Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Hovering AND talking
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Now, now, guys. Rupert is a reasonably seasoned Ppruner but, as he tends to hang out in Private Flying where, as the name implies, they are not professionals but amatuers, he is probably not used to the level of imformation that IS available on Rotorheads.
Basically, Rupert, if you think the job market in fixed wing is bad, you ain't seen the rotary market - many are going the other way. In some job sectors, the rotary market lags behind fixed wing and the pay is NOWHERE near as good.
But yes, do a search please because chapter and verse on worldwide employment prospects are here. Essentially not much has changed in the last few years.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Basically, Rupert, if you think the job market in fixed wing is bad, you ain't seen the rotary market - many are going the other way. In some job sectors, the rotary market lags behind fixed wing and the pay is NOWHERE near as good.
But yes, do a search please because chapter and verse on worldwide employment prospects are here. Essentially not much has changed in the last few years.
Cheers
Whirlygig
The Original Whirly
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My friend Whirlygig beat me to it! Be nice to Rupe, guys, or.........................the Whirlies will get you!!!!!
Rupe,
Whirlygig tells it like it is. There is far LESS work around in rotary aviation. Having said that, there is a huge amount of info available here, both by doing a search, and from individuals. But if you ask general questions, without doing a search....well, as you'll have gathered, this lot aren't gentle and don't mince their words.
It's just that there are so many questions on here like yours, and people get fed up with it. If you're seriously interested in rotary aviation as a career, read recent threads, do a search, then come back and ask anything else you need to know. But seriously, do NOT go into it looking for an easy option or one with plenty of employment prospects!! !
Rupe,
Whirlygig tells it like it is. There is far LESS work around in rotary aviation. Having said that, there is a huge amount of info available here, both by doing a search, and from individuals. But if you ask general questions, without doing a search....well, as you'll have gathered, this lot aren't gentle and don't mince their words.
It's just that there are so many questions on here like yours, and people get fed up with it. If you're seriously interested in rotary aviation as a career, read recent threads, do a search, then come back and ask anything else you need to know. But seriously, do NOT go into it looking for an easy option or one with plenty of employment prospects!! !
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Don't say we didn't try to warn you. Your post should be a lesson to every pie-eyed dreamer who thinks he/she can get their ratings and then get a job and hit the big time.
Heh.
Heh.
Hovering AND talking
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consider a PPL(H), do your 12 hours a year
Did you do integrated or modular? Some of us would be interested in your tales of woe since it is a path quite a few here are considering. Were your expectations too high? Or were you lead to believe that you would have work after qualification by your flight school? Did you train in a different country? Can you accept part-time work. Are you prepared to move around the country/globe?
Please tell us more and perhaps what you might have done differently. From my reading of past posts:-
1. Have a fall-back position; another job/income on which you can rely.
2. Don't get into debt for your training.
If you followed the above, then hopefully you just maintain your hours, I am sure the rotary job market will pick up but could be a few years off.
But, please don't get bitter.
Cheers
Whirlygig
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leaving a grand a week job to fly for bugger all does not make sense
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Hey Mr Squirrel,
What research did you actually do before you set forth on your quest for the shiny licence ?
as far as the UK is concerned the most superficial meagre research will tell you that a 200 hour CPL(H) has no chance of work.
many many times on this board it has been stated that the low risk option is to build the cost of the additional hourbuilding and an instructor rating into your projections. i.e in your case 50 more hours to build plus the 30 hour course, then at least you have a good chance of becoming high time via flight instruction.
on the other hand if you are another of those guys who wants to straight to the "good stuff" without doing instructing because you consider it "crap " or " boring" then I have no sympathy.
I am suspicous of your research because you made that comment about "12 hours" to keep your rating current.
like whirlygig I am interested to find out the full story of how you found yourself where you are. will you tell us ?
regards
CF
What research did you actually do before you set forth on your quest for the shiny licence ?
as far as the UK is concerned the most superficial meagre research will tell you that a 200 hour CPL(H) has no chance of work.
many many times on this board it has been stated that the low risk option is to build the cost of the additional hourbuilding and an instructor rating into your projections. i.e in your case 50 more hours to build plus the 30 hour course, then at least you have a good chance of becoming high time via flight instruction.
on the other hand if you are another of those guys who wants to straight to the "good stuff" without doing instructing because you consider it "crap " or " boring" then I have no sympathy.
I am suspicous of your research because you made that comment about "12 hours" to keep your rating current.
like whirlygig I am interested to find out the full story of how you found yourself where you are. will you tell us ?
regards
CF
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Rupert,
do you really want to do it?
be aware that you're choosing a very difficult route i know of ten times as many who have gone home with empty pockets and a useless licence rather than stay, fly and have a ball.
Basically the prospects are terrible.
The reward like nothing else.
Mr Selfish is quite unselfishly donating his time to point out you need to be dedicated.
The girls said the same thing but lots nicer.
here's how your prospects look. Which one of these do you reckon you can be?
do you really want to do it?
be aware that you're choosing a very difficult route i know of ten times as many who have gone home with empty pockets and a useless licence rather than stay, fly and have a ball.
Basically the prospects are terrible.
The reward like nothing else.
Mr Selfish is quite unselfishly donating his time to point out you need to be dedicated.
The girls said the same thing but lots nicer.
here's how your prospects look. Which one of these do you reckon you can be?
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Another naive wannabe seeking advice (sorry)..
Greetings to all,
Yes, this is the usual wannabe enquiry, but I promise you I've scoured the whole forum for every tidbit of info before writing this post!
First a little background:
I'm currently 33 years old and have been fascinated by helicopters for the last 31 of them. Been around aircraft all my life (dad in RAF), have some PPL(A) training (15 hrs a few years back in Canada while working) and have reached a point where financially I can give up my hard earned home and follow my dream and re-train to fly.
It's taken me six months hard research and thinking to get to this point, I've done aptitude tests (scored highly), trial flight, spoken to folks from several UK and US training schools, and read everything I can find on the net. I'm well aware of the pitfalls of the industry, and that I'm going to need to budget a good deal more than the CPL money alone to give myself even the slightest chance of success.
So, here's what I currently plan on doing. Any insights as to what I might do differently to give myself a better chance are welcome. I've accumulated all the best advice and wisdom I could find but I still really don't have any clue as to whether I'm being realistic or whether my plans are naive pie in the sky material:
I aim to do the joint JAA/FAA course at Heli Adventures in Florida including the FAA CFI course, (I have a provisional booking for Sept '05.) Then instruct for the remaining year of the J1 visa (relocating nationally in US as required). During that time I'm going to get myself a single-engine turbine rating and self fund another 10 or 20 hours on it, or spend that money on a dual-turbine rating as well.
Upon return to the UK, I would fund a JAA CFI qualification and seek work here for another 1000 hours or so. All the qualifications and ratings at this point I can afford to do self-funded.
So, I'm hoping that by then I'd have taken 3 to 4 years since starting the CPL, have accrued 2000 hours and have at least an additional low-use turbine rating. (I really don't think I could stretch to an IR as well but I could if I tightened my belt somewhat as well as forgoing the JAA CFI, but then I'd loose the hours I could earn with it..)
Is this realistic? Would I at this point stand a reasonable chance of finding work? I'm seeing this as a no compromise life-changing journey and one that I'm prepared to follow anywhere around the world to do. (No dependents, lucky me.)
I'm well aware it's still a huge risk. I'm trying to mitigate against that by investing some of my equity from my vastly over-enflated Oxfordshire house value into rental property.
I understand that there's no certainties, but have I considered everything I should have and devised a workable plan? (And I could always go back to software if it didn't work out, I lost the medical, etc. I'd just have spent my house..)
Thanks for any and every piece of advice.
Si
No need to apologise Simon. Yours is one of the best wannabe posts for a long time. Nobody minds being asked questions by someone who's done some research of their own before asking.
Heliport
Yes, this is the usual wannabe enquiry, but I promise you I've scoured the whole forum for every tidbit of info before writing this post!
First a little background:
I'm currently 33 years old and have been fascinated by helicopters for the last 31 of them. Been around aircraft all my life (dad in RAF), have some PPL(A) training (15 hrs a few years back in Canada while working) and have reached a point where financially I can give up my hard earned home and follow my dream and re-train to fly.
It's taken me six months hard research and thinking to get to this point, I've done aptitude tests (scored highly), trial flight, spoken to folks from several UK and US training schools, and read everything I can find on the net. I'm well aware of the pitfalls of the industry, and that I'm going to need to budget a good deal more than the CPL money alone to give myself even the slightest chance of success.
So, here's what I currently plan on doing. Any insights as to what I might do differently to give myself a better chance are welcome. I've accumulated all the best advice and wisdom I could find but I still really don't have any clue as to whether I'm being realistic or whether my plans are naive pie in the sky material:
I aim to do the joint JAA/FAA course at Heli Adventures in Florida including the FAA CFI course, (I have a provisional booking for Sept '05.) Then instruct for the remaining year of the J1 visa (relocating nationally in US as required). During that time I'm going to get myself a single-engine turbine rating and self fund another 10 or 20 hours on it, or spend that money on a dual-turbine rating as well.
Upon return to the UK, I would fund a JAA CFI qualification and seek work here for another 1000 hours or so. All the qualifications and ratings at this point I can afford to do self-funded.
So, I'm hoping that by then I'd have taken 3 to 4 years since starting the CPL, have accrued 2000 hours and have at least an additional low-use turbine rating. (I really don't think I could stretch to an IR as well but I could if I tightened my belt somewhat as well as forgoing the JAA CFI, but then I'd loose the hours I could earn with it..)
Is this realistic? Would I at this point stand a reasonable chance of finding work? I'm seeing this as a no compromise life-changing journey and one that I'm prepared to follow anywhere around the world to do. (No dependents, lucky me.)
I'm well aware it's still a huge risk. I'm trying to mitigate against that by investing some of my equity from my vastly over-enflated Oxfordshire house value into rental property.
I understand that there's no certainties, but have I considered everything I should have and devised a workable plan? (And I could always go back to software if it didn't work out, I lost the medical, etc. I'd just have spent my house..)
Thanks for any and every piece of advice.
Si
No need to apologise Simon. Yours is one of the best wannabe posts for a long time. Nobody minds being asked questions by someone who's done some research of their own before asking.
Heliport
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As I recall, each and every one of us had 100 hours once.
I never received any promises of employment when I started training. The flight school merely quoted a price, and I paid them for instruction. End of story.
After that, I hit the streets, found a job (not flying) and worked hard to gain expereince and trust. For me, things fell into place and the rest is history.
If you think a job will be offered to you, or your sob story is going to get sympathy, it's simply not going to happen.
Get off your arse, hustle, display a positive attitude and MAKE it happen for yourself.
There ARE jobs out there , make sure you're the #1 applicant.
I never received any promises of employment when I started training. The flight school merely quoted a price, and I paid them for instruction. End of story.
After that, I hit the streets, found a job (not flying) and worked hard to gain expereince and trust. For me, things fell into place and the rest is history.
If you think a job will be offered to you, or your sob story is going to get sympathy, it's simply not going to happen.
Get off your arse, hustle, display a positive attitude and MAKE it happen for yourself.
There ARE jobs out there , make sure you're the #1 applicant.
Hovering AND talking
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...hmm - v. similar plan to mine.
What you will have to remember is that you can never go back to Oxon.!!
At 1000 hours, you should start to be useful to employers so, if you can afford to self-fund up to UK JAA FI(R) and, initially work part-time as an instructor and part-time in software to build your sours, you should be OK. The job market could up and you'd be well-placed for any positions going.
Cheers
Whirlygig
What you will have to remember is that you can never go back to Oxon.!!
At 1000 hours, you should start to be useful to employers so, if you can afford to self-fund up to UK JAA FI(R) and, initially work part-time as an instructor and part-time in software to build your sours, you should be OK. The job market could up and you'd be well-placed for any positions going.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Hovering AND talking
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FlyingSquirrel,
....aaaargggghhh
I would really like to learn from others mistakes as I won't live long enough to make them all myself !
I can understand if you don't want to make it public but I would be grateful if you could PM me.
Cheers
Whirlygig
....aaaargggghhh
I would really like to learn from others mistakes as I won't live long enough to make them all myself !
I can understand if you don't want to make it public but I would be grateful if you could PM me.
Cheers
Whirlygig
The Original Whirly
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I enjoyed every minute of the exams and training
This is how I saw it. Having not thought beyond my PPL(H), when I got it I realised I had a straight choice. I could either do lots of helicopter flying because I loved it, and end up with a load of hours and nothing to show for it; or I could do lots of helicopter flying, take some exams, do a flying course which would teach me more and which I'd probably enjoy, and maybe get paid to fly in the long term. I did the latter, saved some more money, and decided to get the hours needed for the FI course by going off flying abroad - two flying holidays in the US and Russia. I had a whale of a time, and apart from the CPL ground exams and the FI course, I enjoyed every minute of it all. I'm not saying it was easy; actually I found it very tough. But I like challenges; who needs easy?
It's interesting, but I was often accused by others of not taking the whole thing seriously. Unlike many, I wasn't doing it as fast as possible; I flew when I wanted to, took breaks when I didn't. I treated it all as a hobby - since I enjoy learning new stuff about flying, why not? I said openly that I didn't care that much if I didn't get a job at the end of it. And so I made myself very unpopular in some circles...or was it that people were jealous at my happy-go-lucky attitude? Like the CFI, at a school I instructed at till recently, who openly accused me of taking the bread out of his mouth since I had another job to fall back on. Like, he didn't have a choice!
Not being the world's most confident person (a female disease I think
) I occasionally wondered if I'd got it all wrong. But now I'm damned sure I had it right! Though maybe, just maybe, I should learn to keep my mouth shut if I don't want to annoy people. 
Basically, to all you wannabes out there, if you want to fly helicopters, fly helicopters. If you want to do the CPL, do it. But don't do it unless you're willing to do it for its own sake, and enjoy the path as much as the possible eventual goal.
And don't, absolutely don't, go into debt to do it!
The Original Whirly
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Naive wannabe? No, not at all. It sounds to me like you've really thought this through.
The only thing I would suggest, if you haven't done it, is that you get a Class 1 medical before you start, just to make sure that you can. It would be a shame to do everything and find that you fail the Class 1 for some stupid reason you didn't know about and hadn't thought of, and believe me, it happens.
Other than that, sounds good. go for it, and good luck.
The only thing I would suggest, if you haven't done it, is that you get a Class 1 medical before you start, just to make sure that you can. It would be a shame to do everything and find that you fail the Class 1 for some stupid reason you didn't know about and hadn't thought of, and believe me, it happens.
Other than that, sounds good. go for it, and good luck.
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I concur. You sound as though you've done the homework, are aware there are no guarantees and the rotary job market is pants. I say go for it! Better to try and fail or succeed, than to never try and wonder for ever after?
A lot of us here asked ourselves very similar questions.
Good luck.
A lot of us here asked ourselves very similar questions.
Good luck.
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Hi Simon,
Long time listener, first time caller - usual story....! Just wanted to make contact with you, as I too am booked in to go to HAI in sept 05 for the JAA/FAA course.
Obviously there is not really any advice that I can give you, but just wanted to let you know that there are other people out there in the same situation as you. I am fully prepared to drop everything here to chase the dream, however as much as I plan, I can only forsee that I will end up penniless, with no job and no place to live. I do have things to fall back on, so this will be a calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless.....
What a wonderful world we live in!!!! Roll on September......
Long time listener, first time caller - usual story....! Just wanted to make contact with you, as I too am booked in to go to HAI in sept 05 for the JAA/FAA course.
Obviously there is not really any advice that I can give you, but just wanted to let you know that there are other people out there in the same situation as you. I am fully prepared to drop everything here to chase the dream, however as much as I plan, I can only forsee that I will end up penniless, with no job and no place to live. I do have things to fall back on, so this will be a calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless.....
What a wonderful world we live in!!!! Roll on September......
Dude,
Read 407 drivers post and get a grip.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaving a grand a week job to fly for bugger all does not make sense
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a LIFESTYLE job and I really don't think you have the desire to follow it through.
Bugger spending the 15000 to do more flying. If you really want to fly then get your arse out to the places there are jobs. I have had to go from NZ to Aussie to Canada to chase the work.
God bless the Aussies and Canuks...
Take yourself to Africa if you can handle it. Don't become another instructor. Our industry doesn't need you. I don't need you...I am fed up with having to train low time pilots to think cause their instructor couldn't teach them how.
Other than all this: Take your 15K and go on a cruise or something else menial...
Read 407 drivers post and get a grip.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaving a grand a week job to fly for bugger all does not make sense
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a LIFESTYLE job and I really don't think you have the desire to follow it through.
Bugger spending the 15000 to do more flying. If you really want to fly then get your arse out to the places there are jobs. I have had to go from NZ to Aussie to Canada to chase the work.
God bless the Aussies and Canuks...
Take yourself to Africa if you can handle it. Don't become another instructor. Our industry doesn't need you. I don't need you...I am fed up with having to train low time pilots to think cause their instructor couldn't teach them how.
Other than all this: Take your 15K and go on a cruise or something else menial...
Senis Semper Fidelis
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The Real World
Hey TFS,
I have some time's been chastised for being a little harsh on people, with my down to earth Northern CS,
But come on guy, get real, smell the coffee, or any other such cliche that may fit the bill, you mention that you were led to believe that JOBS were plentyfull, , do you not read anything, do you not listen to older more experienced Pilots, seems like you need a swift lesson in total world realism , you say you have a Grand a week, well if I was you I would keep the daytime job and carry on building hours and EXPERIENCE were you can.
No one in there right mind will give you a shiney new copter with 200hrs on yer ticket, would you if it was your shiney new piece of kit?
NOTHING in the world comes easy, otherwise we would all be on easy street,
You must keep pushin the wheel, when finally you are at the top of the hill, you can then take things easy, and look back on your hard won past!
Vfr
PS. if as you say you get your feet wet in the North Sea, go back to the day job!
I have some time's been chastised for being a little harsh on people, with my down to earth Northern CS,
But come on guy, get real, smell the coffee, or any other such cliche that may fit the bill, you mention that you were led to believe that JOBS were plentyfull, , do you not read anything, do you not listen to older more experienced Pilots, seems like you need a swift lesson in total world realism , you say you have a Grand a week, well if I was you I would keep the daytime job and carry on building hours and EXPERIENCE were you can.
No one in there right mind will give you a shiney new copter with 200hrs on yer ticket, would you if it was your shiney new piece of kit?
NOTHING in the world comes easy, otherwise we would all be on easy street,
You must keep pushin the wheel, when finally you are at the top of the hill, you can then take things easy, and look back on your hard won past!
Vfr
PS. if as you say you get your feet wet in the North Sea, go back to the day job!
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Hey Rupert,
Look at the thread from TFS headed up "Big Mistake" then perhaps you will see why some Pilots are just a little harsh with their comments!
Vfr
Look at the thread from TFS headed up "Big Mistake" then perhaps you will see why some Pilots are just a little harsh with their comments!
Vfr
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and another thing, why the hell should an employer give a low timer a job straight off, whats in in for them apart from high risk !
in all other professions people work there way up, therefore it only seems appropriate to get lots of time on your R22 before moving to bigger machines, especially f you are being paid for it, doesnt it?
EVERY time in my experience a Jetranger engine got cooked, it was ALWAYS a low timer, I aint joking
regards
CF
in all other professions people work there way up, therefore it only seems appropriate to get lots of time on your R22 before moving to bigger machines, especially f you are being paid for it, doesnt it?
EVERY time in my experience a Jetranger engine got cooked, it was ALWAYS a low timer, I aint joking
regards
CF
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to the previous post
Hey you bum, Low timer and cooking engines.... well thats your opinion.
But I have seen enough high timers who should actually get kicked out of the industry for disobeying SOPs and cooking engines as well. Just a thought to heat the bloody debate.
But I have seen enough high timers who should actually get kicked out of the industry for disobeying SOPs and cooking engines as well. Just a thought to heat the bloody debate.