Would you become a Professional Pilot again?

[Camp Freddie]

Hey Simon,

good post, in my experience most wannabes (including me back in 1997 also) do some sort of evaluation of the costs involved to become a professional pilot and the likely return, the risk of failure etc.

nobody can really justify it to themselves let alone an accountant, as it simply makes no financial sense, I reckon I spent about £40,000 between 1997-2000, these days the same qualification i.e. PPL, CPL, FI(R) would cost about £60,000

however knowing the figures dont work, me and many others chose to continue anyway, I was going through a less happy time in my life then and although I also had family responsibilties, I didnt care about the risks, it was a lifestyle choice and I was going through a selfish phase in those days.

Luckily it all worked out and now the north sea salary really makes it worth it and flying the S76 is one of my original aspirations which I still enjoy it is a real pilots a/c, but the chances of it not working out are really high, you can easily end up messing around with robinsons for the rest of your life unless you make really big sacrifices.

In fact I think the chances of it not working out now are higher than they were in 1997, there are just so few jobs around now that actually pay a salary that justify the risk.

so as far as simon is concerned my heart tells me to go for it anyway, my head knows he is absolutely dead right !

regards

CF

[B Sousa]

Youngsters who cannot take their licenses and hop into the drivers seat of a new plush S-76(plug for Nick) sometimes get discouraged.
Personally I think one should look at the industry before dumping a big debt on ones life. If its what you want to do, so be it, but dont whine down the road as many here have laid it all out before that Helicopter Careers are not easy street.
Today, the best bet for building time is going the instructors route, if you dont have a rich uncle. It will get you up the ladder to your first turbine job and usually after 3-4 years you can call your own shots. The Instructor route also keeps your face in the books and gives you that head start towards an ATP. (Also stylish to have these days). Get a degree in their while your climbing that ladder, maybe even an A/P. We are talking at least a ten year, Im improving myself lifestyle. www.erau.com will give you an idea or two.
You can then fall into the rut of the grass is greener at another company and continue adding business cards to your stack of old ones until you are the old one who still cant retire. DONT let that happen. Some is luck, some is skill, some is being at the right place, but most is persistance. Dont be afraid to have the door close on you a few times. Just learn to put your foot in there a bit and make them close the door.
If you want to do this type of work, you cant be a whiner. Get your Nose in the wind and move forward.

[hencloud]

Very good post from Simon re continuing in consulting. If i could do it all again i would keep the cash and do something more rewarding. i dont mean the flying, that is very rewarding but if I worked as hard as i did to get my PPL and instructors in any other industry i would probably be a millionaire by now.

Also some people point to instructing as being the path to success. It simply isn't, even with an instructor rating you have to put up with the devil worshipping employers, crap pay and unsocial hours.

Bare this in mind, people like Simon are not lucky, they are sensible to have kept a grip on reality and maintained a career outside of aviation, this will bare fruit when he is 50 and has a pension, a decent house and a loving familly, these should not be underestimated.

Pursuance of a dream as crazy as a career flying helicopters can take that all away. That is why only the utterly selfish will truly succeed. Present company excluded of course.

Sorry to sound bitter but i have had some bad experiences and been stabbed in the back on several occassions. But these are real experiences and I am not alone so they should be taken into consideration before entering the dragons layer of helicopter flying.

This industry is not about flying helicopters it is about lying, cheating and being utterly selfish. If you are good at those things then you will succeed.

I used to look up to pilots, now I just feel slightly sorry for them.

[Simon853]

B Sousa: I take what you're saying about the longterm security, degree etc. I'm probably in a better situation than many considering retraining for CPL because I have a degree, have built up an ok pension thus far, and have the equity in my house to pay for the qualifications without getting into debt with a fair bit left over. (Ok so the private pension will be stunted a bit if I don't find someway to keep it up, but it's a start.)

However, all would not be lost because post CPL I could always go back to writing software (I work in very specialised military field) if I needed to and I'd have a good £40k left over to put back into a house. (I'll just have to live somewhere cheaper than I do now, or get somewhere smaller than I'm used to. And I'm also looking at joining up with my mum to invest that in rental property to provide a safety net.)

So, worst case is I take a couple of years to follow a dream and then go back to doing what I've spent a decade getting good at if it turns out I'm a bad instructor or no-one will give me any work. No real loss and I'd have had a nice foreign adventure to boot. (Plus there's even a good chance my current employer would take me back part time or on a contract basis.)

I guess the bottom line is, yes I would dearly like to make a career out of it, but I feel I'm well-placed to go back without having lost too much if I don't.

Camp Freddie: I know what you mean, my heart tells me to go for it, but my brain also tells me not to.

It's funny. So many people I talk to about this light up and say "you only live once, god if I had the chance to go back and even have a shot at becoming a professional heli pilot... go do it!" except pilots, who seem to say "you only life once, for god sake don't become a pilot"!!

Regards,

Si

[Whirlybird]

It's funny. So many people I talk to about this light up and say "you only live once, god if I had the chance to go back and even have a shot at becoming a professional heli pilot... go do it!" except pilots, who seem to say "you only life once, for god sake don't become a pilot"!!

Interesting, that. When I was wondering about spending a shedload of money to get my CPL, an old chap in his 70s, who hadn''t flown helicopters but had done most other things, said I should go for it, because "You never regret the things you've done, only those you haven't". Seems maybe he was wrong, if this lot are to be believed. But I don't think so, on reflection. There's a difference between regretting that you didn't try something, and realising maybe you made a mistake. The first is worse. Someone once said that the two saddest words in the English language were "if only".

You haven't got that much to lose, so go for it. And contrary to what everyone on here seems to think, money isn't everything, for everyone.

[Simon853]

Thanks Whirlybird, you've talked me into it. So if it doesn't work out I'll blame you forever!

Si

[The Rotordog]

Whirlybird:

When I was wondering about spending a shedload of money to get my CPL, an old chap in his 70s, who hadn''t flown helicopters but had done most other things, said I should go for it, because "You never regret the things you've done, only those you haven't".

You know, there's probably a gazillion old codgers out there and ALL of them are full of advice. Meet enough of them and sooner or later one will say something pithy and clever, or he'll say something you want to hear. Then you'll latch onto that statement like a mantra, using it to justify everything you do from that point on.

Mine?

"Never complain,
Never explain."
-Henry Ford

Just live your lives, okay? If you want to fly, FLY! Don't agonize over it, don't wring your hands endlessly in worry, and don't go on obviously-biased helicopter message boards seeking reassurance and validation of your wacky, illogical dreams.

You think you're going to get an objective viewpoint here? The old-timers who say raise the realistic and sometimes very negative aspects of flying for a living are shouted down and contradicted by the enthusiastic wannabes (like both Whirly's but there are others) who, at the very start of their nascent careers- not all that far from day-one, deem it eminently worthwhile.

Just live your lives! No matter what you're doing in life, no matter where you are, enjoy it...make the best of it. And if you're *not* enjoying it, change it! Wake up each day feeling lucky to be alive. Dont' just walk through life on autopilot, make each and every day count. It takes effort, but in the long run that effort is worth it. Have fun! Laugh! Do not be the type of person who looks back with regret at things he/she might or might not have done. Do not even by the type of person who thinks he might look back and regret things. Screw that!

Life is too short. Way too short. I've done the commercial pilot thing for many, many years. I've spent too many Thanksgivings, Christmases, other holidays and just time in general away from my family. I've spent years in flying jobs that paid terribly, shortchanging my family in the selfish pursuit of *MY* dream (maybe hencloud is right!). I could, I suppose, look back on that with regret. But I will not. Right or wrong, I made those decisions and I will live with the consequences like an adult. I'm making things right now, and on my deathbed (which hopefully will not be soon) I will regret nothing.

And neither should you.

[Whirlygig]

Rotordog,

Just a few points.

1. Whirlybird is not a wannabee - shes is an "is".
2. Neither of us have contradicted anything that the older, experienced pilots have said - all comments have been taken on board and inwardly digested.
3. Neither have I spent any time on this forum hand-wringing or agonizing about the decision.

The problem is that we come from a different perspective - you say "Life is too short". Spot on - we agree there. However, I don't have a family; therefore quality family time at Christmas means Sweet FA to me. I have a job with a high salary and it no longer means anything to me. All that happens is that I buy stuff and it's just stuff. I don't need it.

One of your points is about "if you're not enjoying your life - change it". Again, absolutely spot on!

Life's goals and priorities change and one should change with that.

So you see, I think ultimately, we agree.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Whirlybird]

Rotordog,

To add one other small point ot Whirlygig's very valid comments...

I raised many of the negative aspects of flying for a living in my earlier posts; if you'd read them you'd see that. I went into this with my eyes open. I decided to keep on my current work, which is freelance and flexible. I decided to get the helicopter qualifications because I wanted to; I had the money and wasn't going to go into debt. I decided I wouldn't give up anything I had except some inherited savings, and would instruct parttime unless I was made a helicopter job related offer I couldn't refuse. And yes, I'm at the start. And yes, it's tough. And I don't have much work, and barely cover expenses. And I had to find my own students at the first school I was at, and the CFI hated my guts and let me know it at every opportunity...mainly because I'd had the sense to keep on another job and he hadn't and he was jealous. And it's got me nowhere in the normally accepted world view of success, and I know it. And I have no regrets whatsoever. Because I don't care that much about money and big houses and fast cars and so on, and I have no family so can do what I damn well please.

Right, is that clear? If you'd read any of my posts, you'd know all that. I'm a pretty prolific poster; I virtually live my life on PPRuNe. So criticise me if you like, but do it accurately, and DON'T CALL ME AN OVER-ENTHUSIASTIC WANNABE WHO DOESN'T TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!!!!

[B Sousa]

Rotordog made a point that lots of folks miss. that is "Life is short, so very short".
You have to weigh what you want to do along with whats going to be there at the other end if you want to someday retire.
I can get into these threads knowing Im covered. I have been flying for 35 years without a miss, BUT most of those years flying was secondary to my occupation. That allowed me to retire at 52 and then pursue flying as a new occupation or a good way to make Beer money. Many of my friends from my previous occupation have no hobbies etc. and quite frankly sit around waiting to be recycled. I have had some fun years and made money flying and still do so. It also allows me the freedom to say no to conditions that many youngsters who depend on flying would have to sheepishly accept. I see it all the time. Questionable Maintenance, Marginal Weather etc., and yes I have seen more than my share of these guys buy the farm...
So with Life so short, give things a good thought, but do remember the other end as it comes very quickly.....

[autosync]

Sounds like an awful lot of money and time to spend with no guarantees or even bright lights at the end of the tunnel,
and far to much soul searching/ philosophizing and self justification to bother getting in to commercially.

[Whirlybird]

Bert, that's a very good point, but it can be taken in many ways. Since life is short, one might say, let's live it to the full, and do what we really want to do. Who wants to end up at 70, comfortably off, but looking back and saying, "If only I'd become a helicopter pilot; that was what I always wanted to do". On the other hand, you and others present the other side - desperate for work, no security, no pension, long after the novelty of flying has worn off.

It's a difficult one, and there is no easy answer, and no way is right for everyone. The sensible option, as you say, is probably to make sure you don't burn all your boats or bridges. You made sure you could retire early and then fly. I kept on the day job, albeit parttime. I don't know about you, but I'll never be rich, but I won't starve either...and I can tell CFIs who hate my guts to go to hell.

I see people who won't do anything remotely dangerous, who never take a risk, who worry about their pension funds at age 20, who stick in the same old job because it has good prospects even though it bores them silly. I have friends my own age who count the years and days to retirement. Most of my extended family are like that - they look at me in amazement...but do I see envy in their eyes too. I'm the black sheep...but do they really want to be like me?

You need to consider the future, I agree. But who wants to die without ever having lived?

[diethelm]

I hate to sound too cynical but life is suppose to be tough, grueling, unfair, depressing, hard, full of conflicts, biased, corrupt, non-sensical................etc.......etc.......etc........and the sense of accomplishment you generate as you work your way through all that BS is what makes it fun.

[B Sousa]

Whirlybird
Maybe I missed it, but what Im saying based on what I am doing is live a little within your means but also plan ahead within your means. I have sacraficed a bit to do one thing but not so much as it would risk the other. One does not have to go all out to live life, but you also cannot responsibly go balls to the wall because it feels good. If your filthy rich, then I would say who cares, but most of us here are not, so its a matter of how much fun can I have and still survive........I think Im doin OK...thats what counts for me.

[Whirlybird]

BS,
Yep, I'd agree with all that. Sounds like we're saying pretty much the same thing. The only thing is, people differ as to how much living versus planning they think is sensible. Many people think I overdo the living bit; me, I think I'm pretty cautious actually. Like I said, there are no rules; everyone has to work it out for themselves...hmm, I think I'm starting to repeat myself here.

[Old Skool]

when i first looked into flying helicopters i was told 'don't do it' i ignored this advice and later spoke to this chap, he told me if i had been put off by one person simply saying not to do it, then i wouldn't make it.

a word of caution for the guys coming to HAI in september,

a problem i had was with the cost of living, the figures they quote are not realistic. lots of people run very short of money (some run out) towards the end of the training and put this down to living costs being much higher than quoted. When adding up the figures add at least 50%-70% to the living costs.

[chopperchav]

Bored city trader.

I currently work in the financial markets in London and without wanting to sound arrogant have had a fairly good run over the last ten years. However my job is starting to bore me to tears.

I presently own and fly a raven 2 and cant get enough of it. Consequently I spend all day at work daydreaming about flying for a living (helicopters or bizjets) and it is starting to do my head in.

Is there anyone out there who has been in a similar position and made the break into the world of aviation. If so can you can share your experiences. Have you regreted it or was it the best decision you ever made?

[VeeAny]

I changed jobs from highly paid, owning a couple of helicopters to lowly paid flying for a living.

Best piece of advice anyone gave me was stay in the day job and fly for fun.

I ignored him and continue to do so, however if you change jobs be prepared to make little or no money compared to what you do now.

Yes it's fun, but be prepared to deal with some complete muppets and maybe even work for them!

I love what I do in the helicopter world, still have to dabble in the old job every now and again to pay the bills.

Forgive my cynicism, I am not trying to put you off your dream, just point out that if the money is good elsewhere, that sometimes you can do worse than grin and bear it. What about part-time half trading / half flying.

V.

[davehearn]

fly for fun i tell you whar gaz youve hit the nail on the head.
youll never make any money running a heli company, fly for fun, use youre job to pay for your fun, ive spent 1000s on having fun,but i love being around helis. gaz, you have a charmed life , i wish i was there.
regars dave

[paco]

Veeany sums it up - doing any job professionally is a whole different ball game than doing it for fun - I'm sure photographers can tell the same story!

My advice would be to get a PPL at least and get it out of your system.

Phil