BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
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Vintage Krug
I think BASSA may already be in default on clause 28 because they have apparently said that records are not available. Small point you are entitled to ignore.
The 'elections section' of your post describes a potential minefield with added anthrax, cluster bombs, and GPS-guided bunker-busting missiles for BASSA if they haven't observed the detailed requirements of the Act.
Has the market in administrative ineptitude been cornered? Possibly.
The 'elections section' of your post describes a potential minefield with added anthrax, cluster bombs, and GPS-guided bunker-busting missiles for BASSA if they haven't observed the detailed requirements of the Act.
Has the market in administrative ineptitude been cornered? Possibly.
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Ancient Observer,
I think some of your information, about how BA survey our customers now, is a bit out of date.
We have not been handing out survey forms for two or even three years or more now. Which is great because on E/F our business passengers used to find it very annoying.
We do them electronically by sending them to our passengers homes by email now and so the figures I quoted on the other thread have had no intervention from the cabin crew at all.
Also as a senior crew member I have my own set of figures which are based on ONLY my flights. So BA are very aware of which senior crews are performing well and as a matter of fact, Mixed Fleet crew receive a bonus based on how they as senior crew perform and how their fleet as a whole performs.
My personal scores are well above the average and I am very proud of this and it, along with the desire to give good customer service, motivates me a lot.
So I think, understandably, you may be a bit out of date with your information.
These are my own personal views
I think some of your information, about how BA survey our customers now, is a bit out of date.
We have not been handing out survey forms for two or even three years or more now. Which is great because on E/F our business passengers used to find it very annoying.
We do them electronically by sending them to our passengers homes by email now and so the figures I quoted on the other thread have had no intervention from the cabin crew at all.
Also as a senior crew member I have my own set of figures which are based on ONLY my flights. So BA are very aware of which senior crews are performing well and as a matter of fact, Mixed Fleet crew receive a bonus based on how they as senior crew perform and how their fleet as a whole performs.
My personal scores are well above the average and I am very proud of this and it, along with the desire to give good customer service, motivates me a lot.
So I think, understandably, you may be a bit out of date with your information.
These are my own personal views
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@ Betty girl ... I'm not trying to stir, I assure you, but I'm trying to get my head round this crew position aspect.
As I read it, you are saying that the more senior crew avoid working in CW because "it's not a good product at the moment". Does that mean they're embarrassed to be involved with it? Or that the CC side of things in the galley is difficult to make work?
Can you elaborate a bit further? The more SLF understand the issues, the more sympathetic they're likely to be [I hope].
As I read it, you are saying that the more senior crew avoid working in CW because "it's not a good product at the moment". Does that mean they're embarrassed to be involved with it? Or that the CC side of things in the galley is difficult to make work?
Can you elaborate a bit further? The more SLF understand the issues, the more sympathetic they're likely to be [I hope].
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A bit of both really.
It is a messy service to do and does not flow well and takes a lot longer than some of our previous club services for no apparent reason other than it was not thought out well, as I have said it is bound to be revamped soon because of this.
Crew do get embarrassed to constantly be having to apologise re wine selection and running out of the main meal choice too and this does happen sometimes, well every day really, in the Club cabin.
The crewing levels on BA aircraft are tight if the cabin is full and although crew understand why the CSD needs to work in the cabin and for many of us it is a good thing because standards are usually very high from our CSD community, so it is good that they serve our customers and set standards for other crew to emulate, but if they get called away to sort out a problem with IFE or a disgruntled passenger etc etc. it can cause the club service to slow down and take longer to complete if it is a full load of passengers.
Just, human nature that some will avoid this but of course there are some crew that enjoy working there and as I have said on every aircraft, in every airline there are always some more popular positions to work but generally crew do work in all different cabins because it varies so much from day to day how far up the list you are anyway.
Hope that helps.
These are my personal views and not those of BA
It is a messy service to do and does not flow well and takes a lot longer than some of our previous club services for no apparent reason other than it was not thought out well, as I have said it is bound to be revamped soon because of this.
Crew do get embarrassed to constantly be having to apologise re wine selection and running out of the main meal choice too and this does happen sometimes, well every day really, in the Club cabin.
The crewing levels on BA aircraft are tight if the cabin is full and although crew understand why the CSD needs to work in the cabin and for many of us it is a good thing because standards are usually very high from our CSD community, so it is good that they serve our customers and set standards for other crew to emulate, but if they get called away to sort out a problem with IFE or a disgruntled passenger etc etc. it can cause the club service to slow down and take longer to complete if it is a full load of passengers.
Just, human nature that some will avoid this but of course there are some crew that enjoy working there and as I have said on every aircraft, in every airline there are always some more popular positions to work but generally crew do work in all different cabins because it varies so much from day to day how far up the list you are anyway.
Hope that helps.
These are my personal views and not those of BA
Last edited by Betty girl; 3rd Mar 2011 at 12:39.
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I do find it odd in this day and age you can shop online for all manner of things, but you can't select your choice of meal when you purchase your seat (or at any time up to a few days before the flight).
Surely this would make things easier all round, and probably cheaper because you could then load only the F&B you actually require?
I realise there would be the exception to the rule (missed flights, etc.), but surely it would benefit everyone if the CC had a list of the people in Club identifying exactly which meal and choice of drink they would prefer before they got on the plane?
If my company is anything to go by, the IT department and the business units have trouble communicating, mainly because the IT people don't understand the sharp end of the business, and the sharp end business people don't understand IT.
Does BA have a suggestion scheme?
Surely this would make things easier all round, and probably cheaper because you could then load only the F&B you actually require?
I realise there would be the exception to the rule (missed flights, etc.), but surely it would benefit everyone if the CC had a list of the people in Club identifying exactly which meal and choice of drink they would prefer before they got on the plane?
If my company is anything to go by, the IT department and the business units have trouble communicating, mainly because the IT people don't understand the sharp end of the business, and the sharp end business people don't understand IT.
Does BA have a suggestion scheme?
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I’ve flown with BA on many occasions and in all cabins (bar First). What I’ve read on here is at completely at odds with my experience of a dedicated, experienced, engaging and intelligent workforce.
We all have our own experience, mine is very much a mixed bag from the very best to the very worst of service.
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I think it would be very hard to administer your idea and many passengers miss their flights due to weather, connections etc. etc and some people can't predict what they will feel like eating the day before.
All passengers can order a special meal if they have a dietary requirement such as vegetarian or diabetic etc and this can be done on manage my booking up to 48 hours before flying.
Are you asking if there is a suggestion scheme for staff. No we used to have one but now we all have the ability to let our managers know our ideas and there are forums that you can post ideas on that our managers look at and often respond on.
If you mean for passengers. Yes. You can log on to BA.com and at the very bottom of the front page there is a link where you can forward comments to BA on.
These are my own views
All passengers can order a special meal if they have a dietary requirement such as vegetarian or diabetic etc and this can be done on manage my booking up to 48 hours before flying.
Are you asking if there is a suggestion scheme for staff. No we used to have one but now we all have the ability to let our managers know our ideas and there are forums that you can post ideas on that our managers look at and often respond on.
If you mean for passengers. Yes. You can log on to BA.com and at the very bottom of the front page there is a link where you can forward comments to BA on.
These are my own views
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Without exception. I've arrived onboard extremely frustrated at times. However, I can honestly say, I've never had any problem with a single person from BA cabin crew who I find incredibly patient and welcoming. I've had plenty to gripe about KLM and AirFrance crew however.
Have no doubts about it, the service in BA Club has gone downhill over the past 4/5 years. The planes are old, the in flight entertainment constantly breaks down - nothing to do with the cabin crew however.
As said before, I find them intelligent and engaging, BA should be proud of them.
Have no doubts about it, the service in BA Club has gone downhill over the past 4/5 years. The planes are old, the in flight entertainment constantly breaks down - nothing to do with the cabin crew however.
As said before, I find them intelligent and engaging, BA should be proud of them.
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Betty Girl
At the risk of contradicting you, I flew to Budapest last week in Club and was indeed asked to complete a feedback form (perhaps this differs from the old questionnaire). The flight was operated by MF and apart from the CSM there was another CC working, On the return the CSM was on her own throughout. .
Food was excellent on both sectors.
Oddly enough, or perhaps not, travelling in CW as a staff passenger I was given the old questionnaire on at least 3 ocassions. This kind of confirms your view that full fare paying passengers did not like being asked.
I understood that the forms should have been given out according to seat number. My guess is that CC chose me due to the fact that they knew I was staff AND am always appreciative of the service I am getting. That MAY also account for the fact that I have rarely received poor service.
At the risk of contradicting you, I flew to Budapest last week in Club and was indeed asked to complete a feedback form (perhaps this differs from the old questionnaire). The flight was operated by MF and apart from the CSM there was another CC working, On the return the CSM was on her own throughout. .
Food was excellent on both sectors.
Oddly enough, or perhaps not, travelling in CW as a staff passenger I was given the old questionnaire on at least 3 ocassions. This kind of confirms your view that full fare paying passengers did not like being asked.
I understood that the forms should have been given out according to seat number. My guess is that CC chose me due to the fact that they knew I was staff AND am always appreciative of the service I am getting. That MAY also account for the fact that I have rarely received poor service.
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moses,
Thanks for that lovely comment, you don't know how good that is to hear.
I know that you often get, the disenchanted posting on threads like this because most people that are happy, have nothing much to say, so don't bother seeking out these kind of sites.
I would not be hear myself if it wasn't for this silly IA stuff going on.
I know that the vast majority of my passengers seen very happy but I sometimes want to slash my wrists! after reading some of the comments on hear and it is really nice to hear your positive comments for a change.
Thanks BG.
Thanks for that lovely comment, you don't know how good that is to hear.
I know that you often get, the disenchanted posting on threads like this because most people that are happy, have nothing much to say, so don't bother seeking out these kind of sites.
I would not be hear myself if it wasn't for this silly IA stuff going on.
I know that the vast majority of my passengers seen very happy but I sometimes want to slash my wrists! after reading some of the comments on hear and it is really nice to hear your positive comments for a change.
Thanks BG.
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I understand that customer feedback will also be gathered via the new IFE with a brief questionnaire popping up for the passenger to complete on screen. No selecting who gets one by crew and no handing it back to crew either.
On the face of it that would seem to be a good system.
With regards to positive feedback from customers my partner (WW PSR) often recieves letters from her manager when her manager has recieved a positive letter from a customer on one of her flights, it surprises me how often this happens btw.
I can tell you all that she works very hard and it makes her day when she gets one of these letters, which in turn can often make my day too as a result
So if you are quick, as I am, to write when it is dire do please do the opposit when it's great, it does have an effect, even if only to the quality of my evening.
On the face of it that would seem to be a good system.
With regards to positive feedback from customers my partner (WW PSR) often recieves letters from her manager when her manager has recieved a positive letter from a customer on one of her flights, it surprises me how often this happens btw.
I can tell you all that she works very hard and it makes her day when she gets one of these letters, which in turn can often make my day too as a result
So if you are quick, as I am, to write when it is dire do please do the opposit when it's great, it does have an effect, even if only to the quality of my evening.
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Great Balls,
I have no idea what that survey form was and will ask my manager if Mixed Fleet are handing out surveys on only their flights but it is definitely not normal.
It saves BA a fortune not having them on board now and the results are more scientific because it is totally random instead of using seat numbers etc.
I have seen a lot of Mixed Fleet flights going out with two senior crew on and it will probably be because some of them are new and are being given a supernumerary flight to show them the ropes or it could have been a Mixed Fleet manager doing a check flight because they wear exactly the same uniform as the CSMs. Maybe that's what the survey was about, don't know I am afraid.
I just realised that the second crew member may not have been a CSM. If it is a 319 you only get three crew unless the Club cabin has more than 20 passengers, then you get a forth. If it is a 320 you get four crew always but if the club load goes over 40 you get a fith on that Bud route. That is probably why you had one at the front one way and two the other.
These are my own views
I have no idea what that survey form was and will ask my manager if Mixed Fleet are handing out surveys on only their flights but it is definitely not normal.
It saves BA a fortune not having them on board now and the results are more scientific because it is totally random instead of using seat numbers etc.
I have seen a lot of Mixed Fleet flights going out with two senior crew on and it will probably be because some of them are new and are being given a supernumerary flight to show them the ropes or it could have been a Mixed Fleet manager doing a check flight because they wear exactly the same uniform as the CSMs. Maybe that's what the survey was about, don't know I am afraid.
I just realised that the second crew member may not have been a CSM. If it is a 319 you only get three crew unless the Club cabin has more than 20 passengers, then you get a forth. If it is a 320 you get four crew always but if the club load goes over 40 you get a fith on that Bud route. That is probably why you had one at the front one way and two the other.
These are my own views
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Great balls,
What was this feedback form like was it a 'your thoughts' leaflet, because these are supposed to only be given out if passengers ask for a comments form to give feedback, good or bad.
Crew should not be soliciting passengers to complete them in the hope that you might put down something nice about them to feed back to their manager!!. Was it a survey where you had to tick boxes or was it a small leaflet where you could write down a nice comment or a complaint depending on how you felt.
Just interested because obviously no one should be actively asking passengers to complete comments cards unless the passenger has himself asked to.
But of course Mixed Fleet may have been asked to get a different kind of form filled out that the rest of us don't know about!!
these are my thoughts and I don't speak for BA
What was this feedback form like was it a 'your thoughts' leaflet, because these are supposed to only be given out if passengers ask for a comments form to give feedback, good or bad.
Crew should not be soliciting passengers to complete them in the hope that you might put down something nice about them to feed back to their manager!!. Was it a survey where you had to tick boxes or was it a small leaflet where you could write down a nice comment or a complaint depending on how you felt.
Just interested because obviously no one should be actively asking passengers to complete comments cards unless the passenger has himself asked to.
But of course Mixed Fleet may have been asked to get a different kind of form filled out that the rest of us don't know about!!
these are my thoughts and I don't speak for BA
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Betty Girl
It has been said by CC on many occasions "Don't tar us all with the same brush" when you say:
You are very near doing that to your passengers. I am sure I am in the majority when I say that I don't care what gender/age/sexual persuasion (or any other description you care to insert) the cabin crew are providing I get courteous and efficient service. In return I will treat them in a polite and respectful manner.
Just to illustrate that not all complaints are about BA. I recently had the misfortune to suffer poor service during two of another airline's flights.In the first instance, I complained to the crew member concerned, then later to the senior CC member (who giggled when I complained to her). I wonder if she will still be giggling when her line manager takes it up with her. If BA had served that route I would have flown with them.
Anyway, only a few posts ago some of you were saying that you WANTED to be served by the younger crew, obviously the LESS senior you are the more likely you are to be young!! So you should be happy! No!!Or is it just that some of you will never be happy!!! Just joking!!
Just to illustrate that not all complaints are about BA. I recently had the misfortune to suffer poor service during two of another airline's flights.In the first instance, I complained to the crew member concerned, then later to the senior CC member (who giggled when I complained to her). I wonder if she will still be giggling when her line manager takes it up with her. If BA had served that route I would have flown with them.
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Betty Girl
It was a more of an opportunity to share your thoughts, positive or negative. Very different to the old tick sheet.
I suspect you are right that I was given the form in order to solicit some positive feedback as I did make a comment to the effect that I liked the food, service and the HATS!!
I always make a point of thanking the cabin crew anyway.
Are MF CSM bonuses linked to feedback forms?
It was a more of an opportunity to share your thoughts, positive or negative. Very different to the old tick sheet.
I suspect you are right that I was given the form in order to solicit some positive feedback as I did make a comment to the effect that I liked the food, service and the HATS!!
I always make a point of thanking the cabin crew anyway.
Are MF CSM bonuses linked to feedback forms?
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Greatballs,
Well their bonuses are linked to their customer survey results, I think collecting comments cards is a way of bringing their good performance to the attention of their Manager and having it noted on their file.
Maybe I should start doing that!! Only joking!!
Dawdler,
I see your point but I did say some because I do know that many of you are very supportive of BA and us crew and that is very kind of you all..
I just thought it was a bit perverse that some posters were openly saying a couple of days ago that they were keen to have young crew serve them and only a few days later some were moaning that the more 'experienced crew' ie. the ones that have been working for BA for longer and therefore generally older crew were not choosing to work in Club. It just made me laugh that's all. As I said on Worldwide the majority of crew will be very experienced whatever cabin they work in.
Thanks for your nice comments about BA, it's lovely to hear.
Well their bonuses are linked to their customer survey results, I think collecting comments cards is a way of bringing their good performance to the attention of their Manager and having it noted on their file.
Maybe I should start doing that!! Only joking!!
Dawdler,
I see your point but I did say some because I do know that many of you are very supportive of BA and us crew and that is very kind of you all..
I just thought it was a bit perverse that some posters were openly saying a couple of days ago that they were keen to have young crew serve them and only a few days later some were moaning that the more 'experienced crew' ie. the ones that have been working for BA for longer and therefore generally older crew were not choosing to work in Club. It just made me laugh that's all. As I said on Worldwide the majority of crew will be very experienced whatever cabin they work in.
Thanks for your nice comments about BA, it's lovely to hear.
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Betty Girl
Over on the CC thread it was made clear that crew positions are dictated by seniority and that this led to Club being staffed by the least senior crew because it is the hardest/fiddliest/unflowingest. The criticism was that the most experienced (regardless of age) should be trusted with the most challenging tasks and not vice versa. Perfectly valid opinion but not one I share necessarily.
Firstly, is it true?
Secondly, is it right?
Firstly, is it true?
Secondly, is it right?
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Mrpony,
As I have said all crew on worldwide are experienced, I shouldn't think that you would get many that have flown for less that 5 or 6 years except maybe the odd temp and most of them are on their second season, so they are ALL very experienced to do the Club service.
Please see my post a few above where I explain why some crew, not all, may choose to work elsewhere and that all will inevitably work in club on some flights due to there being so many crew and seniority varies wildly from flight to flight. One flight someone could be most senior and another they could be 7th etc. Some crew do like Club, some don't but I very much doubt that that would affect the service they gave you.
I am not sure why, which positions crew work in, is such a problem, I hear that Mixed Fleet crew also don't like the club service and some of the CSMs on that fleet have not themselves been flying for even 5 or 6 years let alone the rest of the crew.
All aircraft have popular positions and not so popular, for instance on E/F some crew are not keen on doing the Duty Free sales but other crew just love it. That's just how it is. It's not because they don't like Club passengers because our regular business travellers are the most laid back and easiest passengers to serve, it's just the current product that some don't like.
These are my views and not those of my employer.
As I have said all crew on worldwide are experienced, I shouldn't think that you would get many that have flown for less that 5 or 6 years except maybe the odd temp and most of them are on their second season, so they are ALL very experienced to do the Club service.
Please see my post a few above where I explain why some crew, not all, may choose to work elsewhere and that all will inevitably work in club on some flights due to there being so many crew and seniority varies wildly from flight to flight. One flight someone could be most senior and another they could be 7th etc. Some crew do like Club, some don't but I very much doubt that that would affect the service they gave you.
I am not sure why, which positions crew work in, is such a problem, I hear that Mixed Fleet crew also don't like the club service and some of the CSMs on that fleet have not themselves been flying for even 5 or 6 years let alone the rest of the crew.
All aircraft have popular positions and not so popular, for instance on E/F some crew are not keen on doing the Duty Free sales but other crew just love it. That's just how it is. It's not because they don't like Club passengers because our regular business travellers are the most laid back and easiest passengers to serve, it's just the current product that some don't like.
These are my views and not those of my employer.
Last edited by Betty girl; 3rd Mar 2011 at 16:13.
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Old Spanish practices
Reading the CC thread on crew allocation, I'm aghast.
I used to work on Fleet Street - old Spanish practices, and clocking in as M Mouse. Look what happened to them.
As pax I'm not at all comfortable with self-allocation or seniority... Whatever happened to management?
I used to work on Fleet Street - old Spanish practices, and clocking in as M Mouse. Look what happened to them.
As pax I'm not at all comfortable with self-allocation or seniority... Whatever happened to management?