Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Reality Check
Approximately 1500 of these licences are Rotary Wing. These are only the CURRENT licences on register. Welcome to the jungle....
From CASA:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: In Australia there are currently more than 14,000 Commercial and ATPL pilots who are not employed as pilots. The Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (DIMIA) is reviewing the requirement for the continued immigration of Pilots under the Skills Assessment for the Purposes of Migration (Aircraft Pilot, ASCO code 2541-11).
It is anticipated that in the near future, Aircraft Pilots will be removed from the Skilled Occupations List (SOL) which applies to applications lodged under the points-tested migration arrangements.
CASA has been advised that once the pilot occupation has been removed from the SOL, the change becomes effective immediately and no further applications will be processed by DIMIA under this category, including those already received and not yet finalised.
Due to the time and financial costs involved in converting an overseas licence to the Australian equivalent for migration skills assessment purposes, potential applicants should take these factors into consideration before deciding whether to convert their licence when this avenue may not be available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From CASA:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: In Australia there are currently more than 14,000 Commercial and ATPL pilots who are not employed as pilots. The Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (DIMIA) is reviewing the requirement for the continued immigration of Pilots under the Skills Assessment for the Purposes of Migration (Aircraft Pilot, ASCO code 2541-11).
It is anticipated that in the near future, Aircraft Pilots will be removed from the Skilled Occupations List (SOL) which applies to applications lodged under the points-tested migration arrangements.
CASA has been advised that once the pilot occupation has been removed from the SOL, the change becomes effective immediately and no further applications will be processed by DIMIA under this category, including those already received and not yet finalised.
Due to the time and financial costs involved in converting an overseas licence to the Australian equivalent for migration skills assessment purposes, potential applicants should take these factors into consideration before deciding whether to convert their licence when this avenue may not be available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well after reading all the individual responses, two points have crystalised.
1. People are willing to fly for food because when you are new and green behind the ears that is the only way of getting your foot into the door.
After all the Insurance will be loaded against newcomers and the employers of course are not very keen entrusting you with their very expensive maschine and of course reputation.
2.It's a question of view point, whether helicopter flying is work or pleasure.
I am lucky enough to say it is pleasure and I know it can finish tomorrow.
Life is what you make of it. And I for one wish to fly in the Great British Isles doing anything I can which involves flying Helicopters returning nightly to my loved ones.
Regards Brilliant Suff
1. People are willing to fly for food because when you are new and green behind the ears that is the only way of getting your foot into the door.
After all the Insurance will be loaded against newcomers and the employers of course are not very keen entrusting you with their very expensive maschine and of course reputation.
2.It's a question of view point, whether helicopter flying is work or pleasure.
I am lucky enough to say it is pleasure and I know it can finish tomorrow.
Life is what you make of it. And I for one wish to fly in the Great British Isles doing anything I can which involves flying Helicopters returning nightly to my loved ones.
Regards Brilliant Suff
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Home:California. Work: the lower 48
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear All,
Seldom do I read all, or nearly all of a thread, but I've been away for a while and this one caught my eye.
I just wanted to comment on something said a little earlier about the "newbies" keeping the pay down. It's quite simply BS in my opinion.
I fly in the US and I know that most of the posts seem to come from the UK but I think that the general principle is the same.
It's the senior guys who are willing to fly for crap who keep a cap on the pay. I see it all the time here in the US. Too many who remember the day when just to get a job to put (some) food on the table was a major achievement. Now many of these fellows who I have and still do fly with, and whom I have the utmost recpect for, think that after 30 years and 15,000+ hours, that $60,000 p.a. is satisfactory......!!!!! It's not, and in fact there are many who fly for a lot less.
I have been flying for ten years, paid for it myself as most of us do these days and have scraped together a fairly respectable 5400+ hours. Currently working an Alaska season, 500Ds etc, etc......
I refuse to work for crap pay. Yes it might mean that when I move on, that it may take a little more effort and time to find that employer who finally realises that to get quality, he needs to be prepared to bloody well pay for it. But so be it. Have some guts, pride and don't sell youselves low. The message will get across. It may take some time but it will happen........
Ok thats all.
Aloha
Seldom do I read all, or nearly all of a thread, but I've been away for a while and this one caught my eye.
I just wanted to comment on something said a little earlier about the "newbies" keeping the pay down. It's quite simply BS in my opinion.
I fly in the US and I know that most of the posts seem to come from the UK but I think that the general principle is the same.
It's the senior guys who are willing to fly for crap who keep a cap on the pay. I see it all the time here in the US. Too many who remember the day when just to get a job to put (some) food on the table was a major achievement. Now many of these fellows who I have and still do fly with, and whom I have the utmost recpect for, think that after 30 years and 15,000+ hours, that $60,000 p.a. is satisfactory......!!!!! It's not, and in fact there are many who fly for a lot less.
I have been flying for ten years, paid for it myself as most of us do these days and have scraped together a fairly respectable 5400+ hours. Currently working an Alaska season, 500Ds etc, etc......
I refuse to work for crap pay. Yes it might mean that when I move on, that it may take a little more effort and time to find that employer who finally realises that to get quality, he needs to be prepared to bloody well pay for it. But so be it. Have some guts, pride and don't sell youselves low. The message will get across. It may take some time but it will happen........
Ok thats all.
Aloha
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too many posts to comment on each individual one.
There seems to be a major issue over pay and the fact that somehow 'starry eyed' fools like myself are artificially keeping pay rates low. That may or may not be true. However, would employer X let me get into their new Hughes if I had a rating and say 300 hrs on the clock for £20 per hour or do you think they would give it to pilot Y with 3500 hrs on the clock for £60 per hour ?
I don't know the answer to this, but were it my helicopter, I'd probably transfer the cost to the customer and have the experienced pilot.
Another thing, if this is such a s..t industry to be in, why on earth did any of these 5000 hrs + pilots enter it or indeed stay ? Surely any of these people are savvy enough to get another, and better paid job ? Oh no, must be something to do with enjoying it ?
Well, I think I've just passed my class 1 medical. I have all the finance in place, I've crossed the 't's and dotted the i's, and I've accepted the gamble. If it all goes pear shaped, I'll bail out after the PPL(H).
BG
There seems to be a major issue over pay and the fact that somehow 'starry eyed' fools like myself are artificially keeping pay rates low. That may or may not be true. However, would employer X let me get into their new Hughes if I had a rating and say 300 hrs on the clock for £20 per hour or do you think they would give it to pilot Y with 3500 hrs on the clock for £60 per hour ?
I don't know the answer to this, but were it my helicopter, I'd probably transfer the cost to the customer and have the experienced pilot.
Another thing, if this is such a s..t industry to be in, why on earth did any of these 5000 hrs + pilots enter it or indeed stay ? Surely any of these people are savvy enough to get another, and better paid job ? Oh no, must be something to do with enjoying it ?
Well, I think I've just passed my class 1 medical. I have all the finance in place, I've crossed the 't's and dotted the i's, and I've accepted the gamble. If it all goes pear shaped, I'll bail out after the PPL(H).
BG
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Career Change
Im 33 years old and have been a Police Officer for 10 years. I no longer enjoy my job and have always wanted to fly helicopters. I currently earn $70, 000 as a cop and in less then 10 years I will lock in a pension that will pay 50% of my salary for life. However, I cant collect it till age 50. Thats 17 years from now. Im married with a 13year old step son.
I currrently enjoy great job security, good benefits and good pay. Should I give it all up for my dream of flying helicopters?? My wife supports me and will do whatever I want. If it were just me I'd quit and take my chances, but I have a family to think about too. Im not happy being the Police. I feel I will regret not chasing my dream, but Id also regret not waiting 10 years to lock my pension in. Any advice would be helpful, its driving me crazy.
I currrently enjoy great job security, good benefits and good pay. Should I give it all up for my dream of flying helicopters?? My wife supports me and will do whatever I want. If it were just me I'd quit and take my chances, but I have a family to think about too. Im not happy being the Police. I feel I will regret not chasing my dream, but Id also regret not waiting 10 years to lock my pension in. Any advice would be helpful, its driving me crazy.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NW U.S.A.
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To give you a quick idea of the financial investment, I am taking my Instrument check ride and still have another 30 hours of flying time until I can take my Commercial. I have already spent $25,000 US. I figure it will be close to $50,000 US before I am finished with my CPL/CFII. At which point I can only hope that I will be able to get a job as an instructor and make a measly $1,500 to $2,000 per month. That is the figure that I have been told by current and former instructors. Just some food for thought.
Also, if you do a search you will find where this question has been raised by numerous people in similar situations.
I myself make in the same ballpark as you, but I am all too happy to give it up to pursue my dream. I also have two young children and they are my best source of support. They ask all sorts of questions that help me study. They want to know everything and trying to explain it to them allows me to know the material better. I can't wait until I have enough time to safely take them for a flight. I also know that it was the right decision for me, as I have not had a second thought....ok maybe on my first check ride but it passed quickly as did I. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I would be happy to discuss what little (can't stress that word enough) I know.
edited to correct some horrible spelling errors, so feel free to pick it apart......where's the spell check?!?!?
Also, if you do a search you will find where this question has been raised by numerous people in similar situations.
I myself make in the same ballpark as you, but I am all too happy to give it up to pursue my dream. I also have two young children and they are my best source of support. They ask all sorts of questions that help me study. They want to know everything and trying to explain it to them allows me to know the material better. I can't wait until I have enough time to safely take them for a flight. I also know that it was the right decision for me, as I have not had a second thought....ok maybe on my first check ride but it passed quickly as did I. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I would be happy to discuss what little (can't stress that word enough) I know.
edited to correct some horrible spelling errors, so feel free to pick it apart......where's the spell check?!?!?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey , you know that 17 years you have to go to get your pension? well I have been flying for the last 17 after giving up my office job at age 30.
My pension will be poor but the last 17 years have been FANTASTIC!!!
Do it
My pension will be poor but the last 17 years have been FANTASTIC!!!
Do it
Mate, do the next 10 or so years in your police job until you get your pension requirements met. Hopefully your entitlements will be not subject to future changes in legislation; by that, I mean if you have been told they will be avialable to you, they will be there no matter what.
In the meantime, take whatever spare money you can come up with, and use it to start getting licenses, ratings and so on.
By doing this, you are starting down the flying road whilst ensuring you have a decent superannuation for your family (not sure what other super schemes you may be contributing to, but a government guaranteed pension is pretty hard to beat), and you will find out how badly you really want to fly for a living.
Sounds like your wife is understanding, so the reality of giving up some spending money to further your flying aspirations shouldn't be too much of a heartache.
Good on you, and good luck.
In the meantime, take whatever spare money you can come up with, and use it to start getting licenses, ratings and so on.
By doing this, you are starting down the flying road whilst ensuring you have a decent superannuation for your family (not sure what other super schemes you may be contributing to, but a government guaranteed pension is pretty hard to beat), and you will find out how badly you really want to fly for a living.
Sounds like your wife is understanding, so the reality of giving up some spending money to further your flying aspirations shouldn't be too much of a heartache.
Good on you, and good luck.
I don't know how feasible it'd be, but once you've got your Commercial, couldn't you try for a post in your local Aviation Unit. You'd have the best of both worlds then, still in the force so racking up the pension, plus flying for a living.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 3 Degrees North
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best advice so far is from Arm out the window.
When you're younger and single, life seems a breeze...but we all get old and life becomes a little harder. A pension for the rest of your life is a good thing and a family to enjoy it with...
Fly for fun ie have some security behind you before venturing out in the harsh reality world of Rotary Wing. And before I get shot down by some, I am a commercial pilot, enjoys it, but wished I hadn't made so many sacrifices to get there, ie financial, marriage, living overseas most of the time etc.
When you're younger and single, life seems a breeze...but we all get old and life becomes a little harder. A pension for the rest of your life is a good thing and a family to enjoy it with...
Fly for fun ie have some security behind you before venturing out in the harsh reality world of Rotary Wing. And before I get shot down by some, I am a commercial pilot, enjoys it, but wished I hadn't made so many sacrifices to get there, ie financial, marriage, living overseas most of the time etc.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Scotland
Age: 54
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
I was in a similar position to you, twelve and a bit years in the job and working towards a 2/3rds final salary pension after another 17 years.
I'd been flying privately whilst in the Police and used my salary to pay for my PPL(H). I wasn't enjoying the job as much as I had used to, what with the endless paperwork, lack of support from the courts etc etc.
So I weighed it all up. Carefully. I spoke to my family and my friends both in and out of the job. I resigned. I moved overseas. I did my Commercial Licence. I flew whenever I could.
My main point to you is this: I have lost count of the number of police officers with whom I used to work and who are now approaching retirement age who have said to me since I left " I wish I'd done what you did when I was your age." If it doesnt work out for you at least when you get to 50 or 60 you can be satisfied that you gave it your best shot!
A famous person once said " Far better to regret something you have done than something you haven't"
All the Best and in the meantime
" Be careful out there."
heli_spy
I was in a similar position to you, twelve and a bit years in the job and working towards a 2/3rds final salary pension after another 17 years.
I'd been flying privately whilst in the Police and used my salary to pay for my PPL(H). I wasn't enjoying the job as much as I had used to, what with the endless paperwork, lack of support from the courts etc etc.
So I weighed it all up. Carefully. I spoke to my family and my friends both in and out of the job. I resigned. I moved overseas. I did my Commercial Licence. I flew whenever I could.
My main point to you is this: I have lost count of the number of police officers with whom I used to work and who are now approaching retirement age who have said to me since I left " I wish I'd done what you did when I was your age." If it doesnt work out for you at least when you get to 50 or 60 you can be satisfied that you gave it your best shot!
A famous person once said " Far better to regret something you have done than something you haven't"
All the Best and in the meantime
" Be careful out there."
heli_spy
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey man...don't be foolish!!! I left the Air Force after ten years as a pilot and have spent the last 13 years in Commercial Helicopter Ops (from offshore work to EMS to airline work). The industry is probably one of the most difficult to break into because you don't have any experience and the smaller companies and jobs are the only ones that may hire you due to insurance reasons. I regret now not having a military pension like many of my "just retiring buddies" from the Air Force because I did exactly what you are proposing. It will be many years before you get up to a stable salary like the one you have now and unfortunately the risk of losing your medical as you get older (believe it or not it happens) or just never achieving a position that will give you sufficient income so you can retire comfortably is very high! Quite frankly, (some will disagree with me) the industry pays poorly in general and has not kept up with other occupations. Sorry to dampen your dreams...but the love of flying is not worth giving up what you have achieved in your police career or risking your families future for an industry that seems glamorous from the outside. Ten years is nothing- so finish it off!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TDP is right on the money....Stick with the Police for the paycheck, pension and security. Very few, if not no commercial operator will be able to offer what the Police are offering. If you can put some cash aside and fly for fun, then thats the way to go...I'm personally doing just about OK after 17 years in the industry, but dream of a company that could match you deal right now.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TDP & VTA are spot on...
I have to agree... don't quit your day job, yet. Your salary should provide you enough income to feed your helicopter habit. Build your time slowly, but pay your mortgage and retain your financial stability. Get your PPL(H) in short order (fly 2-3 times a week until your ready for check ride), and then slowly build hours (2-3 times a month afterward). Keep looking for a flying job within law enforcement... eventually, you will find one and your skills and experience as a street cop will serve you well as a pilot.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DETFIVEO,
I have read your post, and the replies of those that follow, and can sympathise from where you are coming from. I am 37 years of age, married with 3 little ones and have been a police officer for 17 years. I have faced the same questions as you, and I am still trying to work out exactly where I should focus my direction. I hold Commercial Rotary & Fixed Wing licences, Fixed Wing Instructor rating, Instrument Rating (fixed wing) and have a Degree in Aviation Studies. I am also well paid, and can look forward to a government pension at age 55, so I have a few years left in the job. I have a number of friends who fly for a living and love every minute of it, although none of them enjoy the security of the position that I hold. I would love to fly for my own department, but the 1000 hour minimums that they require seem almost impossible to achieve without throwing away my job. I have decided that the only way it is going to happen is if I do something about if for myself, as lots of people can give you advice, but at the end of the day, you have to do what makes you happy. My Wife is extremely supportive of my goals and that is probably the most important factor in my decisions.
I am going to try and focus on gaining the next 260 hours that will qualify me for commencing a rotary Instructors Rating, and maybe start building those hours. Good luck with your decision, feel free to PM me as I am interested to hear how it all goes for you.
Benjonat
I have read your post, and the replies of those that follow, and can sympathise from where you are coming from. I am 37 years of age, married with 3 little ones and have been a police officer for 17 years. I have faced the same questions as you, and I am still trying to work out exactly where I should focus my direction. I hold Commercial Rotary & Fixed Wing licences, Fixed Wing Instructor rating, Instrument Rating (fixed wing) and have a Degree in Aviation Studies. I am also well paid, and can look forward to a government pension at age 55, so I have a few years left in the job. I have a number of friends who fly for a living and love every minute of it, although none of them enjoy the security of the position that I hold. I would love to fly for my own department, but the 1000 hour minimums that they require seem almost impossible to achieve without throwing away my job. I have decided that the only way it is going to happen is if I do something about if for myself, as lots of people can give you advice, but at the end of the day, you have to do what makes you happy. My Wife is extremely supportive of my goals and that is probably the most important factor in my decisions.
I am going to try and focus on gaining the next 260 hours that will qualify me for commencing a rotary Instructors Rating, and maybe start building those hours. Good luck with your decision, feel free to PM me as I am interested to hear how it all goes for you.
Benjonat
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: within walking distance of the pub
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stick with the force.......until pay day
Im a married pilot who has been in this game for 7yrs after leaving a government job of 12 yrs. My advice would be to get the pension then either thow your self into the helicopter game hammer and tong or do seasonal work to feed the heli drug habit . Reason being there is very little job security, pay is proportional to instability/risk (mostly) and even if you have support from the one who is to be loved a piece of string is only so long.
As a great man once said "use the force luke"
As a great man once said "use the force luke"
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been wrestling with this one for awhile. I've got a great career and make decent money. I fly commercial and private on the side when I can.
Bottom Line
=================
I've decided that having money and being able to fly is better than not having and being able to fly.
It's true that I have to give up some jobs that I'd love to do and would be a great experience. But at the same time, I'm not as worried that I'm going to be old and poor.
My 2 cents.
Bottom Line
=================
I've decided that having money and being able to fly is better than not having and being able to fly.
It's true that I have to give up some jobs that I'd love to do and would be a great experience. But at the same time, I'm not as worried that I'm going to be old and poor.
My 2 cents.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would stay on the job. Find a better position that you like better. Keep that civil service retirement. I have 21 years on the department, and looking back, I do not know where it went. But if I wanted, I "could" retire and still have another 20+ years flying, with the knowledge of that retirement waiting for me. And if I somehow lost my medical, I still have a good paying job.
I was lucky and fly for my department. If your department has an aviation unit, try and get into it. Or transfer to another one that does and work your way to it (some departments will transfer your years to them for retirement consideration).
Otherwise, like several people I know, do your ratings, and fly on the side. A little hard work and after awhile you may have a job waiting for you. Satisfy that flying need with 10-20 hours a week on the side teaching or charters, and still get that retirement. Good chance you will be flying turbines in a short time. Remember, lots of employers like cops in responsible jobs
.
I was lucky and fly for my department. If your department has an aviation unit, try and get into it. Or transfer to another one that does and work your way to it (some departments will transfer your years to them for retirement consideration).
Otherwise, like several people I know, do your ratings, and fly on the side. A little hard work and after awhile you may have a job waiting for you. Satisfy that flying need with 10-20 hours a week on the side teaching or charters, and still get that retirement. Good chance you will be flying turbines in a short time. Remember, lots of employers like cops in responsible jobs
.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what is your motivation to fly ?
do you fellow professional helicopter pilots fly a helicopter
1) to enrich your life?
or
2) to define your life?
when I started to fly it was absolutely the latter but as time went on it has shifted completely to the former.
I think that is the normal profile, but several people people I have met do not seem to have a sense of wanting to be paid properly for what they do, others seem to have an excessive interest in "4 gold bars" and being seen wearing them.
I can only assume they are stuck in 2) and have not made the normal transition to 1).
what do the panel think ? is this making sense or am I talking horse***t or what?
1) to enrich your life?
or
2) to define your life?
when I started to fly it was absolutely the latter but as time went on it has shifted completely to the former.
I think that is the normal profile, but several people people I have met do not seem to have a sense of wanting to be paid properly for what they do, others seem to have an excessive interest in "4 gold bars" and being seen wearing them.
I can only assume they are stuck in 2) and have not made the normal transition to 1).
what do the panel think ? is this making sense or am I talking horse***t or what?