British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[Wirbelsturm]

Still a funny coloured sky in BASSA land I see.

No one really knows but I would suggest that the loss of ST, albeit provocative, is clearly up to the company as it is a perk not a contractural right.

As to paying back money to those who lost it I am afraid that it was their choice to live away from BA and not the companies responsibility to cater for their travel to and from work.

Surely a decision in favour of commuters from a court would be discriminatory against any person not requiring ST utilisation to get to work.

Don't hold your breath.

[Caribbean Boy]

Well, MissM, it does depend on how you look at it. One can just as well say that it's outrageous that BA should be forced to train VCC because people like you went on strike and don't care if BA goes bust (your words in a post some weeks ago which was quickly removed). One can also say that's it's outrageous that BA should find it necessary to put VCC on their recency flights from LGW in order to avoid possible aggravation from LHR-based strikers.

[Pornpants1]

MissM

I have a genuine question for you.....

Fingers crossed we will have a good result in court. I really hope they will rule in favour for Unite and make BA reimburse every single penny which commuters have to spend on ticket and hotel costs because they lost their staff travel concessions for participating in a lawful industrial action. That would make my day!

What sort of time frame are you planning for/thinking of? At best the staff travel case will be heard in the new year. Whilst I'm not about to predict who will win, I'm willing to bet that whoever losses will appeal, and this process has the potential to take 6-8 years to solve, can you and other BASSA members afford to wait that long?

[RadarIdent]

MissM

BA is becoming a great place to work at. As of October 7th we will have to work with VCC on certain WW flights. At least it removes some of the pressure on our EF colleagues who have had to work with them for some time but it's outrageous and provocative. We shouldn't be forced to work with people who are nothing but prolonging our dispute.

The reason these 'people' are VCC in the first instance is because of the refusal of BASSA to accept change like EVERY other department. Call us selfish, but we want to see our company succeed and have all done our bit and more in this regard.
What have you done MissM? And, looking at your posts, why do you continue working for an Airline that you obviously so despise?

[MissM]

Let staff travel be a perk if you wish but when BA removed it from those of us who participated in lawful industrial action it was done as a form of punishment. Nothing else. BA allows its staff to reside overseas. Both of these points are to our advantage. BA, and especially WW himself, has made life difficult for many loyal and long serving crew. Nobody can tell how many years it will take before a decision has been made but what's important is that the issue is progressing. I don't rely on staff travel any more as I live in the UK but I will definitely support any commuter who has lost their staff travel. I doubt very few of us will be here in eight years because by then we, including those who crossed the picket line, would have been replaced by Mixed Fleet

Let LGW have the VCC. If LGW crew think they are doing this company a favour by assisting VCC, they are way out of line. Remember that LGW is considered to be too expensive for BA. LGW will not be protected from Mixed Fleet either. LGW crew, and everyone else who crossed the picket line, should have supported their union.

[ChicoG]

MissM said:

Remember that LGW is considered to be too expensive for BA.

It would seem BA don't agree with you, MissM. Or you're wrong again.

London.– British Airways has opened up its Gatwick gateway with a growing route network that has firmly established it as the airport's leading long haul carrier. As the airline celebrates the first anniversary of the popular thrice-weekly Sharm el Sheikh service, it is getting ready to launch a new twice-weekly service to Cancun in November.

With other new routes launched in the past year, including Male, in the Maldives, Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic and Montego Bay in Jamaica, British Airways will operate flights to 25 domestic and European destinations and 16 long haul destinations from Gatwick this winter.

The most popular long haul destinations for families are Orlando and Tampa in Florida. This follows the recent announcement of the increased frequency of flights to Tampa, starting on March 27, 2011. Other hotspots for holidays include the Dominican Republic, holidays in the Maldives and Cancun.

[Wirbelsturm]

MissM,

Very magnanimous of you. I, personally, hold the totally opposite view. Someone who lives abroad and benefits from the non residents tax breaks who take industrial action when that action brings with it the loss of their perks has made their own choice. Staff Travel, as discussed previously, is a perk offered at the whim of the company. If it were not then the tax burden applied would make your recent allowances tax increase seem minute.

They are not deserving of sympathy as they have made a choice both to rely upon a perk to get to and from work and to be of the naieve belief that BASSA would 'get it back in 5 minutes'.

Welcome to the real adult world where decisions have consequences. Financial compensation for those individuals would be discriminatory against all personnel who pay for their own non subsidised travel to work.

You make the choices that shape your lives.

[MissM]

RadarIdent

I don't despite this company. I despise our so called management.

ChicoG

It's the cheapest base at the moment but certainly not the cheapest when compared to the costs of Mixed Fleet. Wait until Mixed Fleet has been launched and LGW will be next on the line within IFCE.

Wirbelsturm

Everyone who went on strike had their individual reasons but assumingly the majority felt that reaching an agreement with BA was not possible.

There were many commuters at BFC which would indicate that they put their livehoods ahead of their travel concessions. BA informed us that we would lose our staff travel concessions permanently should we go on a strike and undoubtedly they were trying to "scare" our commuting cabin crew and convince them not go on strike. Did it work? Probably not.

[Wirbelsturm]

MissM,

Did it work? Probably not.

Good to see we at least agree on the outcome of the ill advised BASSA industrial action.

[Colonel White]

MissM

Fingers crossed we will have a good result in court. I really hope they will rule in favour for Unite and make BA reimburse every single penny which commuters have to spend on ticket and hotel costs because they lost their staff travel concessions for participating in a lawful industrial action. That would make my day! Last edited by MissM : Today at 15:34.

Whuch court action would that be ? What bit of the law are Unite trying to use to get BA to return Staff Travel,bearing in mind that the two sides are still in dispute ? Oh and BA have been very public about offering to return staff travel to those wo went on strike once the dispute is settled.

What is a court going to say ? BA have offered to return the perk, just as they have in the past, but only when Unite agree to a cessation. Unite have clearly not agreed to any such thing and are still in dispute. Asking the court to return staff travel is asking the judiciary to be involved in settling the dispute. Not going to happen is it. Once again Unite have gone off half cock. The correct way forward would be to settle the dispute, wait to see whether BA return staff travel and then take action if they don't on the basis that they are discriminating against workers who have previously been in dispute with the company. Unite really ought to have a good chat with their legal team. Quite when this will get to court is unknown. I believe Unite are supposed to have sent papers to the court,which gives BA several weeks in which to prepare an inital response, Then the case needs to be listed ... unlikely to be heard this year. Are Unite going to hold out till next spring for a possible first hearing ? We could be two years down the track from the initial removal before this is finally resolved. Are BASSA going to remain in dispute that long ? Bear in mind that whilst this little ruckus continues, BA won't talk about pay, allowances or working conditions, so crew will be stuck with a pay freeze for the duration. Except of course the non union folk plus Mixed fleet. Are cabin crew going to be happy with that situation ? How many will have left through natural wastage ? How many will leave simply because they find that they can't afford to take the financial penalty of commutting without staff travel ? They won't get any compensation.

Final thought. Why is it that Unite have only just decided that removing staff travel from strikers is 'punishment' when BA has done this several times previously and the union has not moved a muscle ?

[Colonel White]

Cheapest base...

Whoops, just forgot. When Mixed fleet comes on line, they probably will be the cheapest base, followed by LGW with LHR 'heritage' crews still showing as the most expensive. You'd have to have a sizeable Mixed Fleet presence in LHR to bring the average LHR cabin crew cost down to a level comparable with LGW.

LGW have had a rough ride for the past few years and have been on the verge of closure several times. It is a credit to the whole LGW operation that they have been able to get to grips with costs, punctuality and customer satisfaction and generally rise to the challenge.

[Abbey Road]

MissM,

BA, and especially WW himself, has made life difficult for many loyal and long serving crew.

I think there are many who would feel that "loyal" and "long serving" are being confused. Just because someone has served a long time does not necessarily mean that they are loyal. It could mean that the 'long server' is marking time, knowing that there is nothing else out there that would provide similar income and terms/conditions. However, as they bide their time, they may be anything but loyal. As long as they stay away from the disciplinary line in the sand then they remain ..... long serving.

On the other hand, someone who has been in the company 6 months, maybe having waited years to get a position, would be willing to give all to help keep the company viable and healthy. That would certainly be considered loyal.

If LGW crew think they are doing this company a favour by assisting VCC, they are way out of line.

Don't forget that a large part of the employee group, perhaps a notable majority, happen to think that BASSA "are way out of line".

[who came first]

It's all over?

I'm surprised that so many strikers believe that the dispute must end with a 'negotiated settlement'.

Management have been handed far more than they expected by an incompetent BASSA leadership. OK it came at a not inconsiderable cost but BA are not going to negotiate away a hard won victory.
We all know that any more strikes would be futile and that despite what they may say publicly, Unite are not interested. BA has an army of volunteers now and have not invested millions on SEP and service training for nothing. There's no support from other Unite branches within BA ("I'd rather s*ag a loader than a scab").

Haneda and Buenos Aires will cost many times New Fleet pay should they use current crew so there's no chance that will happen. More threats from BASSA are just empty and only BASSA members who believe everything their leaders say think otherwise. I'll be surprised if BA ever meets with BASSA again.

BA offered current LHR crew a very generous pay guarantee this summer which they knew strikers would refuse. They can afford to pay this guarantee in future years as only just under 1000 signed up for it, ie less than 10%. Most of us believe that in spite of earlier guarantees, BA will gradually pull premium routes from current crew saying that the strikes made it inevitable. And staff travel? What advantage is there to BA to give it back? Sadly, none. Everyone who finds it too difficult to come to work can be replaced with someboby for less than half the cost.

So what can current crew do? BA might be more inclined to meet if the current leadership of BASSA was removed by the members but that's not going to happen. Over the last few years the BASSA leaders have altered the rules so that you need to be a rep for many years before you can even stand for election to key positions.

I have many crew friends who do not deserve this. Most crew are excellent at their job and I believe their justified reputation increases tickets sales, but I think the BASSA leaders have conned their members for their own selfish purposes.

The fat lady is stirring.

[Stiffco]

undoubtedly they were trying to "scare" our commuting cabin crew and convince them not go on strike. Did it work? Probably not.

What is the fixation about commuting crew?

Perhaps the threat of removal of st was more about concentrating the thoughts of all those that enjoy the benefits of taking several Caribbean holidays each year.

[Desk Jocky]

Let staff travel be a perk if you wish but when BA removed it from those of us who participated in lawful industrial action it was done as a form of punishment. Nothing else.

As so this statement that is on the ST logon screen is irrelevent then?

Staff travel is a non-contractual and discretionary benefit granted at the sole discretion of BA and as such can be withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the Company at any time.

BA allows its staff to reside overseas.

Staff choose to reside overseas, BA may allows them to use staff travel as a means to get to work, but it in no way forces staff to reside overseas, unless it is where they are stationed for their job.

BA, and especially WW himself, has made life difficult for many loyal and long serving crew.

Loyalty is earnt not gained through long service.

I will definitely support any commuter who has lost their staff travel. I doubt very few of us will be here in eight years because by then we, including those who crossed the picket line, would have been replaced by Mixed Fleet.

Pure supposition I think, as unless you have a crystal ball, there is no telling how long it will take for current main crew to be replaced, and the best estimates so far have been closer to 10 years and probably longer.
That is if you don't attempt further IA, and force BA's hand?

[ChicoG]

MissM said:

Remember that LGW is considered to be too expensive for BA.

And also said:

It's the cheapest base at the moment but certainly not the cheapest when compared to the costs of Mixed Fleet. Wait until Mixed Fleet has been launched and LGW will be next on the line within IFCE.

This is nothing more than a non-sequitur.

You said Gatwick is considered to be too expensive for BA. By whom?

Or are you simply repeating BASSA rumours designed to try and frighten LGW crew? If so, it doesn't appear to be working.

[CC Forum Moderators]

Some users have reported problems with this thread "getting stuck".
In view of that, and because at 3000+ posts it is becoming unwieldy, we are opening a new thread along the same lines.

CC Forum Moderators