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-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

Paper Lad 21st Jul 2012 08:34

Unfortunately leave in QR is not in addition to your days off.

We get a minimum of 8 days off per month but it is averaged over a three month period. Therefore, in the month that leave is taken the minimum days off is exceeded, this gives rostering the opportunity to give less than the minimum 8 off in subsequent months and still achieve the average.

With regard to seniority, QR has fleet and company seniority (also grade seniority). Seniority is not used for trip/days off bidding but is used for leave bidding.

So, again, if you get a fleet transfer or command upgrade you are at the bottom of the respective fleet/grade but maintain your overall company seniority.

All very complicated but that's how it is here!

captmav 21st Jul 2012 09:17

Hang on a minute, surely there is a legal minimum, ie: 1 day off in six, 2 consecutive off in 14?

They can't just average it out...!

Mr. R 21st Jul 2012 10:22


Mr R,
Everything is possible here since even second officers join the 330 fleet straight!
But it's not in your hand, they will decide for you.
oh thanks so what exactly is the criteria then for selection??:confused:

Check Airman 21st Jul 2012 10:50


Unfortunately leave in QR is not in addition to your days off.

We get a minimum of 8 days off per month but it is averaged over a three month period. Therefore, in the month that leave is taken the minimum days off is exceeded, this gives rostering the opportunity to give less than the minimum 8 off in subsequent months and still achieve the average.

With regard to seniority, QR has fleet and company seniority (also grade seniority). Seniority is not used for trip/days off bidding but is used for leave bidding.

So, again, if you get a fleet transfer or command upgrade you are at the bottom of the respective fleet/grade but maintain your overall company seniority.

All very complicated but that's how it is here!
That seems like a very complicated setup. Are there any advantages to that system?

Paper Lad 21st Jul 2012 12:07

Seven days on, followed by a single day off, followed by a further three or four days on is common.......particularly on the 320 fleet.

Advantages:

Company gets maximum work and flexibility from minimum crew.

Crew get".......nope, can't think of anything except, maybe, a bit extra flight pay.

Skyfree 21st Jul 2012 13:03

DOJ DEC A320
 
my freind F/O received last week his DOJ : November 2012 A330.
Is any DEC 320 received DOJ ?
good luck for us!:ugh:

Iver 21st Jul 2012 15:33

The lack of time off sounds extremely fatiguing and potentially hazzardous to personal relationships to say the least. :eek: But we have heard this before several times and it is well known by now. If you go to QR, expect to work hard. Of course, you won't hear about it in the QR pilot presentations catered toward desparate pilots facing complete job loss or downsizing.

Based on the information I have gathered, it sounds like, while all fleets work you hard, some fleets are harder working than others. Most new pilots are not given a personal choice for fleet types - but others only qualify for certain fleets based on their specific hours/experience. So, it sounds like you could rank the fleet types by roster difficulty. Although things could change, it would be good to know in order to manage your expectations. If you are assigned a particular fleet, you may work harder than others assigned different fleets.

Although all fleets will likely work you hard, based on several posts on this forum from pilots on various fleets, rosters from easiest to hardest in terms of hours flown per month and potential for time off could be ranked like this:


A300-600R Freighter (Easiest)
A330/A340
777
A320 (Hardest)


Would people agree/disagree with that assessment? Not sure where the 787 will eventually end up on that list. Clearly longhaul flying may entail worse jetlag across so many timezones - so, even though you fly fewer hours you still feel terrible due to the jetlag factor...:yuk:

To refresh peoples' memories (and, if these are still accurate, to help manage expectations) see two posts written by QR A320 pilots a few months back as well as a "sample" A330 and 777 roster posted by QR pilots previously - not certain if the situation has changed or impoved since it was written (certainly hope so but doubt it). :eek: Any updates I am sure would be appreciated:


For those contemplating joining QR, here is an actual roster for A320 Captain.The month and specific destinations have been omitted to protect the innocent. All times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.

This roster has the minimum eight days off, of which seven are at home and one is in a hotel (Day 1). 92 block hours and 160 duty hours (= salary QAR42,500). Generally it is unusual to get days off at outstation.

You will often get a 10-12 day pattern with a combination of day and night flying with the one legal day off in the middle. Rest of the month will obviously be better.

QR operates strictly according to legality. No regard is taken for family issues, fatigue-issues or the flight safety implications fatigue has. You will be tired beyond your imagination, but you will get a decent meal at 3am if you wish.

By the way, management cancelled one week’s leave for all A320 pilots this winter.

And another A320 roster example:

Here is another actual roster.
Again, all times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. off
Day 2. report 0630, Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 3. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 4. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 5. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 6. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 7. report 0040 for regional turn-around, land DOH 0610.
Day 8. off
Day 9. report 1515 for three-sectors, Gulf turn-around, followed by layover India.
Day 10. land at outstation 0130 (layover), wake-up-call 2330.
Day 11. land DOH 0620. followed by 17hrs 25min rest.
Day 12. report 0015, regional turn-around, land DOH 0620.
Day 13. report 1115, regional turn-around, land DOH1940.
Day 14. off
Day 15. off

They actually gave me duty on my day off on day 14 (without asking), but I reported sick for that day.

You will get a pattern like this almost every month.

For comparative purposes, some other fleet roster examples from other posts:

A330 Roster :-

2 x BRU
1 x ICN
1 x MNL
1 x DXB
1 x FCO
1 x ZRH + STR (3 sector day)

A return from LHR at the beginning of the month meant just over 99hrs flying.


And "typical" 777 roster from previous post:

Typical monthly Qatar 777 roster

2 JFK (3 Days trip)
1 MEL (4 Days trip)

1 BKK-SGN (4 Days trip)
1 PVG (3 Days trip)

2-3 days off between and some stand-by

Flight time 120hrs/ 75 logged hours

Flyer1015 21st Jul 2012 17:00


For those contemplating joining QR, here is an actual roster for A320 Captain.The month and specific destinations have been omitted to protect the innocent. All times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.
That is unsafe! How can the human body healthily transition from a day schedule immediately into a night schedule and then vice versa? And only 8 days off? :ouch: I remember moaning about my A320 schedule for August with 16 days off. Luckily, was able to drop 2 one-day trips and get 18 off. Life was good once again. :)

Check Airman 21st Jul 2012 18:05

That schedule seems horrific. I work in the US for a regional airline. For those who are unfamiliar, the regional industry in the US is rock bottom regarding work rules. Even the most junior pilot on our roster would not be subject to that sort of schedule.

Check Airman 21st Jul 2012 21:21

PM sent AV8r

downwindabeam 22nd Jul 2012 00:15

I'm sure this has been asked before but here goes...

How does QR determine what fleet you will be joining?

Also, on the 320 fleet, what do you do if you uncomfortable going to certain places (ie: DAM/IKA)?

Thanks!

flying apple 22nd Jul 2012 06:56

@downwind abeam

I think you have no other option than fly to there
but you can always leave the cockpit door locked if you don't feel safe :E

salamalikum2 22nd Jul 2012 08:31

Downwind..I think Damascus flight has been suspended long time ago..,
Don't worry about IKA..Iranians are very kind and respectful of all nationalities as long as you respect them..forget about politics & CNN & ALjzeera...
Never had any kind of problem there as a westerner.. if this is your concern.:)

ironbutt57 22nd Jul 2012 10:19

Iranians are very kind and respectful of all nationalities as long as you respect them..forget about politics & CNN & ALjzeera...

Very much the case!!!!:ok::ok:

stop, stop, stop 22nd Jul 2012 17:35

I agree with the rosters. Hugely fatiguing, accident waiting to happen. IKA, nice day out that one...2 sectors, 1hr 45 each and back in time to laze by the pool!

I am not so sure I agree with the 'Days Off' quoted. As far as I am aware (and my roster has always agreed) Days Off down route count toward your 1 off in 8 duty days, but they don't count towards your avg of 8 in 3 months. You must avg 8 days off in home base. Don't get me wrong, you won't avg more than 8!!!

As for Leave, every 7 days of leave you take in a month counts as 2 Days Off. So if you take 14 days then expect to only get 3 days off for the rest of the month. In reality, they struggle to roster quite so close, but they'll give it a darned good try.

casablanca 22nd Jul 2012 19:49

I know one person at Qatar who said he heard DEC on 777 has been stopped.
I was wondering if anyone has been scheduled for a captain widebody interview?
They cant seem to keep up with training right now so it seems if they put all new hires on 320 that would almost double their training burden.
Our talent pool letter said their would be an update the end of July? Hopefully we hear some sort of plan as it is hard prepare for a new life like this!

ironbutt57 23rd Jul 2012 04:42

I was wondering if anyone has been scheduled for a captain widebody interview?

If you notice the wording carefully, the invite to the interview, and the subsequent congrats letter state "CAPTAIN" position, the "widebody" is only on the website as an option when you first apply....keep treading water....

capt_amit 23rd Jul 2012 23:34

looking for job
 
hello everyone i m looking for a job as first officer is there any chances of mine i m type rated on ATR 72-500 and having around 2300 hrs on type , i m looking for 320 or 330 i m ready to sign any contract if company provides me the type rating . please advise me if QATAR is taking pilot or where else i can apply now,

victor75 24th Jul 2012 11:55

Hi everyone!
Just a quick question : is it easy to find a place to live for me and my wife once there?
and is it also easy for here to find a job at doha (marketing, product manager) ?
Did one of u have schedule a cargo flight to repatriate some furnitures from your own country? (I read that we will have possibility for 150kg cargo)

Thanks guys!

DOJ : 16 September NTSO

safelife 24th Jul 2012 13:46

Currently all widebody fleets are overcrewed with captains, flying as little as 500 hrs a year. So we will not see any upgrades nor DECs on widebody for some time to come.
The only chance would be B787, but currently the plan is to hire on A320 and move experienced A320 guys onto the B787.
I reckon that is partly due to the fact that they need some kind of carrot for the A320 folks not to run away all to quickly.


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