BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV

[MPN11]

Thanks Betty and others for helping this flow along. Some very interesting angles, which may be solved in part by any imminent re-arrangements of CW catering.

It is a messy service to do and does not flow well and takes a lot longer than some of our previous club services for no apparent reason other than it was not thought out well, as I have said it is bound to be revamped soon because of this.

"Messy" because ... why? Because we have our meals in CW delivered by instalments, instead of being delivered en-masse?

Crew do get embarrassed to constantly be having to apologise re wine selection and running out of the main meal choice too and this does happen sometimes, well every day really, in the Club cabin.

I don't recall ever failing to get my meal choice, but the wine issue is certainly a PITA for everyone. I know the wine list points out some choices may not be loaded, so why does BA print them in the first place?

As to the chilled red, coming from the same freezer cabinet as the cutlery, I remain confused ... if only the white wines could be put in there, instead of being kept nice and warm. That's "Messy", and happens to me on nearly every trip.

[seat 13a]

Don't give up...

Please don't give up, Betty girl - we need the feedback. But don't you sometimes think you can't defend the indefensible...?

[Maddie Baddie]

Most crew on WW are very senior and experienced. The least senior crew would have been recruited at least 5 years ago with exception of some temporary crew would be on either their second or third contract which would be equivalent to almost two or three years flying. Even if they are left with the last working position in Club World they are well experienced.

Crew have different preferences where to work and choose their working position accordingly. Some prefer to work in a certain cabin whilst others prefer to choose a position based on whether it's on main or upper deck, 1st or 2nd break or a duty free position.

There are, however, crew who will avoid certain cabins at any cost and work in the same cabin every time whenever possible. Personally I have noticed that since imposition in 2009 that Club World has become a less preferred cabin to work in whilst World Traveller has become more popular. Having said that, even before imposition it would vary depending on aircraft, destinartion and time of the day as every set of crew is different.

[Betty girl]

Well the thing is, I don't think it is as bad as you are all making out!

It's good to have crew working in cabins they LIKE to work in.

Even Mixed Fleet crew put down a preference of where they would like to work.

What would be the point on Worldwide fleet, of the CSD randomly putting crew in cabins that they might not like working in. BA is so big it is very unlikely that he has flown with more than a third of them before.

I have heard that it is quite sycophantic on Mixed Fleet as all the crew are vying for the favour of the CSMs.

[MPN11]

Thanks, Maddie ... I see your point clearly.

That broadly conforms with my view, as pax in CW; some CC are happy to be there doing the job, and some clearly aren't.

Anyway, I'm vaguely glad the CC get a choice. The SLF don't, of course. I suppose the next SLF question has to be "Why do we pay this much money for a Lottery Ticket?"

It just doesn't sound right to me.

[Maddie Baddie]

It's good to have crew working in cabins they LIKE to work in.

I totally agree with you but there's a problem that many crew constantly at the bottom of the seniority list, which we know won't be changing to their benefit, are being left with less favourable working positions. In my experience they are since imposition in Club World. I know of several fairly senior crew (at least they would be on EF) on WW who are always being left to work in Club World.

Crew who actually enjoyed working in Club World have moved themselves to the back of the aircraft. Not necessary because the cabin has become more demanding since working with less crew but also because of the reasons which you have mentioned previously.

I think it's something BA would need to adress in the future but I doubt very much the union will agree to anything else as they consider choosing your working position according to your seniority is a privilege. It's a privilege when you have enough seniority to be one of the first to choose but not when you are at the bottom of the seniority list which will never change.

[mrpony]

Nurse Betty Girl

You are putting savlon on this cross-thread infection but haven't cleaned the wound first!

Here's my interpretation of what happens:

1.Club is the last position chosen by the overwhelming majority.

2.Position choice based on seniority means that the very senior never do it and the very junior do it nearly always. P.S. see Maddie says so.

3.Service in Club suffers in a slight but noticeable way because it is the hardest to do but is remunerated in the same way as the easier positions - it makes you less happy or more grouchy depending on your approach to life.

Your solution seems to be to make Club easier/flowier/simpler. I'd do the opposite and make the other positions equally difficult!

Not really.

[Maddie Baddie]

It's good to have crew working in cabins they LIKE to work in.

I totally agree with you but there's a problem that many crew constantly at the bottom of the seniority list, which we know won't be changing to their benefit, are being left with less favourable working positions. In my experience they are since imposition in Club World. I know of several fairly senior crew (at least they would be on EF) on WW who are always being left to work in Club World. For example, before imposition certain positions in World Traveller were the least favourable ones because they included boarding duties and looking after passengers with special needs to name a few.

Crew who actually enjoyed working in Club World have moved themselves to the back of the aircraft. Not necessary because the cabin has become more demanding since working with less crew but also because of the reasons which you have mentioned previously.

I think it's something BA would need to adress in the future but I doubt very much the union will agree to anything else as they consider choosing your working position according to your seniority is a privilege. It's a privilege when you have enough seniority to be one of the first to choose but not when you are at the bottom of the seniority list which will never change.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by rethymnon

Whether this is a pejorative term is surely age related? When you get to a certain age yourself (I have) ' matronly' is far from unattractive!

Absolutely. It is a feminine and age related comment, which when used in the context of a work environment could potentially be discriminatory.

Punters can freely comment on this, but BA would not be able to deliver.

[MPN11]

It is a messy service to do and does not flow well and takes a lot longer than some of our previous club services for no apparent reason other than it was not thought out well, as I have said it is bound to be revamped soon because of this.

Still hoping for some sort of response.
What is so "messy" and/or "non-flowing"?
Could someone explain what the problems actually are?

If it impacts on the SLF, and we understand the problems faced by WW CC, then OUR comments and/or complaints to BA could be more effective ... and make things easier for you in the process.

[Betty girl]

Maddie Baddie. I agree with what you say. I mentioned on the CC thread that it needed to change for exactly the same reason as you mention but what I was trying to explain, not very successfully, on this thread, is that, all the crew are very experienced and just because it wouldn't be their first choice of position, and for some it still is their first choice, it does not mean they will get unhappy crew.


Yes you are right that because there are going to never be any new crew on E/F and WW the system should get changed because why should the very junior crew always get no choice for ever more. I agree with you but not sure if the CSD deciding would be good either, maybe it should be left to a computer, mind you BA computers haven't got a record of being very fair either!!!. Maybe the replacement for 'Tracie' computer can roster people more fairly and allocate positions using fair share, who knows!!!

[TopBunk]

Originally Posted by betty girl

... maybe it should be left to a computer,

but isn't that exactly what BA proposed about 2 years ago with its premium crew initiative? Computer rostering to ensure everyone familiar with all roles?

There a re some Pursers who we all know who have palpitations if they didn't work in First and had to work Economy. OK, some crew aren;t First trained, but in general BA wanted to ensure the rest had relevant and recent experience of all positions. The problems on the day when a senior purser is called out to work from QRS and ends up as WT purser are quite amusing!

All this of course was scuppered by BASSA -as usual, iirc.

[Colonel White]

Slight thread drift... apologies in advance

...maybe it should be left to a computer, mind you BA computers haven't got a record of being very fair either!!!. Maybe the replacement for 'Tracie' computer can roster people more fairly and allocate positions using fair share, who knows!!!

Ahem... as one of the IT brethren I would like to point out that the algorithms employed in computer systems are all as specified by the business area (in this case cabin crew) and that they will have been agreed with the TU's in that area. So if you think that the way in which rosters are planned is unfair, it is likely to be because that is what the union (in this case BASSA and CC89) agreed was reasonable. If the system doesn't currently allocate positions it is not because the capability did not exist when the system was being built, it is almost certainly because the union would not accept a system that did that task. In my time I have seen really good cost saving measures get watered down simply because if implemented they would have resulted in a walk out by staff. BA had plans for vehicle tracking systems in the early '90s that got shelved because ground handlers realised that it would highlight the inefficiences and kicked up a stink. The technology finally came in just as BA was moving into T5 - some ten years later.

[Betty girl]

Well I am sure you are both right and it is the same as the pilot seniority system, once you start to get more senior, you don't want the system changed.

The difference from now and two years ago is that with the cabin crew seniority, some people will now remain at the bottom forever as no new crew will ever join Worldwide again.

So maybe it is time that they somehow change the system but I doubt it is anyone's priority at this time!!

[PAXboy]

MPN11

I don't recall ever failing to get my meal choice, but the wine issue is certainly a PITA for everyone. I know the wine list points out some choices may not be loaded, so why does BA print them in the first place?

Once the menu is available on the seat back display - this will stop as they can then just display what has been loaded. Getting rid of the silly bits of card, with their related cost, is long overdue.

Once upon a time, they wanted CW to feel like F and a good High Street restaurant with the menu card. I think we all understand the way the system works and don't need that. Oh, the other thing to do for all CW + F pax is the option to receive the menu choice when you check in - not before - as an SMS, possible as MMS with pictures of the dish. You then respond by SMS and they can load up more appropriately. Note I am NOT saying 100% but if they see that one dish is more popular, they change the mix.

I usually travel now in WT+/PE cabins and they have often worked through what I want as the things I cannot eat are not on the alternative menu lists. That is, I can't choose a dish that has no spices or black pepper or pasta. So I often have to reject three dish choices and then ask if they can get me one 'from another cabin' and they usually can.

Once they have got the SMS menu on check in sorted for F + CW, then it can be expanded to WT+/WT. I worked in telecommunications/IT for 27 years and I know that it's not difficult. Almost, you might say, a piece of cake.

Now, can I charge BA for my consultancy fee when they implement this?

[ChicoG]

Yes, I have to say that if you make a meal selection and decide the day before that you don't fancy it at least it's your fault, and you can probably still eat it.

There's nothing more irritating for me than supposedly having three meal choices and then finding that, due to your seat and bad luck, you're left with only the choice of something you can't even eat!

If you can preselect special meals, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to preselect ANY meal.

A properly managed system of pre-selected meals is entirely workable with today's technology, and as I said before, the people that say it isn't understand the business but not the IT. The logistics are a piece of the proverbial.

[MCOflyer]

ChicoG

Already done on Singapore Airlines. It's called "Book the Cook" and you can choose one of many selections up to 30 days prior to your departure date. I'm flying JFK - FRA in business class and selected the rack of lamb from eight possible choices.

[ChicoG]

Already done on Singapore Airlines. It's called "Book the Cook" and you can choose one of many selections up to 30 days prior to your departure date. I'm flying JFK - FRA in business class and selected the rack of lamb from eight possible choices.

Thanks for that. And that's the kind of airline I'd fly. I was on Cathay last year and they were doing a food festival up front with a selection of dishes from a famous Hong Kong chef. It's this kind of thing that attracts me to fly.

The days of "Chicken or Beef" should be long gone, and well done to the airlines trying to improve the onboard experience in this manner.
I digress. No doubt BASSA would call this interfering with their work.

[GrahamO]

Would it be fair or unfair to say that as a result of its higher than market staffing costs, that BA is unable to offer these kind of options ?

Spending the same on staff costs as other full service airlines, getting the right service levels and be able to offer better food - or is that too simplistic ?

[Lord Bracken]

One could make a very strong argument that cutting food cost has been the easy way out for BA over a number of years: the Club 'slop and drop' bowls don't shout "strike!" at the drop of a hat, for example.