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-   -   BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV (https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/441165-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions-iv.html)

TightSlot 30th Jan 2011 07:46

BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions IV
 
The story continues..........................

Landroger 30th Jan 2011 10:52

May I just ensure that my recollection of matters discussed in this thread is more or less clear?

To date - in something like two years - no BASSA supporter has posted a clear, well argued, fact based explanation of their case?

Mr. Holley - or some doppleganger of his - has posted on this thread, although largely rhetoric and unsubstantiated gobbledegook aimed at the emotions of his flock, rather than to support what is virtually unsupportable?

BA have, on the whole, said very little on the grounds that rationalising with BASSA tends to be an oxymoron. They have mostly stated their intention and then done what they said on the tin.

Because of the nature of a transient and remote work force, coupled with an almost cast iron strangle hold on communications with them by one party, the 'normal' implications of Union ballots has been distorted to the point of irrelevance? A big vote in favour of a strike does not actually imply a big turnout at the picket lines, indeed almost the opposite?

The majority - by a very large margin - of bullying and harassment has been of non strikers by strikers - no fact based evidence to the contrary has every been seen by this thread?

The people who set up and expanded the PCCC have, thus far, remained largely unknown for very obvious and understandable reasons. They have though achieved a great deal with very little, although with the remarkable support of many passengers?

The only reasoned support of any union view has been by Litebulbs - not directly involved with the BASSA dispute - and even he expresses some disbelief in the way BASSA act and have acted. He and 'Eddy' have been left to at least clarify possible points of view and moderate any Daily Mail tendencies in this thread - for which thanks.

It is difficult for anybody, let alone we SLF, to see where BASSA can or will go next?

Roger.

rethymnon 30th Jan 2011 12:48

where next for Bassa?
 
'it is difficult to see where BASSA can go next' - or words to that effect.

remind me, what did the oozlum bird do?

however, a brilliant and pithy summary of two years progress.

Litebulbs 30th Jan 2011 13:45


Originally Posted by Landroger (Post 6212401)

1. To date - in something like two years - no BASSA supporter has posted a clear, well argued, fact based explanation of their case?

2. It is difficult for anybody, let alone we SLF, to see where BASSA can or will go next?

Roger.

1. I think there has been some debate on this. The biggest fact is that BA is still here and does that fact change the fight for survival to an opportunity to remove staff cost? Now I know it is a balance and it is in no way as simple as that, but to me, it is for the employer to take the staff along the road and the first job is to convince rather than dismiss the reps. But as a rep, I would say that. Have the savings so far been more or less than the cost of lost business (200000) and contingency?

2. I know the rhetoric by some on pprune likes to dismiss any action as ineffectual, but 6000 no's after two years is still a huge number and so is the cost of past and future disruption.

I wish more Bassa members posted, but I doubt that from my experience,the battering that you sometimes get, will make some of the less thick skinned think why bother.

Hotel Mode 30th Jan 2011 13:56


I wish more Bassa members posted, but I doubt that from my experience,the battering that you sometimes get, will make some of the less thick skinned think why bother.
They're pretty thick skinned. A quick look at the BA section of Cabincrew.com will show them at their best. Bullying mixed fleeters and claiming anyone who disagrees is a pilot or a manager.

The reason they dont come here is because they cant peddle their lies and exagerration with impunity. If somebody came on here and actually presented a cogent, well thought through and sensible argument without blaming everyone else then I'm sure their views would be listened to if not liked. It comes to something when their best spokesman is a rep from another part of Unite.

Litebulbs 30th Jan 2011 14:48

Just for the record, I am not a spokesperson for Unite or Bassa, just an interested party, who happens to be a workplace rep and as such, my views are my own and in now way represent the views of Unite/Bassa/Amicus etc. etc.

Hopefully you are still allowed to have a view that you can express in a public discussion forum. :mad: :confused:

Betty girl 30th Jan 2011 16:54

There is a poster on the site that Hotel Mode mentions called 'ally' and I would happily put a bet on that it is DH or another union rep. He says that he does not work for BA but knows every detail, even the details of DH's next hearing!!!

Chuchinchow 30th Jan 2011 19:49


He says that he does not work for BA but knows every detail, even the details of DH's next hearing!!!
If it is DH, then he is telling the absolute truth for once.

Sporran 30th Jan 2011 20:16

Betty Girl,

Just had a quick look - and it is so good to get back to 'the university of adults' from the 'kindergarten' over there.

This thing called 'ally' is rude, obnoxious and totally deluded. he is not on his own though cos there is also some REALLY sad and hateful thing called huw on wings.

Landroger 30th Jan 2011 21:59

Litebulbs
 
My initial remark was to the effect that no BASSA supporter had posted a fact based outline of the CC case, LB.


The biggest fact is that BA is still here and does that fact change the fight for survival to an opportunity to remove staff cost? Now I know it is a balance and it is in no way as simple as that, but to me, it is for the employer to take the staff along the road and the first job is to convince rather than dismiss the reps.
As I read this and the other thread over the years, it seemed to me that the fight for survival was exactly that and was the entire reason for negotiating with all the other departments and Unite branches. Having successfully negotiated with all the other sections, it remained for the Cabin Crew to ante up. Week after week BASSA were constipated and BA issued what amounted to an ultimatum - crap or get off the pot. Now we know how it played out.

It seemed to me that BA were trying to convince rather than punish, but, as time went on BASSA became more defensive and cornered by their own attitude. With direct contact with their own employees virtually impossible and the provocation becoming too much to ignore, BA began to take steps. Legal and, in the minds of many, very restrained steps.


2. I know the rhetoric by some on PPRuNe likes to dismiss any action as ineffectual, but 6000 no's after two years is still a huge number and so is the cost of past and future disruption.
But as I said LB, if a contrary organisation has hijacked the communications link between employer and employee, simply by using utter rubbish to blind those employees to reason and then telling them to completely ignore their employer because everything they say is a lie, what is that employer supposed to do? The huge vote in favour of Industrial Action was, I'll admit, quite impressive, but when the reality of walking out came round, the vote looked a bit 'overstated'. And so it has gone on.


Just for the record, I am not a spokesperson for Unite or Bassa, just an interested party, who happens to be a workplace rep and as such, my views are my own and in now way represent the views of Unite/Bassa/Amicus etc. etc.
I knew that LB and I'll admit it has been rather amusing to see other forumeers accuse you of supporting BASSA. :ugh: You may not, as you say, be the official Unite spokesperson, but you are however, by default, the voice of reason from the the union side, so to speak. Given that that they are unable or unwilling to make their own case for themselves.

Roger.

LD12986 30th Jan 2011 22:26


Holley should win his tribunal.

It was clearly a case of constructive dismissal
Regarding this post on the crew thread, for DH's sake, I hope his lawyers know the difference between constructive and unfair dismisal. DH was sacked rather than forced to resign.

Litebulbs 30th Jan 2011 22:42

Roger
 
My point about the fight for survival is that BA has survived. Has BA actually made any saving within the crew community today? It will have saved, but there has been a cost too.

Long term viability is obviously very important, but what happens if the profits are even further up this year?

Weak, I know, but it is late.

yotty 30th Jan 2011 22:52

I thought that if you were sacked from BA you would not get a pension, you would just received what you had paid in?

notlangley 31st Jan 2011 04:07

No decision is a Decision.
 
In the Soviet Union it was said "no answer is an answer".
I wonder if, next week, we will discover that no decision to set dates for the strike is the decision by Unite the Union._ There will be several consequences of this - one is that the new contract will not have been removed from the table._ Quite soon (next month?) there will be a pay differential between those on the new contract and those who are not._ The pay differential is a tiny amount - not likely to influence anyone - but there is some quite primitive sadness about being left out of a pay rise.

hula 31st Jan 2011 05:41


what happens if the profits are even further up this year?

We can finally start investing in our aircraft. airport experience and on-board product again! And all have some sort of profit share!!:eek:

Joao da Silva 31st Jan 2011 08:05


But as I said LB, if a contrary organisation has hijacked the communications link between employer and employee, simply by using utter rubbish to blind those employees to reason and then telling them to completely ignore their employer because everything they say is a lie, what is that employer supposed to do?
Sort it out, very quickly!

Mariner9 31st Jan 2011 08:33


Long term viability is obviously very important, but what happens if the profits are even further up this year?
In the ideal world BASSA would ask to see the accounts (having signed a confidentiality agreement) and use them to negotiate a realistic, affordable improvement to their members' T&C's in their role as a progressive, engaging union.

In the current (un)real world, BASSA will refuse to negotiate with BA, then refuse to put BA's offer to their members. They will then convince their membership to vote for further IA which will be carried by the majority of their remaining, ever shrinking, membership.

Do I have a career as a fortune teller? :ok:

Entaxei 31st Jan 2011 09:09

There is a very good case for BA to say to BASSA, you show me yours and I'll show you mine - talking accounts of course!! :E

Mariner9 31st Jan 2011 12:39

I see we have a new BASSA mouthpiece on the other thread.

He/she seems very interested in the funding of the PCCC. Wonder what his/her reaction would be upon seeing some earlier comments from some of our regular SLF correspondents on here that they would happily contribute to the PCCC :ok:

Ancient Observer 31st Jan 2011 13:19

I see that the junta have nominated one of their "helpers" to be a new troll over on the CC only thread. As their knowledge of BA CC is limited, they would seem to be one of the SWP members that have hijacked this dispute for their own strange ends, (or rather, the strange ends of the multi-millionaires that control SWP).

Anyway, rather than answering where bassa have spent their net income of nearly 1 million pounds per annum over the last 5 years, they appear to be fixated about who paid 150 for the pccc's registration as a TU. 5 million versus 150!!!

As a matter of fact, I did not pay that 150. I was not asked to. Had I been asked to, as I'm unemployed, finding a spare 150 would not have been easy, but I would certainly have tried!

Now for the 4,000 for full certification.

I believe that the T & G/Unite do and have done a great job in many circumstances, but that their spoilt teenager in bassa is making a mess of the T & G's reputation.


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