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Would you become a Professional Pilot again?

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Would you become a Professional Pilot again?

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Old 3rd Aug 2003, 21:06
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Prune Fan.....If I lost my medical tomorrow....it would be like Lincoln freeing the Slaves! The Quacks would make a decision for me that I have struggled with and failed to do over the years. The tragedy is that I have waited till so late in life to make that decision. My long-term disability insurance will pay me the same net salary as I make now.....and I get to stay home....until age 72. I think I can handle that.....to quote another poster...."Get out of my chair!"

Where is my fishing rod when I want it....?
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Old 4th Aug 2003, 02:30
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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An Australian airline captain once said to me that having a Helicopter Licence was like having a passport to the a**hole of the world, because when he flew light twins, he would get to some out of the way place with his passengers, and there would be a helicopter waiting to take them further on their journey into whatever wilderness.

BUT - Do I enjoy my job?? After 33 years of flying helicopters, I still get out of my aircraft at the end of a day's flying with a big grin on my face. I love it!!
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Old 15th Nov 2003, 09:02
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Would you do this job for less money?

Okay all of you "this is the greatest industry in the world except for the guys who run the companies."

Would you work in this industry for less money?

Would you risk your home for a shot at owning your own machine?

I ask because I am thinking about doing that very thing.

Sound off.
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Old 15th Nov 2003, 12:19
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Paper,

We have recently set up a new company well about 12 months ago. We have a 206 and a R44.

Do your research, on markets you are targeting, depending on the work you are most likely going to be doing.

Marketing, advertising and a bit of networking are a must, it took us about 6 months to get all our brochures, advertising material etc to circulate and we are now just starting to see an increase in monthly hours flown.

If you can secure a contract of sorts weather it be long term or short this is also a good kickstart. I dont know your flying background but you need good sound and knowledgable pilots due to the fact that no-one knows your company you need to have a lasting impresion on your clients. you know the term first impressions!!

The secret is plain old hard work, you need to eat sleep breath aviation. its a hard slog but with a good sound start and a solid background in flying and management skills you should do well.

There are highs and lows and i assure you you will experience many low's but hang in there.
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Old 15th Nov 2003, 14:39
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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I do some work now and again for a company which does "experience days" for Joe Public, plus corporate events.

They have a sim of their own - FS2004 in a burger van, with an old Enstrom cabin fitted out with dual controls, and it works pretty well for people who've never flown a helicopter before (i.e. it's realistic, but not so sensitive as to be unflyable for a novice). The punter also gets to have a 15 minute flight and an optional extra is a 5 minute go at hovering.

The two guys involved did their homework - they are running the company as a marketing exercise, with the aviation "product". My point ? Get your marketing right and the rest will follow - as belly says, know your market and exploit it to the full, the rest will follow.

IIRC, they broke even 1st year, modest profit the second, and increasing year on year.
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Old 15th Nov 2003, 19:38
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Paperwork,

I think (GENERALLY), buying your own and renting it out, doesn't pay. I know a lot of owners (from single cab to major operators) who will tell you there is little or no money in it.
Where there is money, is in the add on bits, like:
renting out crews (pilots/crewmen, etc).
contract work (preferably government contracts).
maintenance.
refurbishing.

Work out how much it costs to keep your cabs, then translate that to how many hours you would need to rent it out for, per year to break even, and go from there. It might surprise you how many hours you need!

All the successful guys I'm aware of, dabble in the above list.


However, there are always exceptions to the rule:

I saw in one of Autorotates mags (I think), a guy in Aus who bought himself a Kawasaki 4 seater with floats and does tourist flying to the reef and outlying islands. He stated he made enough to 'relax comfortably', but the great thing about it was:
(a) the scenery
(b) the lack of pressure
(c) he was the boss!

Good luck................
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Old 16th Nov 2003, 04:32
  #127 (permalink)  
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What! Buy my own helicopter! Run my own business? Subject myself to all the stress involved in running a company? Have to put up with whingeing pilots moaning about pay and wanting days off? Are you kidding? I'd have to sell the BM or the villa in Spain to finance it. How would I pay the servants? Who would run the Estate? No Bl**dy chance, the £80K+ they pay me here for flying 600ish hours a year is far more than I could earn being self employed. Anyway I don't fancy having to work for a living, perish the thought.

Fly safely,
Chopperman.
 
Old 16th Nov 2003, 07:29
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Wow

Now that seems like the most honest reply to any post on this board that I have seen in a ling time.

It tells me that I should never grow my business any larger than myself. This business seems to be crippled by a desire to have each of the players (customers, management, and pilots) take as much as they can and collectively more than they deserve.
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Old 16th Nov 2003, 09:52
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Paperwork Pilot sayeth:
This business seems to be crippled by a desire to have each of the players (customers, management, and pilots) take as much as they can and collectively more than they deserve.
Oooooh, so close! He almost had me believing that he was a sincere guy considering chucking a decent career and starting a fledgling helicopter company. And at the end of the day, he's just another schmuck who's going into business with a bad attitude about his customers, his managers and his pilots. So Paperwork Pilot, you think pilots don't deserve their salary, eh? Gee, what a surprise.

I can't wait until Paperwork Pilot finally tries to learn how to fly a helicopter and sees that it's not the piece of cake he evidently currently believes.

Here's a little history lesson, Paperwork Pilot: For decades (since the beginning of the helicopter industry, actually) helicopter operators have taken advantage of helicopter pilots because we pilots are idiots who love to fly and will do it for peanuts. This paradigm has come to be known as "the industry standard." Anyone who dares suggest anything otherwise is called a "whiner" (or erroneously, a "whinger") or worse.

Me? I believe that helicopter pilots are worth EVERY DAMN PENNY they make. In fact, ask me what helicopter pilots are worth, and I'll simply say, "More." More than they're getting now. Am I ashamed or embarassed about this belief? Not in the slightest. As a group, we DESERVE to be paid top dollar for our time and services. And if you want to hire me, that is what you'll pay. You can hire a less experienced pilot, or a more-experienced one who'll work for less; that is your choice.

Or, you can keep your one-horse operation small so that you never have to deal with it. And that is my fervent wish for you.
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Old 16th Nov 2003, 10:02
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Helicopter pilotting. (piloting?)

The best way for me to make a living without actually having to work for it.

Would I do it for less money?

When I'm busy,....Hell no.
When I'm not,.....Of course.

All in line with the democratic principles of a free market economy and the influence of 'supply and demand'. Get as much as you can when you can, when you can't....take less.

My advice as a once upon a time owner, if you want to be a great small business person more than you want to be a great helicopter pilot, buy in, you'll probably do really well. If you just want to buy yourself a job, forget it.
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Old 17th Nov 2003, 02:15
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Question

I think I am doing it for less money...
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Old 17th Nov 2003, 02:44
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Mmmmmh . . . . . ?

I think I am doing it for Less money already FOR A GOOD REASON.

I choose my present job because there are very different kinds of helicopter piloting jobs, but two main groups are . .

1.- The boring jobs

2.- The fun jobs

I could easily be making twice as much flying a B430 with a rich guy from
Bldg. "A" to Bldg. "B" always with bitchy pax on board and flying 20 hours a month, or going up and down the same hill all the time.

This is not for me, I became a helicotpter pilot to escape from routines, to be where the action is, if were about money I go for my familly's business instead.

MY PRESENT JOB PAYS LESS THAN THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, but is NEVER the same, I fly 5 different types, and rarely do the same type of flying twice in a week, I might start the week doing some ENG/News thing, the next day is doing all the flying required on a helicopter that's coming out of the shop after the skids were left smiling, and finish the week going to a Bullfighting cattle ranch to take pictures and upon return I went to pick up an injured skydiver to take him to the hospital (this was actually my week)

So you see to some pilots like yours truly, its not ONLY about the money . . . .

The flying has to fun! that is priceless.
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 21:38
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Hours spent finding and merging 'training' threads made me think it might be a good time to resurrect this discussion.

Our membership continues to grow and newer members may not have seen this thread.

Well .................... would you?
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Old 22nd Jan 2004, 22:22
  #134 (permalink)  
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Rotary Wing (RW) aviation has many disciplines, IFR, VFR, aerial work (external load, long line), rescue, resource flying, offshore, EMS, mountain ect., ect. There are only a handful of pilots that can claim to be a master in all disciplines.

RW pilots recognize the professionalism required for each discipline, and therefore an IFR Super Puma Captain can respect the skill required of a JetRanger pilot working in the mountains.

The PLANKERS on the other hand only respect the guys flying the bigger iron.
Example a Dash 8 pilot will respect the professionalism of a B737 pilot but not a twin otter pilot, the 737 pilot looks up to the A340 guy ect.,ect..

Of course I could be full of crap, and the opinions I express are my own.

Would I do it again eh; yea. It’s better than cutting trees for a living.
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Old 23rd Jan 2004, 09:47
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

IHL..well said! There is alot of mutual respect within the profession regardless of the type and profile of the work concerned. Unfortunately, the pay is not always the same.
But alot of small machines can and do make good revenue for operators and pilots alike. Because we are so diverse in our groups, it is very hard to standardize the pay we earn. Union's and other association have attempted to do this, and with some degree suceeded. But only for pilots in large companies with specific profiles. However, as one gains experiance thru their collective experiance ( pardon the pun) they usually can command a better pay and operate bigger and more sophisticated equipment...if thats what they want. When I was in the Army we received flight pay, even in training. As we put in the years we had significant increases in pay..including any promotion and time in pay grade. Compared to some of my friends who are Plank Drivers, I actually earn more. Some Helipilots have to get creative in how they earn their income.
You can work with the Police and expect £37k to £47k.
Or you can work Offshore with relatively the same flight hours in a multicrew environment for 10 years and get significantly more.
Please xcuse the spelling...it's getting late!!!!
Or go logging in Juneau, Alaska for 6 months and earn as much as $150k .......Gulf Helicopters pay their Captains $48k to $52k, 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off. Thats about £31k to £33k, but then
thats without paying tax! The skill qualifications determines the pilots ability to have a greater choice of aircraft. Having said that there is a shocking dilemna in our biz: How can you get a job with hardly any experiance, when you can't get experiance without a job!!! Unless you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to join the military, be very wealthy, or just damn lucky, it takes along time and alot of sweat, blood and tears from adolescence to sitting at the controls of a multi-million pound
machine and getting paid for it. And when you get there, your are either to old or too scared to give it up...because your life has been consumed and focussed arriving at this point
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Old 23rd Jan 2004, 10:38
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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I think one of the reasons that the pilots here have been so quick to justify what they do reguardless of pay or conditions is that I imagine most of us have no choice about what we do.

From that first horrible morning when you wake up and realize that you want to fly your life is no longer your own, you have no choice, you don't choose to fly helicopters...they choose you and if that happens it doesn't matter how you justify it or how else you look at it their is nothing else that feels like it and you won't be happy doing anything else.

So I suggest that we bend over take it like men and get on with it because that's what we do best
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Old 25th Jan 2004, 01:20
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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It has been quite a walk, going thru these posts starting from Bert's first. Thank you Bert for raising the subject.

My flying experience has been privileged. I have listened to and read about the experiences of others who went the civilian bush route, both fixed-wing and fling-wing, and I recognize it must have been much harder for them than for my route to aviation through the military.

Some posts have commented that people fly because they can't do anything else. Well, there are others like myself - high marks at university, completed the degree, worked in a professional capacity, then left the profession to join the military and became a pilot. I like to tell people that I left my profession for a life of travel, excitement, and adventure - which I got in spades!

I had never flown before, didn't know a schmick about flying, and the only predictor of possible success at it was the aircrew selection centre experience. Military flying when I joined, provided training on prop jobs, then jets, and included a variety of exciting things like low-level flying, aerobatics, and formation flying that a civilian training path did not provide. But on wings grad I was assigned to helicopters and that opened a whole new world to me and an unbelievable variety of jobs and experiences, including tactical (bush), shipborne, SAR, and instructor roles. Later in my career I came back on to fixed-wing.

While suffering in a ground job for a few years, I got my commercial heli licence and flew some civilian contracts - firefighting on one job and geological survey on another.

Since leaving the military, I have also left flying and now work for a charitable org.

In the Air Force we used to say flying beats working for a living!

Heli flying was like the sports car of the air - always hands on and quick reaction required around each unpredictable corner. As many in this forum have said, there were a lot of fun times. But there were also things to complain about and I recognized some of the drawbacks that commercial guys faced everyday, most of which we in the military didn't have to worry about, but some we did.

Fixed wing on the other hand took you to some great and exotic places but to get there, the only interesting things were some take-offs and some landings. The rest could be pretty boring.

Piled on top of the flying were some good things about the military and also the not so good.

But I can't imagine my life having been any more exciting and rewarding doing anything else, including what I had been doing in my profession before joining the military.

Any flying job has this in common with any other job - do I really want to keep doing this or would I give anything to be doing something else? Military pilots have to do that in relation to the option of civilian flying or other work. Heli pilots have to do that in relation to other flying options or other non-flying jobs.

And the pay? Some army guys would complain about the extra flying pay the pilots received. A proper response? Submariners allowance was higher than flying pay but I wouldn't trade my job for theirs. Bottom line - if you want the same pay as somebody else, go out and get that job or one with that same pay. But one thing is for sure, from those who have been there and done that, its not worth pursuing a job just because it pays more. Somehow, most of us survive in the end, regardless of the pay differences.

If we would rather keep at our current job, then we should sit back and enjoy the ride, making the most of what's good, and doing whatever we can to minimize or change the bad stuff.

When the time comes to leave it all behind, that's a different kind of challenge and it takes all you've got to keep leaving it all behind.

So enjoy it while you can. Life is shorter than you think.
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Old 3rd Feb 2004, 04:13
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Cool Employment

Just wondered if anybody out there had the lowdown-ie not crewroom gossip- on what jobs are out there. I have 2500 hrs on a variety of helicopter types and have reached that point where working outside is more than something to be whistfully talked about. I have the usual helicopter pilot committments to support - maintenance, large mortgage and a young family...so can anyone give any advice?

ATPL(H) is on the way and I am not really interested in being an airline pilot and want to remain in the South East. Any clues?
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Old 3rd Feb 2004, 15:18
  #139 (permalink)  
Helibelly
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fish

It sounds like your in the forces, well no doubt you get plenty of time to read the pprune pages. Employment on the outside is not at the stage of begging for pilots. For heli work you've got on-shore, where you're going to have to either take a pay cut or try and get one of the direct employment police jobs (which are like hens teeth). Off-shore work is much better paid but again browse the threads and you'll soon get a feel for where the jobs are, or rather are not at present. On the plus side when you do get a job you'll fly alot more and do less paper work. If you're tied into the old 12 month PVR thingy then go for it, twelve months is a long time in civil aviation. Good luck!
 
Old 11th Feb 2004, 04:13
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Helibelly

Thanks for the reply, and I kind of figured that it was difficult to get a job (even though I wished I had time to sit and read PPrune loads). As you guessed, I am a mil pilot, but the time draws near where I have to start making decisions and either sell my soul and stay in and risk becoming the guy in the corner of the crewroom, or step outside.

Outside interests me since things have changed and I want to offer my family more stability. However, I want to remain in the SouthEast and I have to earn enough to pay the maintenance to my first family (not my fault!!).

So really, what jobs are out there? Who do we approach? What tips can people offer? Any good steers for someone with 2000hrs+, ATPL(H) on the way and enthusiasm?

I know it's scary, but it's sometimes too easy just to stay in and take the money and accept that spending increasing amounts of time away are a feature of life. I dearly love what I do, I have to be pragmatic.

So, anyone offer any help/guidance out there?
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