Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLY FOR FUN.....ITS THAT SIMPLE......If I could do something part time (however boring) that would put food on the table for my family, pay the bills, have a half decent quality of life and fly for fun!!!! I would swap in an instant....GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yes flying for a living can be fun, but like any job it can also be very boring. If you've got the cash do your flying for pleasure not as a way to watch your overdraft increase your car get older! Spend your well earned dosh on a nice aerobatic thing and do the competitions, buy into a nice twin and go touring, see europe without all the hanging around in depature lounges, but a helicopter and enjoy the freedom of hovering and landing in your back garden, but under no cicumstances try to make money out of aviation, as the joke goes, how do make a million in aviation, invest ten million....
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are right, you know. I was going to jack it all in to do my ATPL, but saw sense. I would imagine I am taking home about a quarter of what you do a month.
Why not go and see a lifestyle guru, to see if there is a better balance to be struck, along the lines of less work/more flying/same money? How about working somewhere where you can fly to work? How good would that be. One of our local millionaires commutes almost daily in his 109 from the north of the Island to the UK.
You, as I, are a lucky man. Unfulfilled perhaps, but lucky.
STANDTO
Why not go and see a lifestyle guru, to see if there is a better balance to be struck, along the lines of less work/more flying/same money? How about working somewhere where you can fly to work? How good would that be. One of our local millionaires commutes almost daily in his 109 from the north of the Island to the UK.
You, as I, are a lucky man. Unfulfilled perhaps, but lucky.
STANDTO
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked in the city as well until the flying bug became incurable,
20 years later I don't regret the move, but I will never again have the lifestyle I enjoyed. Stay where you are, fly for fun and make the rest of us jealous. Believe me, Trying to tell the pax that you can't land at their house due to the fog, staying away from the ice at this time of year and surviving the half wits who think a helicopter can land anywhere despite your explanations about rules, performance and fuel just becomes plain hard work. I often wonder why we accept such low status and pay when we are very much the exposed part of aviation.
20 years later I don't regret the move, but I will never again have the lifestyle I enjoyed. Stay where you are, fly for fun and make the rest of us jealous. Believe me, Trying to tell the pax that you can't land at their house due to the fog, staying away from the ice at this time of year and surviving the half wits who think a helicopter can land anywhere despite your explanations about rules, performance and fuel just becomes plain hard work. I often wonder why we accept such low status and pay when we are very much the exposed part of aviation.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: United States
Age: 62
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STAY WHERE YOU ARE. I made the transition 16 years ago to operate them and I've had some amzing times with good people who all love the business (you have to like it to even contemplate staying in it), but I've also seen how sick the aviation industry is overall, of course including heli ops. In 10 years you might as well be driving a bus except you get all the regulation and expense that goes with running the space shuttle.
If I could do it all over, I would definitely have just continued doing it for fun and enjoyed my life. From an operator standpoint it is so true....how do you make a small fortune.....start with a large one. If you've got the bug, buy another heli with a lease back arrangement and fly when you want to, and that way you can at least keep good food and wine on the table.
My 2p worth.
If I could do it all over, I would definitely have just continued doing it for fun and enjoyed my life. From an operator standpoint it is so true....how do you make a small fortune.....start with a large one. If you've got the bug, buy another heli with a lease back arrangement and fly when you want to, and that way you can at least keep good food and wine on the table.
My 2p worth.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are two issues:
1. Wannabes from other careers always look at the positives of flying for a living and never, ever look realistically at the bad points. Oh, they *say* they do, but they don't. It's just human nature to accentuate the positive. And there is a huge, multi-faceted downside to commercial flying. Much of it has been discussed here before - the low pay, the time away from home, the very early and late hours, the lack of benefits, the pressure to fly, the maintenance issues...just to name a few.
And that's not even taking into consideration the challenges of flying the helicopter! Most pilots egotistically think that they can handle any situation thrown at them or task that is asked of them. Wrong! The accident reports are chock-full of instances where the pilot's skill was not up to the ability required. It's not just about moving the controls and knowing *how* to do a confined-area approach, say. A monkey can be taught the procedure.
But what do you do when you get to a site landing and you're circling overhead, lump in your throat, trying to figure out a safe way *in* to this ridiculously tight place that the customer says we've landed at "plenty of times with that other pilot," and you haven't even begun to consider that you won't even be able to depart with the load you've got on right now because your brain at this point can't think that far ahead... And so you get it on the ground without bending it, your passengers all depart, leaving you alone with the bird to fend for yourself, and as the engine cools down you begin to look around at what you've just gotten yourself into and you realize that your departure out of this Godforsaken hover-hole will be after dark and you go, "Oh, ****..."
And that's just *one* scenario. Yet one that I've been faced with numerous times in my career. Oh yes, I've been there.
Flying is not all black-and-white decisions. It's nice to sit in our computer chairs and pontificate that all cockpit decisions are easy. They are not. And sometimes the decisions we make require incredible knowledge, experience and skill. Is this a "downside" to flying for a living? Perhaps not, although it is something that must be taken into consideration - in a broad sense, sometimes the things that are asked of you will make you very, VERY uncomfortable, and that's not a good place to be. Especially when your life (and that of your passengers) is on the line.
2. The other thing that career-switchers don't acknowledge is that if you're bored in one field, you'll likely be bored in another. There is no magic career-pill that will make your life fulfilling and exciting. For sure, flying for a living can be viscerally thrilling. It is a combination of technical and artistic demands that challenge and reward both sides of the brain. But make no mistake, at the end of the day it is just a JOB. Yes, I love the feeling of watching the world drop away as I pull pitch. No, I don't love the bull**** that goes along with the job anymore. It gets friggin' old.
I always say: If you want to fly, fly! Don't come on here asking for justification or rationalization, or reasons pro or con for there are none. (Or at least a "pro" for me might not be so for you - something helicopter pilots seem to forget.) We who do it for a living are all a little bit crazy. We have to be. We know that the decision to pursue this as a career is not a logical, sane one. It is fraught with peril and uncertainty and there are no guarantees. But for most of us there was no choice. Most of us didn't sit down, all calmly and seriously analytical, weighing the advantages and disadvantages of our possible career choices. We fly because...well, just because. If we thought about it too much we probably wouldn't.
And if you have to think about it too much, you probably shouldn't.
1. Wannabes from other careers always look at the positives of flying for a living and never, ever look realistically at the bad points. Oh, they *say* they do, but they don't. It's just human nature to accentuate the positive. And there is a huge, multi-faceted downside to commercial flying. Much of it has been discussed here before - the low pay, the time away from home, the very early and late hours, the lack of benefits, the pressure to fly, the maintenance issues...just to name a few.
And that's not even taking into consideration the challenges of flying the helicopter! Most pilots egotistically think that they can handle any situation thrown at them or task that is asked of them. Wrong! The accident reports are chock-full of instances where the pilot's skill was not up to the ability required. It's not just about moving the controls and knowing *how* to do a confined-area approach, say. A monkey can be taught the procedure.
But what do you do when you get to a site landing and you're circling overhead, lump in your throat, trying to figure out a safe way *in* to this ridiculously tight place that the customer says we've landed at "plenty of times with that other pilot," and you haven't even begun to consider that you won't even be able to depart with the load you've got on right now because your brain at this point can't think that far ahead... And so you get it on the ground without bending it, your passengers all depart, leaving you alone with the bird to fend for yourself, and as the engine cools down you begin to look around at what you've just gotten yourself into and you realize that your departure out of this Godforsaken hover-hole will be after dark and you go, "Oh, ****..."
And that's just *one* scenario. Yet one that I've been faced with numerous times in my career. Oh yes, I've been there.
Flying is not all black-and-white decisions. It's nice to sit in our computer chairs and pontificate that all cockpit decisions are easy. They are not. And sometimes the decisions we make require incredible knowledge, experience and skill. Is this a "downside" to flying for a living? Perhaps not, although it is something that must be taken into consideration - in a broad sense, sometimes the things that are asked of you will make you very, VERY uncomfortable, and that's not a good place to be. Especially when your life (and that of your passengers) is on the line.
2. The other thing that career-switchers don't acknowledge is that if you're bored in one field, you'll likely be bored in another. There is no magic career-pill that will make your life fulfilling and exciting. For sure, flying for a living can be viscerally thrilling. It is a combination of technical and artistic demands that challenge and reward both sides of the brain. But make no mistake, at the end of the day it is just a JOB. Yes, I love the feeling of watching the world drop away as I pull pitch. No, I don't love the bull**** that goes along with the job anymore. It gets friggin' old.
I always say: If you want to fly, fly! Don't come on here asking for justification or rationalization, or reasons pro or con for there are none. (Or at least a "pro" for me might not be so for you - something helicopter pilots seem to forget.) We who do it for a living are all a little bit crazy. We have to be. We know that the decision to pursue this as a career is not a logical, sane one. It is fraught with peril and uncertainty and there are no guarantees. But for most of us there was no choice. Most of us didn't sit down, all calmly and seriously analytical, weighing the advantages and disadvantages of our possible career choices. We fly because...well, just because. If we thought about it too much we probably wouldn't.
And if you have to think about it too much, you probably shouldn't.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
Well said, rotordog, and you've just given a good description of the elements of Captaincy, which is now what you need on top of airmanship (discussed in another thread somewhere)
Phil
Phil
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Posted 22:20hrs Friday evening. Get a better wine merchant.
2. The entry gate for commercial flying are the CPL/ ATPL exams. From the City, book in with London Guildhall and take the 14 (or 9) exams as a DL course and see if you still find flying interesting after a hard days work followed by a hard evenings studying Gen Nav & Flight Planning.
3. Then take the CPL(H) course and GFT and see if an instructor knocks off some rough corners in your flying.
4. Then try it out flying connercial missions at weekends to see if it is interesting. Probably like bus driving.
5. Then put together a business plan to either fly commercially as a career or set up a company to do so. If the numbers do not stack up, reject plan and continue as before having lost nothing but some drinking time you spent learning to fly better and safer (the CPL/ ATPL - delete as applicable).
6. Most jobs are boring. Some pay better and allow you to spend you time more wisely. Consider all actions wisely before reacting. Think also of what you may do in 20 years time, not just in 2005 (may be a nice career for later in life having secured the pile, etc) Grass always greener in next field, etc etc etc ...
NB Nice day for flying today. Sheffield to the Isle of Wight and back. 3 away landings incl a confined area helipad (thanks Muffin). Ho hum, must go and think about work on Monday now ...
h-r
2. The entry gate for commercial flying are the CPL/ ATPL exams. From the City, book in with London Guildhall and take the 14 (or 9) exams as a DL course and see if you still find flying interesting after a hard days work followed by a hard evenings studying Gen Nav & Flight Planning.
3. Then take the CPL(H) course and GFT and see if an instructor knocks off some rough corners in your flying.
4. Then try it out flying connercial missions at weekends to see if it is interesting. Probably like bus driving.
5. Then put together a business plan to either fly commercially as a career or set up a company to do so. If the numbers do not stack up, reject plan and continue as before having lost nothing but some drinking time you spent learning to fly better and safer (the CPL/ ATPL - delete as applicable).
6. Most jobs are boring. Some pay better and allow you to spend you time more wisely. Consider all actions wisely before reacting. Think also of what you may do in 20 years time, not just in 2005 (may be a nice career for later in life having secured the pile, etc) Grass always greener in next field, etc etc etc ...
NB Nice day for flying today. Sheffield to the Isle of Wight and back. 3 away landings incl a confined area helipad (thanks Muffin). Ho hum, must go and think about work on Monday now ...
h-r
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SE England
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helicopter Redeye:
Great post, and the best advice I have seen on here in ages.
Chopperchav:
You've got the helicopter (and a very nice one, if it's the one I'm thinking of that I was drooling over yesterday...
), so why not give the commercial licence a run? As Redeye says, at the worst you'll decide you don't want to fly for a living, you'll still be enjoying your Raven II and your flying will have improved significantly.
Go for it!
DBChopper
Great post, and the best advice I have seen on here in ages.
Chopperchav:
You've got the helicopter (and a very nice one, if it's the one I'm thinking of that I was drooling over yesterday...
), so why not give the commercial licence a run? As Redeye says, at the worst you'll decide you don't want to fly for a living, you'll still be enjoying your Raven II and your flying will have improved significantly.Go for it!
DBChopper
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wembury, Devon
Age: 51
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the good advice guys. Great observational skills Mr Redeye, you spotted what a sad man I am with nothing better to do on a Friday night.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not some city toff who has just bought himself a new toy and developed some soon to pass romantic notion of flying for a living. I have been fascinated with flying for as long as I can remember and if I didnt have the eye-sight of Mr Magoo, would of probably worked my way up through the business the hard way. Now thanks to the wonders of laser surgery I can get a class 1 medical and fulfill a dream.
The purpose of this post was just to hear experiences of people who have made a late career change to flying and how they have got on. I will try and plod on in the city for a few more years and get this flying thing out of my system. I have a feeling I wont though so maybe I can contribute something to the industry in the future and try not to blow the kids inheritance in the process. Anyway, surely Mr Bristow has made a few quid from helicopters.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not some city toff who has just bought himself a new toy and developed some soon to pass romantic notion of flying for a living. I have been fascinated with flying for as long as I can remember and if I didnt have the eye-sight of Mr Magoo, would of probably worked my way up through the business the hard way. Now thanks to the wonders of laser surgery I can get a class 1 medical and fulfill a dream.
The purpose of this post was just to hear experiences of people who have made a late career change to flying and how they have got on. I will try and plod on in the city for a few more years and get this flying thing out of my system. I have a feeling I wont though so maybe I can contribute something to the industry in the future and try not to blow the kids inheritance in the process. Anyway, surely Mr Bristow has made a few quid from helicopters.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
Mr Bristow certainly has made a few quid from helicopters, but that wasn't from flying them! You obviously have some business acumen from surviving in the city for so long, so why not start a helicopter company? You can't do any worse than some of the bozos who do, and crash spectacularly around a year later.
Phil
Phil
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chav,
Just a little aside and I don't want to rain on your parade but have you got the medical? It's just that I know someone (admittedly a couple of years ago) who had a Class1 initially declined because they had laser surgery on their eyes. They had to battle with the CAA and get all sorts of specialist opinions before it was granted.
Please check with them first what their stance is on laser surgery now.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Just a little aside and I don't want to rain on your parade but have you got the medical? It's just that I know someone (admittedly a couple of years ago) who had a Class1 initially declined because they had laser surgery on their eyes. They had to battle with the CAA and get all sorts of specialist opinions before it was granted.
Please check with them first what their stance is on laser surgery now.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
is that the airlife one? They missed a lot out of the original manuscript, so I took over publication myself - pm me your address and I will send you the one I did
I know Nigel at EMH picked up a few points from the original, so good luck!
Phil
I know Nigel at EMH picked up a few points from the original, so good luck!
Phil
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: heli above
Age: 53
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Career advice for a young upstart.........
Hope you chaps can help out someone who wants to start a career with a challenge to it rather than fly fixed wings like all my mates!
Wonder if the fellow ppruners on this site can advice so that I go in with my eyes open instead of blindly checking out the web sites and spending a fortune on books, training to find at the end I am not up to scratch!
Is it better to go and have private lessons to learn to fly or try and join one of these training courses and get on a sponsorship programme if I can.
Realistically if I get through everything what is there at the end of it jobs etc without going into the military?
If I get through and then loose my medical are there a lot of opportunities that you can still use what you have gained in a ground position/office or they limited?
Ideally I would love to go for Crash Investigation at the end of it all, is this a possibility and do you still keep current if the Department or a relevant company takes you on?
Sorry for all the questions but before I mortgage my life and soul I want to know if it is worth going into at the end of the day with a sound career at the end of the hard slog.
Mainly cos all my friends, being fixed wing laugh at me wanting to go in this direction!
Thanks
Wonder if the fellow ppruners on this site can advice so that I go in with my eyes open instead of blindly checking out the web sites and spending a fortune on books, training to find at the end I am not up to scratch!
Is it better to go and have private lessons to learn to fly or try and join one of these training courses and get on a sponsorship programme if I can.
Realistically if I get through everything what is there at the end of it jobs etc without going into the military?
If I get through and then loose my medical are there a lot of opportunities that you can still use what you have gained in a ground position/office or they limited?
Ideally I would love to go for Crash Investigation at the end of it all, is this a possibility and do you still keep current if the Department or a relevant company takes you on?
Sorry for all the questions but before I mortgage my life and soul I want to know if it is worth going into at the end of the day with a sound career at the end of the hard slog.
Mainly cos all my friends, being fixed wing laugh at me wanting to go in this direction!
Thanks
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love this bit:
Oh yeah, fixed-wing are a snap! No challenge at all. Pish-posh, piece of cake. Why would anyone even bother!
First thing you need is an attitude adjustment, boy. The challenges in helicopters are merely different; you perceive them as "better." No wonder your fixed-wing friends laugh at you- they don't even bother to do it behind your back.
Nobody can tell you if it's "worth" it. In fact, it's a silly question which only *you* can answer. Do your homework about the aviation industry. If you like helicopters, then pursue helicopters. But if you like helicopters simply because you think that mastering this challenge makes you better than any other type of pilot, well, you'll be laughed at by more than just your fixed-wing friends.
Hope you chaps can help out someone who wants to start a career with a challenge to it rather than fly fixed wings like all my mates!
First thing you need is an attitude adjustment, boy. The challenges in helicopters are merely different; you perceive them as "better." No wonder your fixed-wing friends laugh at you- they don't even bother to do it behind your back.
Nobody can tell you if it's "worth" it. In fact, it's a silly question which only *you* can answer. Do your homework about the aviation industry. If you like helicopters, then pursue helicopters. But if you like helicopters simply because you think that mastering this challenge makes you better than any other type of pilot, well, you'll be laughed at by more than just your fixed-wing friends.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Wales
Age: 48
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotordog, I understand you getting pi**ed off with youngsters posting on rotorheads with questions like "Is it worth it" or what would you do in my situation" but I also think these newbies should be cut a little slack. Unfortunatley the wannabes forum is all about fixed wing training and rotorheads is the only one to deal with helicopters, so where else are they supposed to go? Some people joining for the first time dont even know there's a search function on pprune. If you dont want to read their questions, don't click on them.
Helidecks, as heliport say's click on the search link and type in what sort of information your looking for. There have been loads on helo wannabes asking these sorts of questions and some of your questions could be answered there.
Don't be put off, were a nicer bunch than them plank drivers, honest!!!
Helidecks, as heliport say's click on the search link and type in what sort of information your looking for. There have been loads on helo wannabes asking these sorts of questions and some of your questions could be answered there.
Don't be put off, were a nicer bunch than them plank drivers, honest!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1 deg south, avoiding Malaria P Falciparium
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmmm man its hard.. but I have only had 2 beers and I am gonna behave...
as heliport said check the old threads..do some home work, search the web, go to the airport talk with a pilot (what a concept), then come back I will personally answer specfic non previously discussess/ addressed questions...
good luck
The kinder, gentler
RB
see whirly I went to sensitivity training
as heliport said check the old threads..do some home work, search the web, go to the airport talk with a pilot (what a concept), then come back I will personally answer specfic non previously discussess/ addressed questions...
good luck
The kinder, gentler
RB
see whirly I went to sensitivity training