Ascoteers Multiple Choice
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Reichmann,
I can understand you developing an inherent dislike of some movers - after all it must be unusual for someone to get on with everybody. I know for a fact that some of the RAF movers had a similar regard for some of the aircrew they had to work with. Me, I don't think I ever had a cross word from any RAF guy in 24 years service (until here - thank you !!!) - mind you, there was an RAF Police Corporal that was unfortunate enough to give me a mouthfull once .............. (he, he ,he). I just used to cop the passengers after you and your colleagues had finished with them (think back to your story from Brize eh).
What I think this demonstrates is that there is wide spectrum of human flotsam working in all of three services, some good, some indifferent and some dreadful. I now work outside and I'll tell you a little story from my recent past - a large NHS Trust were consistently failing to produce the goods, to the extent where the HSE were about to get all excited. At the meeting with the Chief Exectutive of the Trust, she apologised to all and explained that "all of her brain surgeons were busy doing brain surgery and weren't available for other tasks".
Anyway, thank you for your time - I may take Impiger's advice and post my question in a new thread. Next time you bump into a Mover, just think of "Brain Surgery".
To the moderator - I apologise for disrupting your thread.
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
I can understand you developing an inherent dislike of some movers - after all it must be unusual for someone to get on with everybody. I know for a fact that some of the RAF movers had a similar regard for some of the aircrew they had to work with. Me, I don't think I ever had a cross word from any RAF guy in 24 years service (until here - thank you !!!) - mind you, there was an RAF Police Corporal that was unfortunate enough to give me a mouthfull once .............. (he, he ,he). I just used to cop the passengers after you and your colleagues had finished with them (think back to your story from Brize eh).
What I think this demonstrates is that there is wide spectrum of human flotsam working in all of three services, some good, some indifferent and some dreadful. I now work outside and I'll tell you a little story from my recent past - a large NHS Trust were consistently failing to produce the goods, to the extent where the HSE were about to get all excited. At the meeting with the Chief Exectutive of the Trust, she apologised to all and explained that "all of her brain surgeons were busy doing brain surgery and weren't available for other tasks".
Anyway, thank you for your time - I may take Impiger's advice and post my question in a new thread. Next time you bump into a Mover, just think of "Brain Surgery".
To the moderator - I apologise for disrupting your thread.
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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Dear Bullman,
I am a pilot not a stand up comedian and, therefore, cannot help the fact that my sense of humour is warped. You have nothing to worry about my flying, though thanks for your concern.
Army Mover,
Nothing personal mate. I put Movers in the same bracket as the French. I've met some good individuals but as a race I can't stand them. Keep on Prooning/bantering here as long as you like.
Luv, Reichman
PS I no longer carry pax so I only get ****ed around when I am one.
I am a pilot not a stand up comedian and, therefore, cannot help the fact that my sense of humour is warped. You have nothing to worry about my flying, though thanks for your concern.
Army Mover,
Nothing personal mate. I put Movers in the same bracket as the French. I've met some good individuals but as a race I can't stand them. Keep on Prooning/bantering here as long as you like.
Luv, Reichman
PS I no longer carry pax so I only get ****ed around when I am one.
The only time I was ever really annoyed with 'The Movers' was when we arrived back at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome from Akronelli with a Vickers Funbus load of wives and nippers in the depths of winter. Being SLF from Cyprus, they were all dressed in non-UK winter clothes. Despite our inbound call to Ops, there was no transport waiting to take them to the Passenger Terminal - they were supposed to manage babies, baby clobber, handbaggage and the like as they trudged through the slush from some remote parking slot (the waterfront, as ever, being jammed with taskless TriShaws). I asked for wheels and overheard the Air Vice Corporal on the pax desk say "Tell them to walk" to the receiving DAMO. So I 'borrowed' the DAMO's radio and 'asked' him to think again about his helpful suggestion. We ended up ferrying the women and children to the Terminal in the crew transport as the alternative would have been a long wait whilst the movers did what they should have done in the first place - sort out some bŁoody transport!
As far as I was concerned, my job didn't stop at HP to OFF - it ended when the pax were safely in the terminal. "Hello, everyone, this is your Captain......" means that's who they'll remember when it turns to doo-doo and all they get is a set of steps and a long cold walk with whingeing rugrats - so yes, you Movers bŁoody well should jump to it and play your part when the captain has a legitimate reason for making a fairly obvious request.
We call it 'customer care' in the real, non-military world!
As far as I was concerned, my job didn't stop at HP to OFF - it ended when the pax were safely in the terminal. "Hello, everyone, this is your Captain......" means that's who they'll remember when it turns to doo-doo and all they get is a set of steps and a long cold walk with whingeing rugrats - so yes, you Movers bŁoody well should jump to it and play your part when the captain has a legitimate reason for making a fairly obvious request.
We call it 'customer care' in the real, non-military world!
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Beairng in mind those that can "do" and those of us that can't teach
You are the "microwave operator" on a standard day trip to Norway and the only difficulty of the day is that you are flying in a "short J"
Unfortunately on a mainly pax run, due to seats lost in vibration areas, the fuc@in thing is about as easy to trim as an eskimo's beaver
and you arrive in destination to be faced with 40 odd "chuffed to fu@k cos they are going home" Marines and a stack of very light freight. The extremely capable, not to mention damnably attracrive, antipodeon DAMO loads the aircraft perfectly but, through no fault of her own the trim is almost in Sweden............but still legal
However on raising the ramp the carefully prepared palletised load, which should allow the satisfaction of the rules of ready access meanders slowly but inevitably towards 245, helping sort out the trim problems but completley blocking off the all singing and dancing electric bog
Do you........
a. Lower the ramp, tell afore mentioned babe that she couldn't load a shopping trolley and she had better get it fuc@in sorted toot sweet
b. Think "fu@k em" they are only grunts, even if they are mostly HUGE GRUNTS
c. Ask the pax if they think they will need said dumpster for the 3 hour leg home and greet the universal chorus of "just get us the fu@k out of here" with a sigh of relief
d. One hour into the 3 hour leg grin sheepishly at the Captain, who during the course of the day has consumed a french stick, a variety of other snacks followed by a quarter pounder with fries blah blah blah during the ground stop, and now needs desperatly to use the aforementioned cabin consumer facility
Then spend the next 3 hours grinning like a wan@ing jap watching him gradualy lower his seat further and further as the impending turtle, now makeing a concerted it's bid for freedom forces him higher and higher in his chair. And of course no one mentions porcelein in any way shape or form for the rest of the trip
al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
You are the "microwave operator" on a standard day trip to Norway and the only difficulty of the day is that you are flying in a "short J"
Unfortunately on a mainly pax run, due to seats lost in vibration areas, the fuc@in thing is about as easy to trim as an eskimo's beaver
and you arrive in destination to be faced with 40 odd "chuffed to fu@k cos they are going home" Marines and a stack of very light freight. The extremely capable, not to mention damnably attracrive, antipodeon DAMO loads the aircraft perfectly but, through no fault of her own the trim is almost in Sweden............but still legal However on raising the ramp the carefully prepared palletised load, which should allow the satisfaction of the rules of ready access meanders slowly but inevitably towards 245, helping sort out the trim problems but completley blocking off the all singing and dancing electric bog
Do you........
a. Lower the ramp, tell afore mentioned babe that she couldn't load a shopping trolley and she had better get it fuc@in sorted toot sweet
b. Think "fu@k em" they are only grunts, even if they are mostly HUGE GRUNTS
c. Ask the pax if they think they will need said dumpster for the 3 hour leg home and greet the universal chorus of "just get us the fu@k out of here" with a sigh of relief
d. One hour into the 3 hour leg grin sheepishly at the Captain, who during the course of the day has consumed a french stick, a variety of other snacks followed by a quarter pounder with fries blah blah blah during the ground stop, and now needs desperatly to use the aforementioned cabin consumer facility
Then spend the next 3 hours grinning like a wan@ing jap watching him gradualy lower his seat further and further as the impending turtle, now makeing a concerted it's bid for freedom forces him higher and higher in his chair. And of course no one mentions porcelein in any way shape or form for the rest of the trip
al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 22nd Feb 2004 at 05:56.
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BEagle et al
Not overly defending the pax staff as I have been embarrassed by the standard of pax handling at the covert Oxonian aerodrome on several occasions but they are fighting a bit of a losing battle with the rest of the station in providing services to the pax. For example ... it takes 2 hours to ground feed a full VC10 load of pax in the event of a delay and thats only if the pax can be transported to the Gateway during a meal time! and if MT can provide buses to ferry the pax to and from the Gateway.
Its all very well complaining on here annonymously about the lack of care but have you actually inofrmed the SAMO of the problems? He cannot do anything about a problem unless it is actually brought to his attention. Alternatively pass your comments to the DTMA standards staff and let them look into it.
But it's not all one sided though. On several inbound Hercs, I have been told to get off and not unload the pax bags by ALMs and Captains until they had left the aicraft. Even though the bags were on the ramp and we would not be interferring the front end crew leaving via the front. But then it only meant the pax had to wait another 15 miins for their bags.
Not overly defending the pax staff as I have been embarrassed by the standard of pax handling at the covert Oxonian aerodrome on several occasions but they are fighting a bit of a losing battle with the rest of the station in providing services to the pax. For example ... it takes 2 hours to ground feed a full VC10 load of pax in the event of a delay and thats only if the pax can be transported to the Gateway during a meal time! and if MT can provide buses to ferry the pax to and from the Gateway.
Its all very well complaining on here annonymously about the lack of care but have you actually inofrmed the SAMO of the problems? He cannot do anything about a problem unless it is actually brought to his attention. Alternatively pass your comments to the DTMA standards staff and let them look into it.
But it's not all one sided though. On several inbound Hercs, I have been told to get off and not unload the pax bags by ALMs and Captains until they had left the aicraft. Even though the bags were on the ramp and we would not be interferring the front end crew leaving via the front. But then it only meant the pax had to wait another 15 miins for their bags.
Certainly did have a discussion with the SAMO at the time! Mentioned that it didn't take rocket science to work out that the manifested load of woman and small children, plus our planned parking slot, plus the winter weather meant that transport would be needed.....
Mind you, I've also experienced the ridiculous ALM vs MAMS atmosphere in the past. Rarely were the MAMS teams those who caused it. Watching 3 lads huffing and puffing trying to load the pallets at Freetown, whilst the ALM tried to find a reason in the book not to bring home a merchant seaman being one of them. "He's coming with us - now give the MAMS chaps a hand" was my solution!
"As easy to trim as an Eskimo's beaver" - liked that line!!!
Mind you, I've also experienced the ridiculous ALM vs MAMS atmosphere in the past. Rarely were the MAMS teams those who caused it. Watching 3 lads huffing and puffing trying to load the pallets at Freetown, whilst the ALM tried to find a reason in the book not to bring home a merchant seaman being one of them. "He's coming with us - now give the MAMS chaps a hand" was my solution!
"As easy to trim as an Eskimo's beaver" - liked that line!!!
Last edited by BEagle; 22nd Feb 2004 at 16:46.
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ABIW
Any knowledgable captain would know to use the white lunchbox (sans contents!) for a dump - as an infamous victor pilot used to quite regularly. Although I would advise not using the pepper flavoured serviette to wipe with.
Any knowledgable captain would know to use the white lunchbox (sans contents!) for a dump - as an infamous victor pilot used to quite regularly. Although I would advise not using the pepper flavoured serviette to wipe with.
Ah yes - wee Jock poo-pong McPlop. Hope he's finished his potty training now that he flies airliners.....
Now that the thread has descended into the lavatorial:
I knew a chap once when I was on 58 Sqn who drank a few cups of coffeee too many before launching off on a LL trip in his FGA9 with 2x230 and 2x100 tanks full of fuel. Landed back a while later bursting for a pee; hobbled into the heads only to discover that the SE fitters had unfortunately managed to glue his immersion suit pee-tube together. He was thus faced with 2 alternatives - try to struggle out of immersion suit, internal g-suit etc with a bursting bladder or just say "Well f*ck it, the suit is u/s anyway...." and let fly!
Guess which option he chose!
Oh well, back to the thread. MAMS movers don't have a particularly enviable job (try Hannover in sticky Tcherman summer trying to load over 100 grunt bergens manually because the RAF's ancient Vickers Funbus doesn't use baggage bins!) - so cut them some slack. But as for the pratt of an ALM who took a football off a young Jockistani soldier on the grounds that it was a 'pressurised container'.....
Now that the thread has descended into the lavatorial:
I knew a chap once when I was on 58 Sqn who drank a few cups of coffeee too many before launching off on a LL trip in his FGA9 with 2x230 and 2x100 tanks full of fuel. Landed back a while later bursting for a pee; hobbled into the heads only to discover that the SE fitters had unfortunately managed to glue his immersion suit pee-tube together. He was thus faced with 2 alternatives - try to struggle out of immersion suit, internal g-suit etc with a bursting bladder or just say "Well f*ck it, the suit is u/s anyway...." and let fly!
Guess which option he chose!
Oh well, back to the thread. MAMS movers don't have a particularly enviable job (try Hannover in sticky Tcherman summer trying to load over 100 grunt bergens manually because the RAF's ancient Vickers Funbus doesn't use baggage bins!) - so cut them some slack. But as for the pratt of an ALM who took a football off a young Jockistani soldier on the grounds that it was a 'pressurised container'.....
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It still makes me laugh that paxing FJ mates have to put their LSJs in the VC10 hold because they have miniflares in them, when there are 4 identical LSJs on the flightdeck. And as for taking nail clippers off people before they board: Why not use the huge fire axe attached to the emergency slide by the rear passenger door?
Reichman
Reichman
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That always puzzled me about the military. We had our own little rule book for dangerous goods (JSP 335 ?), while the civvies have to struggle with the complexities of the ICAO technical instructions. So why does JSP 335 make it so hard for all concerned by requiring all passengers to package them as DAC, when they were designed to be worn inside an aircraft and it would appear that the majority of you pilots would be quite happy for them to fly wearing them. Yet we would allow a passenger to carry his bayonet/knife in his hand luggage (admittedly not anymore post 9/11). I was once summonsed to an arriving Tristar where a distraught Loadmaster explained one of my passengers had carved his initials in the arm of his seat - he claimed it was the RAF's fault for not letting him smoke !!! 
Last edited by Army Mover; 22nd Feb 2004 at 21:38.
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Right enough is enough
You lot with your mover banter **** off to the Movers v Loadies thread where this sort of exchange not only belongs but is extremely welcome
Back to the humour please SPHL
You lot with your mover banter **** off to the Movers v Loadies thread where this sort of exchange not only belongs but is extremely welcome
Back to the humour please SPHL
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LOL - I can take a hint, but in my defence, I didn't start the DAC talk - I'm off, please carry on "Ascoting" or whatever it is you call it, it is quite funny (but please don't tell Sir Peteres wotsits).
Byeeeeeeeeee
Byeeeeeeeeee
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ABIW,
Quite right. But WTF are you posting here when you know your talents are more appreciated on the "other" thread
Can we have more about the lady in Norway please.
Regards
E5
Quite right. But WTF are you posting here when you know your talents are more appreciated on the "other" thread
Can we have more about the lady in Norway please.
Regards
E5
Last edited by Echo 5; 23rd Feb 2004 at 03:05.
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More DAC ?
I know a chap who was recovered to UK from the Falklands for compassionate reasons for 10 days (along with huge shopping list and a bag of cash from the guys on his mountain).
Said chap bought 30 Xmas crackers for the upcoming FIxmas celebrations. Got them home, but thought he ought to check with the people at a secret base somewhere in Oxfordshire that they weren't classed as DAC.
Eventually, he ended up speaking to a sqn ldr in 2 Gp who was the authority for such things. Explained situation, didn't want to cause trouble at the secret base somewhere in Oxfordshire, trying to anticipate and resolve problem beforehand rather than present at check-in.
The sqn ldr confirmed he could give authority for carriage, but was not prepared to do so. My friend very politely asked whether there was some specific rule governing carriage, precedent etc. The response? "I am saying no because I can."
OK says my friend, but if I remove the snaps, then I can presumably carry them on board? "No snags says Sqn Ldr W@nker, just ensure the box is clearly marked and can be opened for the movements staff to inspect.
My friend removed all the snaps, rolled them up individually in silver foil and inserted them in an envelope for safe keeping.
Friend's wife not aware, thinks friend has forgotten snaps and posts envelope to FI. Friend's ac delays. Next ac catches up. Late heliops etc etc. Arrives back at mountain. Delivers entire top 20 Playstation Games, ingredients for chef and so on. Sits down to be handed mail off the same heliops that delivered him, including, you guessed it, the snaps!
Said chap bought 30 Xmas crackers for the upcoming FIxmas celebrations. Got them home, but thought he ought to check with the people at a secret base somewhere in Oxfordshire that they weren't classed as DAC.
Eventually, he ended up speaking to a sqn ldr in 2 Gp who was the authority for such things. Explained situation, didn't want to cause trouble at the secret base somewhere in Oxfordshire, trying to anticipate and resolve problem beforehand rather than present at check-in.
The sqn ldr confirmed he could give authority for carriage, but was not prepared to do so. My friend very politely asked whether there was some specific rule governing carriage, precedent etc. The response? "I am saying no because I can."
OK says my friend, but if I remove the snaps, then I can presumably carry them on board? "No snags says Sqn Ldr W@nker, just ensure the box is clearly marked and can be opened for the movements staff to inspect.
My friend removed all the snaps, rolled them up individually in silver foil and inserted them in an envelope for safe keeping.
Friend's wife not aware, thinks friend has forgotten snaps and posts envelope to FI. Friend's ac delays. Next ac catches up. Late heliops etc etc. Arrives back at mountain. Delivers entire top 20 Playstation Games, ingredients for chef and so on. Sits down to be handed mail off the same heliops that delivered him, including, you guessed it, the snaps!
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You are the capt of a min crew on an Albert tour of the Med in the mid-80s. Your co-pilot, fresh off the OCU wearing his brand new red and black cravat, admits that he has never been to Akrotiri before. You decide to introduce the lad to a kebab and lots of Kokinelli. However, he is but a youth and not yet ready for such an adventure. The following morning it is clear to all, including the EU chap who jumps onboard to check the Eng, that young Bloggs is capable only of sitting in his seat and carrying out the simplest of tasks. After the en-route checks have been carried out you send Bloggs to the top bunk, hoping that he will be useful to you prior to the descent into Gutersloh.
Some time later, while an attractive air trafficker is sat in the RH seat, you realise that you need a pee. Do you:
a. Get the nav to wake up the co and get him back into his seat, thus losing the company of the air trafficker.
b. Cross your legs and continue to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm and hope that the pain will go away.
c. Quietly piss in your suit, while continuing to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm, knowing that the pain will go away.
d. Check that the autopilot is in beam and height modes and the Nav and Eng are happy and then quickly nip to the forward urinal, hoping that the EU Eng is onside and will not bubble you to his pilot mate at Upavon. Return to your seat and continue to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm, knowing that the pain has gone away.
Answer: You chose D. At Gut, the dastardly EU Eng does indeed bubble you and you get E Catted with the Eng and Nav (ALM down the back and unaware of incident). But, never mind, career later restored and you eventually become CFI on the OCU.
Some time later, while an attractive air trafficker is sat in the RH seat, you realise that you need a pee. Do you:
a. Get the nav to wake up the co and get him back into his seat, thus losing the company of the air trafficker.
b. Cross your legs and continue to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm and hope that the pain will go away.
c. Quietly piss in your suit, while continuing to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm, knowing that the pain will go away.
d. Check that the autopilot is in beam and height modes and the Nav and Eng are happy and then quickly nip to the forward urinal, hoping that the EU Eng is onside and will not bubble you to his pilot mate at Upavon. Return to your seat and continue to impress the air trafficker with your boundless wit and charm, knowing that the pain has gone away.
Answer: You chose D. At Gut, the dastardly EU Eng does indeed bubble you and you get E Catted with the Eng and Nav (ALM down the back and unaware of incident). But, never mind, career later restored and you eventually become CFI on the OCU.
OK - just the one 'DAC' tale then...
Trucky 10s weren't allowed to carry pax with 'DAC' on board, but as tankers didn't carry pax (just 'role support personnel'!), no such rule applied. One day we were tasked to train a 10 Sqn crew in the art of AAR trails - and off we set for Saudi Arabia in a virtually empty VC10 with just the crew, groundcrew and some MAMS folk. During the flight I asked what the DAC was. "It's here, sir", replied the ALM and so it was. It consisted of 3 tins of green vehicle paint! Now I'm sure that nowhere in Saudi Arabia is there any paint which has been tested by the Boscombe Down of the MT world down to 20 fathoms and up to outer space; hence Saudi vehicle paint cannot therefore be safely applied to HM's Landies, but why on Earth is there any need for f*****g green paint in the Kingdom of Saud? Isn't it a sort of deserty colour, in general?? Not much in the way of grass or trees, as I recall....
No doubt there was, at precisely the same time, some Army Quartermaster in a vehicle depot in Germany wondering who'd sent him tins of desert-pink paint?
Trucky 10s weren't allowed to carry pax with 'DAC' on board, but as tankers didn't carry pax (just 'role support personnel'!), no such rule applied. One day we were tasked to train a 10 Sqn crew in the art of AAR trails - and off we set for Saudi Arabia in a virtually empty VC10 with just the crew, groundcrew and some MAMS folk. During the flight I asked what the DAC was. "It's here, sir", replied the ALM and so it was. It consisted of 3 tins of green vehicle paint! Now I'm sure that nowhere in Saudi Arabia is there any paint which has been tested by the Boscombe Down of the MT world down to 20 fathoms and up to outer space; hence Saudi vehicle paint cannot therefore be safely applied to HM's Landies, but why on Earth is there any need for f*****g green paint in the Kingdom of Saud? Isn't it a sort of deserty colour, in general?? Not much in the way of grass or trees, as I recall....
No doubt there was, at precisely the same time, some Army Quartermaster in a vehicle depot in Germany wondering who'd sent him tins of desert-pink paint?
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Is that one 'DAC' story each.....?
The Nimrod crew paxing back from Akrotiri by Herc became rather bemused when told at the RAF Plod security check that they were not allowed to carry their dinghy knives on the leg of their flying suits.... step forward one very large, very angry, very bearded Sqn Ldr Det Cdr for a short and rather one-sided interview with Chief Plod. We carried the knives.
...or the look of panic in the eyes of the same crew in April 1982 when, enroute to ASI, the very pretty Shiney 10 ALM was seen taking the pins out of the 4 x Sidewinders lashed to the rear cabin floor as they were labelled "Remove Before Flight" !
....Oops - that was two !
The Nimrod crew paxing back from Akrotiri by Herc became rather bemused when told at the RAF Plod security check that they were not allowed to carry their dinghy knives on the leg of their flying suits.... step forward one very large, very angry, very bearded Sqn Ldr Det Cdr for a short and rather one-sided interview with Chief Plod. We carried the knives.
...or the look of panic in the eyes of the same crew in April 1982 when, enroute to ASI, the very pretty Shiney 10 ALM was seen taking the pins out of the 4 x Sidewinders lashed to the rear cabin floor as they were labelled "Remove Before Flight" !
....Oops - that was two !
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Crikey. Firty farsand views, and only one short of 200 posts, although 100+ posts are from mad cretins.
I think I'll celebrate with a subject close to the heart of every Ascoteer
An a Professional Aviator you must be aware of the rules governing consumption of alcohol in the aviation world.
a) 2 Group Air Staff Order (GASO) 305.115
Crew members are not to take alcohol for a period of at least 12 hours before planned take off time.....alcohol consumption 24 hours before should be modest eg. no more than 2.5 pints of beer or the equivalent.
b) Aha! I know this one. Its Weight (kg) divided by your Height Squared (in metres)…er… deduct your age
c) Full English fry up and anti-kokkinelli serum at the Akrotiri aircrew feeder
d) No drinking within 150 feet of the aircraft
I think I'll celebrate with a subject close to the heart of every Ascoteer
An a Professional Aviator you must be aware of the rules governing consumption of alcohol in the aviation world.
a) 2 Group Air Staff Order (GASO) 305.115
Crew members are not to take alcohol for a period of at least 12 hours before planned take off time.....alcohol consumption 24 hours before should be modest eg. no more than 2.5 pints of beer or the equivalent.
b) Aha! I know this one. Its Weight (kg) divided by your Height Squared (in metres)…er… deduct your age
c) Full English fry up and anti-kokkinelli serum at the Akrotiri aircrew feeder
d) No drinking within 150 feet of the aircraft