Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Hovering AND talking
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...haven't you just! Perhaps beer is good for your touchy/feely nature.
Now, for your next lesson, I would like you to find a nice tree and give it a big hug. Feel the loving spirit of the earth course through you!
....you're not PPrune Fan #1 are you?
Anyway, helidecks - last week there was a thread on here from a chap with fixed/rotary dilemma etc. I posted several links to past threads on there but I now think it has been deleted. But if you go to Search and just search Rotorheads forum - type in rotary / heli/ jobs/ career you'll end up with enough material to keep you occupied for the next week. Some of it is old info written in a different economic climate but you'll get the gist.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Now, for your next lesson, I would like you to find a nice tree and give it a big hug. Feel the loving spirit of the earth course through you!
....you're not PPrune Fan #1 are you?
Anyway, helidecks - last week there was a thread on here from a chap with fixed/rotary dilemma etc. I posted several links to past threads on there but I now think it has been deleted. But if you go to Search and just search Rotorheads forum - type in rotary / heli/ jobs/ career you'll end up with enough material to keep you occupied for the next week. Some of it is old info written in a different economic climate but you'll get the gist.
Cheers
Whirlygig
The Original Whirly
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helidecks,
Wanting to go in with your eyes open is good.
However, you need to look at all this slightly differently.
As everyone has said, do a search, but also read all the recent threads relating to helicopter flying as a career. If you do that, I think you'll find that the general concensus is that helicopter flying is hard work, with little or no security, and that many of the jobs are dirty, dangerous, and often monotonous. You'll also find that people only put up with them because they love flying helicopters, and/or because by now they can't do anything else.
So, why do you think you want to do this? Have you ever flown a helicopter, or do you just look at them and think they look cool? If you haven't done so, go for a trial lesson and make sure you actually like it. Yes, it's a challenge, but so is any kind of flying, as The Rotordog says...don't mind him by the way; his bark is worse than his bite.
And the trouble with being hooked on challenges is, once you've mastered one thing, you just want more. Suppose you end up as a heli pilot doing pipeline work, or flying to North Sea oil rigs, or Traffic Watch in LA...it's not very challenging after a bit. I have friends on the North Sea; they tell me landing on one oil rig is much like another...most of the time you're like an airline pilot without the comfort and glamour and uniform and pretty young flight attendants. You have to WANT to fly helicopters, aside from all the other stuff. And to hell with your friends; you're doing this, or not doing it, for YOU!!!
So digest that lot, do some reading on here, and have a good think about what you really want from life. THEN come back on here with any further questions, and I guarantee you'll find the best advice ever on the helicopter industry is to be had from some really wonderful people...even if some of them hide it well.
Good luck whatever you do.
Wanting to go in with your eyes open is good.
However, you need to look at all this slightly differently.As everyone has said, do a search, but also read all the recent threads relating to helicopter flying as a career. If you do that, I think you'll find that the general concensus is that helicopter flying is hard work, with little or no security, and that many of the jobs are dirty, dangerous, and often monotonous. You'll also find that people only put up with them because they love flying helicopters, and/or because by now they can't do anything else.
So, why do you think you want to do this? Have you ever flown a helicopter, or do you just look at them and think they look cool? If you haven't done so, go for a trial lesson and make sure you actually like it. Yes, it's a challenge, but so is any kind of flying, as The Rotordog says...don't mind him by the way; his bark is worse than his bite.
And the trouble with being hooked on challenges is, once you've mastered one thing, you just want more. Suppose you end up as a heli pilot doing pipeline work, or flying to North Sea oil rigs, or Traffic Watch in LA...it's not very challenging after a bit. I have friends on the North Sea; they tell me landing on one oil rig is much like another...most of the time you're like an airline pilot without the comfort and glamour and uniform and pretty young flight attendants. You have to WANT to fly helicopters, aside from all the other stuff. And to hell with your friends; you're doing this, or not doing it, for YOU!!!So digest that lot, do some reading on here, and have a good think about what you really want from life. THEN come back on here with any further questions, and I guarantee you'll find the best advice ever on the helicopter industry is to be had from some really wonderful people...even if some of them hide it well.
Good luck whatever you do.
I would suggest a long dialogue with Flying Lawyer, find out how to be successful in the legal profession.....and buy your own helicopter upon becoming a successful lawyer....or accountant...or CEO of a business...or bank robber....or operator of a bawdy house......anything but becoming a helicopter pilot working for wages.
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I suggest the moderator puts a 'sticky' on the forum with entitled "Training Advice. Read this before posting"
SASless. It sounds like you need a new career. You could make way for the 1,000 or so people who would be grateful for your job.
SASless. It sounds like you need a new career. You could make way for the 1,000 or so people who would be grateful for your job.
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blithe
As a very new member, you may not know that SASless is one of the most experienced pilots on this forum. I don't think he's ready to hang up his headset just yet.
Heliport
As a very new member, you may not know that SASless is one of the most experienced pilots on this forum. I don't think he's ready to hang up his headset just yet.
Heliport
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Thanks for everyone who has taken the time to reply, greatly appreciated!
Heliport thanks for the links I should have done a search but new on here and did not realise there was the facility!
The Rotordog - sorry if I upset ,but everyone starts somewhere in their life ambition, I hold a PPL and decided that fixed is not for me just flying jets from a-b and thought the challenge of flying a machine that has alot of versatility was the way to go. I may be wrong but at least I would like to have a stab.
So first things first I will sit and do alot of reading and then hopefully will let you guys know
Cheers!
Heliport thanks for the links I should have done a search but new on here and did not realise there was the facility!
The Rotordog - sorry if I upset ,but everyone starts somewhere in their life ambition, I hold a PPL and decided that fixed is not for me just flying jets from a-b and thought the challenge of flying a machine that has alot of versatility was the way to go. I may be wrong but at least I would like to have a stab.
So first things first I will sit and do alot of reading and then hopefully will let you guys know
Cheers!
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Helidecks,
I guess I'm a bit further down the decision path than you are. My house goes on the market next week to fund my training in the US this Autumn. (Guess I got to learn to say Fall instead..)
Like you I had a heck of a lot of people tell me not to consider it. It's dangerous, it pays bad, management treat you like a dog-egg, etc. Well, that pretty much sums up most jobs in the corporate world these days where most managers care more about shareholders than staff, profits than investment. And as for danger, well commuting down the M40 every day on a motorcycle has that adequately covered.
I also spoke to a lot of people who saw the same hunger in me to fly these odd contraptions as they have/had themselves. Once people understand that you've got past the "wouldn't it be great to fly..." rose-tinted view they suddenly become a lot more helpful and encouraging.
But, to those who still tell me not to do it, I say sod 'em. For I believe that stubborness and selfishness are also worthy virtues of a pilot!
At the end of the day, I will have a career to fall back on while I'm waiting for my first break, or if things don't work out, I loose the medical, etc. At the end of the day, it'll only have cost me as much as a luxury car. And I know what I much rather do with my money...
Si
I guess I'm a bit further down the decision path than you are. My house goes on the market next week to fund my training in the US this Autumn. (Guess I got to learn to say Fall instead..)
Like you I had a heck of a lot of people tell me not to consider it. It's dangerous, it pays bad, management treat you like a dog-egg, etc. Well, that pretty much sums up most jobs in the corporate world these days where most managers care more about shareholders than staff, profits than investment. And as for danger, well commuting down the M40 every day on a motorcycle has that adequately covered.
I also spoke to a lot of people who saw the same hunger in me to fly these odd contraptions as they have/had themselves. Once people understand that you've got past the "wouldn't it be great to fly..." rose-tinted view they suddenly become a lot more helpful and encouraging.
But, to those who still tell me not to do it, I say sod 'em. For I believe that stubborness and selfishness are also worthy virtues of a pilot!
At the end of the day, I will have a career to fall back on while I'm waiting for my first break, or if things don't work out, I loose the medical, etc. At the end of the day, it'll only have cost me as much as a luxury car. And I know what I much rather do with my money...
Si
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Career Prospects
Hi I've just started my PPL(H) and would appreciate any advice on career prospects assuming I complete the CPL and instructors courses. If I worked the first few years instructing and flying charters to build up my hours / experience what kind of jobs could I aim for? What is the pay like? Will I ever be able to pay off my debt?
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Hey Man have a read of this first then ask the questions
Frequently Asked Questions : Training and Job Prospects
I managed to get a proper well paid helicopter flying job that I consider a career in the end, but it was way harder than I expected it to be, spent far more money than expected, far more luck was involved than I expected, and enormous amounts of messing about being pissed about by amateurish, egotistical idiots along the way.
but if its a real passion why not have a bash !! you only have your marriage, kids, house, nice cars, holidays, leisure time amd all your money to lose (but thats worst case) it will be better than that I should think, probably
Having said that, I am really happy with my job now and am really glad I changed careers, its just the process that is a bit tough sometimes.
regards
CF
Frequently Asked Questions : Training and Job Prospects
I managed to get a proper well paid helicopter flying job that I consider a career in the end, but it was way harder than I expected it to be, spent far more money than expected, far more luck was involved than I expected, and enormous amounts of messing about being pissed about by amateurish, egotistical idiots along the way.
but if its a real passion why not have a bash !! you only have your marriage, kids, house, nice cars, holidays, leisure time amd all your money to lose (but thats worst case) it will be better than that I should think, probably
Having said that, I am really happy with my job now and am really glad I changed careers, its just the process that is a bit tough sometimes.
regards
CF
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Ralfm:
It all depends on what you want to get out of it. Do you want to be home every night with the wife and kids, or are you happy working away from home 14 to 20 days a month.....
There are definatly good jobs to be had in the industry, you just have to be better then 90% of the other guys out there. By better I mean having the attitude and the mind set that works best for whatever segment of the industry you get into. (having good hands helps too)
As to what kind of jobs you could get.....well, the answer is you can have any job you want. You just need a plan, the attitude and the skills to make it happen.
Money....well, after 10 years....anywhere from 85 to 140k (assuming you are a "make it happen kinda guy"
Start paying attention to people that "have made it" in their chosen profession, other than flying I mean. Try and get a feel for what personality traits they have that make them successful.
How do they deal with other people...conflicts, pressure, decision making, confidence, honesty, organizational skills, dependability, leadership, motivation, etc....
These are all traits you need to master as well as being able to fly of course!
It all depends on what you want to get out of it. Do you want to be home every night with the wife and kids, or are you happy working away from home 14 to 20 days a month.....
There are definatly good jobs to be had in the industry, you just have to be better then 90% of the other guys out there. By better I mean having the attitude and the mind set that works best for whatever segment of the industry you get into. (having good hands helps too)
As to what kind of jobs you could get.....well, the answer is you can have any job you want. You just need a plan, the attitude and the skills to make it happen.
Money....well, after 10 years....anywhere from 85 to 140k (assuming you are a "make it happen kinda guy"
Start paying attention to people that "have made it" in their chosen profession, other than flying I mean. Try and get a feel for what personality traits they have that make them successful.
How do they deal with other people...conflicts, pressure, decision making, confidence, honesty, organizational skills, dependability, leadership, motivation, etc....
These are all traits you need to master as well as being able to fly of course!
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How many times have I heard this question.
Well lets start back to numerical points......
1.If you have a girlfriend or just about to be married fend them off with a stick,because they won't appreciate the time away from home or the lack of any real cash for 5 years.
2.After 5 years u may have huge depts,and a trickle of cash coming in,no bmw anymore sold it and recognise the instructor who has the push bike outside and lives in a caravan on a cold grass airfield.
3.Any one hands up to the amount of people u know who started out and have fallen by the way side.I will answer loads,run out of cash,loss of medical, to dimmy and not enough determination to pass the atpls and in general ones that just run out of steam lose interest as it takes such a long and hard road to get that decent salaried position.
4.The amount of cowboys in the industry parading about with tales of how much money u can make once your cpl or the commercial way of flying 206 for weddings or horsey races will sustain you financially.this will turn out like point 2.
5.is for fluffy ?...
Thats right people / training providers will paint a warm fluffy easy industry to progress earn lots off cash.
Thats because they want your cash to sustain there ever dept generating companies.If your smart go to companies house take 5 of the top training providers look at there profit and loss and see that 4 out of 5 companies prefer to operate huge losses every year.
6. With these pearls of wisdom of the rotary industry I will send my invoice,because I need the money......
Well lets start back to numerical points......
1.If you have a girlfriend or just about to be married fend them off with a stick,because they won't appreciate the time away from home or the lack of any real cash for 5 years.
2.After 5 years u may have huge depts,and a trickle of cash coming in,no bmw anymore sold it and recognise the instructor who has the push bike outside and lives in a caravan on a cold grass airfield.
3.Any one hands up to the amount of people u know who started out and have fallen by the way side.I will answer loads,run out of cash,loss of medical, to dimmy and not enough determination to pass the atpls and in general ones that just run out of steam lose interest as it takes such a long and hard road to get that decent salaried position.
4.The amount of cowboys in the industry parading about with tales of how much money u can make once your cpl or the commercial way of flying 206 for weddings or horsey races will sustain you financially.this will turn out like point 2.
5.is for fluffy ?...
Thats right people / training providers will paint a warm fluffy easy industry to progress earn lots off cash.
Thats because they want your cash to sustain there ever dept generating companies.If your smart go to companies house take 5 of the top training providers look at there profit and loss and see that 4 out of 5 companies prefer to operate huge losses every year.
6. With these pearls of wisdom of the rotary industry I will send my invoice,because I need the money......
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Job opportunities... non existent.
I have a passed through the ATPL (h), and gained my commercial licence. Like the rest of my friends, (eight), non of us have jobs.
The only difference is I am the only one who has no debt. All the others owe £20000 +. Some £75000 +.
And no... they are not horrible people. They are really nice, hard working, down to earth people, as modestly as I can say, and me too! Believe me I have been investigating this for 15 months now. I know every one everywhere. If you need me at any point, private mail me, cause there's not much that I have not found out about this industry.
I'm sorry mate, but don't get bitten like me. Be something else.
Here to give you really good advise if you need me, no matter what time day or night.
I have a passed through the ATPL (h), and gained my commercial licence. Like the rest of my friends, (eight), non of us have jobs.
The only difference is I am the only one who has no debt. All the others owe £20000 +. Some £75000 +.
And no... they are not horrible people. They are really nice, hard working, down to earth people, as modestly as I can say, and me too! Believe me I have been investigating this for 15 months now. I know every one everywhere. If you need me at any point, private mail me, cause there's not much that I have not found out about this industry.
I'm sorry mate, but don't get bitten like me. Be something else.
Here to give you really good advise if you need me, no matter what time day or night.
The Original Whirly
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Only do this if you really, really REALLY want to, above all else. Because what people are telling you is true. The industry is in poor shape at the moment; of course, that could change, but it's showing no signs of doing so.
Having said that, if you are determined enough, you will probably get an instructing job, at least part time, IF you like people and realise that getting on with your colleagues and the people who come for trial lessons is at least as important as your flying ability. That will enable you to build hours, albeit slowly. As for paying off your debt...I'm really glad I didn't have any (or very little) as it would have been seriously difficult.
So yes, it can be done. But it won't be easy, and that's definitely an understatement.
Having said that, if you are determined enough, you will probably get an instructing job, at least part time, IF you like people and realise that getting on with your colleagues and the people who come for trial lessons is at least as important as your flying ability. That will enable you to build hours, albeit slowly. As for paying off your debt...I'm really glad I didn't have any (or very little) as it would have been seriously difficult.
So yes, it can be done. But it won't be easy, and that's definitely an understatement.
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Hey Mr Scouse Mouse.
I dont claim to be an expert but have experience as a flight instructor, onshore commercial pilot and currently am flying offshore in England.
i assume that you dont have an instructor rating?
if you do, are saying that you cannot get any work (not even trial lessons) as a restricted FI ?
if you dont, it will be seen from many previous threads on here that to gain a new CPL(H) only with no instructor rating (and therefore no means of increasing your hours) is hopeless.
1) you either need a CPL + IR cost around £70 k ball park, and try and get into offshore when they are hiring or:
2) get CPL + FI rating cost around £60k ball park and build your hours initially via flight instruction then onshore charter when you are a high time instructor and take it from there.
option 1 = high risk, may end in tears
option 2 = low risk, you will be flying but for less money for a while
getting a CPL with no addons whatsoever = no chance of work (unless you are a connected guy) therefore extremely high risk.
so I really think the best chance of you progressing things is to get an FI rating, hope this helps
regards
CF
I dont claim to be an expert but have experience as a flight instructor, onshore commercial pilot and currently am flying offshore in England.
i assume that you dont have an instructor rating?
if you do, are saying that you cannot get any work (not even trial lessons) as a restricted FI ?
if you dont, it will be seen from many previous threads on here that to gain a new CPL(H) only with no instructor rating (and therefore no means of increasing your hours) is hopeless.
1) you either need a CPL + IR cost around £70 k ball park, and try and get into offshore when they are hiring or:
2) get CPL + FI rating cost around £60k ball park and build your hours initially via flight instruction then onshore charter when you are a high time instructor and take it from there.
option 1 = high risk, may end in tears
option 2 = low risk, you will be flying but for less money for a while
getting a CPL with no addons whatsoever = no chance of work (unless you are a connected guy) therefore extremely high risk.
so I really think the best chance of you progressing things is to get an FI rating, hope this helps
regards
CF
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ralfm,
It all also depends on where you are willing to live and how resourceful you can be. If you are able to travel and figure out the ways to get to other countries to work, then there are good chances of work out there, and oddly enough a lot of work available, but not an easy route and as all the others have said you will be broke and in debt for quite a while.
As for work in England, judging from what the others have said its not looking very well, and from what I have read, Europe is not the easiest place to get work at the moment. If you are driven enough and want to really do it, you will find a way. Otherwise its a very expensive lesson to learn that you werent all that into it.
good luck with it and hope you make the right decision.
It all also depends on where you are willing to live and how resourceful you can be. If you are able to travel and figure out the ways to get to other countries to work, then there are good chances of work out there, and oddly enough a lot of work available, but not an easy route and as all the others have said you will be broke and in debt for quite a while.
As for work in England, judging from what the others have said its not looking very well, and from what I have read, Europe is not the easiest place to get work at the moment. If you are driven enough and want to really do it, you will find a way. Otherwise its a very expensive lesson to learn that you werent all that into it.
good luck with it and hope you make the right decision.
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This has been a subject of debate/discussion many times over....Read previous threads for a full gambet of opinions..In a nutshell....DON'T DO IT !!!!! Take your hard earned/borrowed money and do something more productive with it...The helo' industry is cutthroat, poorly managed, terribly paid and dead end...YOU WILL REGRET IT IN THE LONG RUN...
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"I see people who .... stick in the same old job because it has good prospects even though it bores them silly. I have friends my own age who count the years and days to retirement."
<- - - - Hey, that's me! And I do so only because the job supports my family and affords me a few dollars to fly for fun. Occasionally I wish I was committed enough to go the CPL route but for the most part it's enough to just log a few hours each week.
<- - - - Hey, that's me! And I do so only because the job supports my family and affords me a few dollars to fly for fun. Occasionally I wish I was committed enough to go the CPL route but for the most part it's enough to just log a few hours each week.