British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Well done DH! Thanks a million!
Without it's members, BASSA are powerless. WE gave them the power they now hold, happy to be members in the good times when things were going our way. However, all of a sudden, the old methods aren't working anymore and we now condemn them for the same things they were once congratulated for. BASSA haven't changed. BA have. The only thing we can really blame BASSA for is their lack of foresight and refusal to adapt.
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I am half inclined to agree with you jetset lady how ever the simple fact is that the BASSA leadership have dictated the agenda. Any attempt to deviate from position imposed by the leadership has not been tolerated, just read the other forums and you will find countless examples. Yes the members did give the power to the leadership but the leadership took the power and used it for their own interests (CSDs on a trolley?). Comments from DH like "see you at Bedfont" do not reassure me that he is using what is left of his power for the benefit of his flock.
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True but if the flock wasn't willing to follow, then the BASSA leadership would be unable to dictate the agenda. And many were still following right up until the point when realisation started to dawn that the benefits for the leadership were becoming more important than the benefits for the membership. From what I can see, that has always been the case but thanks to those agreements generally being beneficial to all at the main base, it's only now that it has become so obvious too so many more.
(This is not a LHR v All Others argument. It's a fact that we will always look at an agreement and ask what's in it for us, no matter what base we come from. Most of us work to pay the bills. Enjoying the job is a bonus.)
(This is not a LHR v All Others argument. It's a fact that we will always look at an agreement and ask what's in it for us, no matter what base we come from. Most of us work to pay the bills. Enjoying the job is a bonus.)
Last edited by jetset lady; 22nd Sep 2010 at 14:51.
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Jetset lady and flying nunn,
I have been told by an ex rep that many reps warned Duncan and Lisanne that they should wait for the November payroll before ballotting the Bassa members (because then they would have known the correct names still in the union and which had taken severence), but DH went ahead regardless and against alot of reps views.
I have also been told by an ex rep that used to work at Gatwick that an offer was made, prior to Christmas, to mediate between CC89, Bill Francis and Bassa LHR reps but DH turned that down while CC89 and Bill said YES.
So I think as flying Nunn said DH is responsible for alot of this mess. Many reps wanted to give the company time after the first ballot result just before Christmas but DH having been suspended by then apparently pushed for an immediate strike call and the dreaded 12 days of Christmas. As far as I am concerned that was the turning point for many crew who completely lost faith in Bassa there and then, so that is why they are in this mess now.
I have been told by an ex rep that many reps warned Duncan and Lisanne that they should wait for the November payroll before ballotting the Bassa members (because then they would have known the correct names still in the union and which had taken severence), but DH went ahead regardless and against alot of reps views.
I have also been told by an ex rep that used to work at Gatwick that an offer was made, prior to Christmas, to mediate between CC89, Bill Francis and Bassa LHR reps but DH turned that down while CC89 and Bill said YES.
So I think as flying Nunn said DH is responsible for alot of this mess. Many reps wanted to give the company time after the first ballot result just before Christmas but DH having been suspended by then apparently pushed for an immediate strike call and the dreaded 12 days of Christmas. As far as I am concerned that was the turning point for many crew who completely lost faith in Bassa there and then, so that is why they are in this mess now.
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Well I think a lot of what you say is true Timothy Claypole.
You seem to have access to the Bassa forum or crew forum, so you can see what the more mentalist bassa members are saying. As a crew member who did not strike, I left the union a long time ago, so I don't get to see this kind of thing.
I do fly, though, with a lot of crew that did strike and for most of them they still genuinely trust the union and having had their staff travel taken off them, I think they cling onto their misguided loyalty to the union in the hope that the union will get their Staff Travel back.
Now most of us on here know that, that will not happen very soon and unless Bassa change their stance probably only if a court says so and that may or may not happen but a lot of these crew don't see that, as they have put their trust in Bassa. Most are good genuine people who have been badly led and the loss of staff travel is in fact driving this IA on. Those of us that did not strike just take each day, one by one, dealing with the aftermath but those that did strike are driven by a feeling of injustice towards us for not striking and towards Willi Walsh for taking their staff travel away. And these feelings will just not go away I am afraid.
You seem to have access to the Bassa forum or crew forum, so you can see what the more mentalist bassa members are saying. As a crew member who did not strike, I left the union a long time ago, so I don't get to see this kind of thing.
I do fly, though, with a lot of crew that did strike and for most of them they still genuinely trust the union and having had their staff travel taken off them, I think they cling onto their misguided loyalty to the union in the hope that the union will get their Staff Travel back.
Now most of us on here know that, that will not happen very soon and unless Bassa change their stance probably only if a court says so and that may or may not happen but a lot of these crew don't see that, as they have put their trust in Bassa. Most are good genuine people who have been badly led and the loss of staff travel is in fact driving this IA on. Those of us that did not strike just take each day, one by one, dealing with the aftermath but those that did strike are driven by a feeling of injustice towards us for not striking and towards Willi Walsh for taking their staff travel away. And these feelings will just not go away I am afraid.
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Betty Girl and TC. You are both correct IMO. What really grates me is that Bassa in whatever guise have gone against anything/body that BA has tried to do in the past. The way I see it is that whenever you have gone and given ANY differance of opinion, any feedback etc to pretty much ANY of the Bassa reps, it has been met with indifferance at best and downright negativity at worst. Crew have been told by Bassa from the moment they start flying and sometimes before! that BA are the enemy and ANYTHING that they say, be it a manager, scheduling, CC direct etc is a lie and mustn't be trusted. Bassa has to many become their Daddy and is their FIRST port of call for any problem that arises. How many times have you heard crew say ' I,m off to see/call Bassa when perhaps a siple call to the appropriate person would sort out the situation. Thats not to say that EVERYONE in BA is good or can do the job, but personally I've found 95% can sort it IF possible.
As for DH, he has always been on his own agenda, but the above mantra has been perportrated by him more than most IMO. He has made sure that MOST reps carry on the anti BA regime. A friend of mine last year put a bit of constructive critisism on the Bassa forum. The next day DH phoned him at home and gave him what for in a very abusive manner. He resigned from Bassa the next day. It was DH who at a meeting last year put a proposal to a show of hands and after the usual massive YES, actually said ' Anyone brave enough to vote no'. This is straight out of the 70's and sums it up to me. This guy has looked after himself in every way. Like every dictatorship, he cannot believe what is happening to HIS little empire. Its all someone else's fault. Classic. Total denial. He has always been an angry man. As for the situation that Bassa are the members, I wish!!
For the ones that follow him, you have the thugs, the one ones who are frightened, the ones who have bowed to peer pressure, and the ones who aren't the sharpest knives in the box. Its all a bloody shame as ALL of us have lost, and we will never know that with a bit of realistic negotiation it could well have been so differant.
As for DH, he has always been on his own agenda, but the above mantra has been perportrated by him more than most IMO. He has made sure that MOST reps carry on the anti BA regime. A friend of mine last year put a bit of constructive critisism on the Bassa forum. The next day DH phoned him at home and gave him what for in a very abusive manner. He resigned from Bassa the next day. It was DH who at a meeting last year put a proposal to a show of hands and after the usual massive YES, actually said ' Anyone brave enough to vote no'. This is straight out of the 70's and sums it up to me. This guy has looked after himself in every way. Like every dictatorship, he cannot believe what is happening to HIS little empire. Its all someone else's fault. Classic. Total denial. He has always been an angry man. As for the situation that Bassa are the members, I wish!!
For the ones that follow him, you have the thugs, the one ones who are frightened, the ones who have bowed to peer pressure, and the ones who aren't the sharpest knives in the box. Its all a bloody shame as ALL of us have lost, and we will never know that with a bit of realistic negotiation it could well have been so differant.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 22nd Sep 2010 at 19:26.
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Timothy Claypole I agree that the BASSA militants are a problem, however they are a minority group now so they are not the main problem.
The biggest problem we now have is the large number of crew (approximately 4000 - 5000) who did not strike, but yet remain members of BASSA. They are the people that hold the key to unlocking this entire dispute. They have to do one thing: resign from BASSA. A phone call or email to pay services to cancel their subscription. Yet they don't.
They have nothing to gain by staying a member; they are unlikely to get any assistance from BASSA. They should be resigning en masse. But they aren't and therefore they are quite literally funding this entire dispute. They have had several opportunities now to end the dispute either by resigning or by accepting the offer (consultative ballot) yet they have not.
They are the key players in this now, yet they do not realise it. They are perhaps scared; bored; or simply confused by everything so they keep on funding this dispute.
The BASSA militants are but a minor irritant now. The non-striking BASSA members are the key players who need to take action now and resign immediately from BASSA to end this dispute for all our sakes.
The biggest problem we now have is the large number of crew (approximately 4000 - 5000) who did not strike, but yet remain members of BASSA. They are the people that hold the key to unlocking this entire dispute. They have to do one thing: resign from BASSA. A phone call or email to pay services to cancel their subscription. Yet they don't.
They have nothing to gain by staying a member; they are unlikely to get any assistance from BASSA. They should be resigning en masse. But they aren't and therefore they are quite literally funding this entire dispute. They have had several opportunities now to end the dispute either by resigning or by accepting the offer (consultative ballot) yet they have not.
They are the key players in this now, yet they do not realise it. They are perhaps scared; bored; or simply confused by everything so they keep on funding this dispute.
The BASSA militants are but a minor irritant now. The non-striking BASSA members are the key players who need to take action now and resign immediately from BASSA to end this dispute for all our sakes.
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Many reps wanted to give the company time after the first ballot result just before Christmas but DH having been suspended by then apparently pushed for an immediate strike call and the dreaded 12 days of Christmas.
True! I loathe using reliable sources, as I wasn't told directly myself, but DH was apparently suspended on his 4th written warning. Even if I'd received my 2nd, I'd have had to change my underwear. He knew by this point he was a gonner, and any useful input he had ceased entirely at this stage. He just became a soon to be ex-employee with a personal battle to fight. And nothing's changed in coming up to a year since then. I hope the remaining BASSA members reading this, who've got the foresight to look at something other than the forum will draw a big fat X next to NO in the coming ballot and force DH to leave, or let TW sort it out as best he can.
Most people on both sides are sick of this now. It's the same old, same old, and we're all talked out. It's totally up to the BASSA membership to take Grandad back in doors and sit him back in his chair. He's talking nonsense and they know it. Ignoring him will just irritate the neighbours even more.
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BA advertising for experienced CC at BA Recruitment
£17000-20000 pa including most allowances, requires 3 months CC experience in last 5 years. I am sure they will be inundated with applications.
regards
£17000-20000 pa including most allowances, requires 3 months CC experience in last 5 years. I am sure they will be inundated with applications.
regards
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Unfortunately there's little chance of anyone taking grandad back indoors as the responsible adults are all pretending they're down with the XXXX cause. I understand it entirely - nobody wants to make themselves a target of the strikers bullying at work - but the problem is their silence bolsters the bullies belief that they are in the majority. On the chief propaganda website there's a thread titled "Your trip, your crew let's see who's winning" in which the militants can report how many strikers were on their last trip. It's remarkable that on many trips with 14 crewmembers rostered, many are claiming 10, 11, 12, even 14 strikers crewing the flight. A simple bit of maths would tell you that even using generous assumptions and BASSAs own figures for strikers, the chances of there being 14 strikers on board is less than 3%. What that means is that there are a lot of people fibbing on board about being on strike. The one cause for hope is that somebody has reported the more realistic claim that he was indeed the only striker on the crew on a recent trip, which suggests that once the non-strikers realise they are in the majority they are much more comfortable about fronting up for their beliefs.
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There are definitely a lot of fibbers out there and quite possibly the number of XXXX baggage tags out there is in response to the fears many have of bullying from their own peers.
New fleet is on the front of many peoples minds now and it's introduction is fast approaching, an introduction that was never on the table in the original offer CC were denied an opinion in.
New fleet is on the front of many peoples minds now and it's introduction is fast approaching, an introduction that was never on the table in the original offer CC were denied an opinion in.
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The conspiracy theorists amongst you may like this one.
BA realised fairly early in this whole game that the real savings were to be made with NewFleet. Early on in the process NF was taken off the table but at this point BASSA were playing silly power games and it became obvoous to BA that bigger long term savings and a chance to sweep away a lot of spanish practices was a real possibility.
So when BASSA announced the 12 days of Christmas BA decided to add ST to the mix. Why would they do this? It may have had the effect of weakening the resolve of some strikers, particularly the commuters, but more importantly it was a classic piece of misdirection. With the union focusing on ST and disciplinaries, BA has just gone ahead with NF.
Supposing UNITE were to win the case against the imposition of reduced numbers, they will not get the crewmember back, it is more likely to be a little compensation - not the "working down" payments they have missed out on but some compensation. This will be heavily appealed by BA and dragged out for many years.
If they win the ST battle, BA can vary the terms of ST at their whim. They can alter it as they did last year, they can enhance it for some staff groups, NF perhaps, and degrade it for other groups, WW and EF perhaps. As I said earlier though, this is but a distraction as they push ahead with the introduction of NF.
I would be amazed if the potentially high box payment routes of Haneda and Buenos Aires are not flown by NF, the savings per crew rotation would be immense. The actions of BASSA here have not only allowed BA to bring about NF - which could have been avoided and at one stage of the whole sorry saga of this dispute was not part of the equation, but their actions have now allowed BA to forge ahead with NF. ST has been used by BA as a magician uses misdirection - you are made to look exactly away from the real action.
If BA are forced to return ST - and they will appeal forever to avoid doing so, I doubt WW or anyone else in the leadership team will bat an eyelid. They will have had what they wanted and more and BASSA will look back on this period and ask How? What? Who?
BA realised fairly early in this whole game that the real savings were to be made with NewFleet. Early on in the process NF was taken off the table but at this point BASSA were playing silly power games and it became obvoous to BA that bigger long term savings and a chance to sweep away a lot of spanish practices was a real possibility.
So when BASSA announced the 12 days of Christmas BA decided to add ST to the mix. Why would they do this? It may have had the effect of weakening the resolve of some strikers, particularly the commuters, but more importantly it was a classic piece of misdirection. With the union focusing on ST and disciplinaries, BA has just gone ahead with NF.
Supposing UNITE were to win the case against the imposition of reduced numbers, they will not get the crewmember back, it is more likely to be a little compensation - not the "working down" payments they have missed out on but some compensation. This will be heavily appealed by BA and dragged out for many years.
If they win the ST battle, BA can vary the terms of ST at their whim. They can alter it as they did last year, they can enhance it for some staff groups, NF perhaps, and degrade it for other groups, WW and EF perhaps. As I said earlier though, this is but a distraction as they push ahead with the introduction of NF.
I would be amazed if the potentially high box payment routes of Haneda and Buenos Aires are not flown by NF, the savings per crew rotation would be immense. The actions of BASSA here have not only allowed BA to bring about NF - which could have been avoided and at one stage of the whole sorry saga of this dispute was not part of the equation, but their actions have now allowed BA to forge ahead with NF. ST has been used by BA as a magician uses misdirection - you are made to look exactly away from the real action.
If BA are forced to return ST - and they will appeal forever to avoid doing so, I doubt WW or anyone else in the leadership team will bat an eyelid. They will have had what they wanted and more and BASSA will look back on this period and ask How? What? Who?
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Unsurprisingly, I hear, the XXXX baggage labels may be attracting the wrong sort of attention from colleagues on the ground who were not impressed with some of the Bedford FC chants.....
Last edited by 52049er; 23rd Sep 2010 at 20:16.
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Woody42 - it is more likely that an XXXX tagged suitcase won't make it to the baggage hall coming back into T5.
By the way, congratulations to all of the MF crew now at Cranebank. You are already setting new standards - especially the smart CSMs. What a shame though that some of the "heritage" crew can't help but give you evil stares. I suppose it can't feel nice being replaced by people that actually want to work for BA.
By the way, congratulations to all of the MF crew now at Cranebank. You are already setting new standards - especially the smart CSMs. What a shame though that some of the "heritage" crew can't help but give you evil stares. I suppose it can't feel nice being replaced by people that actually want to work for BA.
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Woody42 - surely you are not suggesting that it is now impossible to lose a bag in T5?!!!! If pax bags can go missing then XXXX bags will go too.
Why can't the BASSAmentalists see that their actions have consequences? I'm sure that we've all heard strikers moaning about how they had a plum trip wiped after having been on strike. So you go on strike and cause disruption for our pax then bitch that BA then changed your roster - so unfair!!!
Why can't the BASSAmentalists see that their actions have consequences? I'm sure that we've all heard strikers moaning about how they had a plum trip wiped after having been on strike. So you go on strike and cause disruption for our pax then bitch that BA then changed your roster - so unfair!!!
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I took it (from a very friendly chat) that it was a case of xxxx bags perhaps not being handled with the usual TLC, rather than going missing, which as you say is more difficult at T5 than before!
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Well, I'm just surmising, but if you were a loader, and saw a video of strikers singing, "I'd rather shag a loader than a scab", then came across one of said strikers suitcases (easily identified by a "XXXX" label), what might you do to it? Even better, what might you do in it? 
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MOD are you happy with these posts.. they are shocking.....if someone knows some one who is tampering with anyones bags it should be reported to BA imediately so should these posts....