indians were God's gift to aviation.
My training partner during my PPL stage was from India and boy did he make an impression during our first flight when he let go of the control wheel when the wheels touch the ground. This after he claimed that his experience flying RC planes made him a good pilot.
A friend of mine had an Indian sim partner who insisted on following procedures recommended by his Indian friend, procedures which later got them screwed over by the Head of Training at our company and earned them a repeat for that lesson. This despite numerous attempts by my friend to point out that those procedures were nowhere to be found in the standard Boeing procedures.
So yes, Indians tend to have a bad reputation. Whether or not it will be a hindrance to you is entirely up to you. Do you think you're God's gift to aviation and think you're better than everyone else? Are you stubborn as a mule and won't take criticism? If not then you're good to go.
Just a few posts back we had one coming in here acting like all Indians were God's gift to aviation.
My training partner during my PPL stage was from India and boy did he make an impression during our first flight when he let go of the control wheel when the wheels touch the ground. This after he claimed that his experience flying RC planes made him a good pilot.
A friend of mine had an Indian sim partner who insisted on following procedures recommended by his Indian friend, procedures which later got them screwed over by the Head of Training at our company and earned them a repeat for that lesson. This despite numerous attempts by my friend to point out that those procedures were nowhere to be found in the standard Boeing procedures.
So yes, Indians tend to have a bad reputation. Whether or not it will be a hindrance to you is entirely up to you. Do you think you're God's gift to aviation and think you're better than everyone else? Are you stubborn as a mule and won't take criticism? If not then you're good to go.