British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I was about to post something DH said re 'scabs and forward bookings'. It's posted on many sites, though I am a little reticent in posting it here.
IF this is true, I'm wondering if the company would be at liberty to take action, as his intentions are clearly to have a severe detrimental affect on BA financially, as stated clearly in print!
I accept he is no longer employed within BA, but does he really have carte blanche to continue with his own agenda against the company?
IF this is true, I'm wondering if the company would be at liberty to take action, as his intentions are clearly to have a severe detrimental affect on BA financially, as stated clearly in print!
I accept he is no longer employed within BA, but does he really have carte blanche to continue with his own agenda against the company?
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BASSA latest
REPORT FROM TODAY’S (SEP 6TH) BRANCH
Sep 6th, 2010 by admin
Approx 1500 cabin crew attended the joint BASSA/AMICUS meeting today held at Kempton Park and, to a man, woman and child, were decked out in yellow in a solidarity gesture to the members who, during the dispute have either been sacked, suspended or been put through disciplinaries. The sight of the two small children wearing “BA sacked my Mum” t-shirts was very poignant and a timely reminder that decent ordinary crew are losing their livelihoods due to one man’s bullying and intransigence. A minute’s silence was then held in memory of the two cabin crew members who lost their lives in the Manchester-Corfu crash which occurred almost 25 years ago to the day. During the silence bouquets and bunches of yellow flowers were laid at the front and afterwards they were taken away by crew from Manchester where they will be placed at the memorial place in Manchester. It was a sombre and moving moment.
The meeting was a lively one and different to the big meetings previously held over the last year at either Kempton or Sandown. Where as in the past there had been fear, worry, concern and trepidation the mood today was one of real anger. Anger at the cowardly way this company had treated everyone present. Anger at colleagues who were too afraid to support a strike they had voted for and, although it pains us to record this, intense anger at our flight deck “colleagues” who continue to stab us in the back. There was no talk of compromise or turning back. (Determination to see this through whatever was very evident throughout the whole meeting.)
The assembly was told that despite the efforts of Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson there had been no progress made in the talks, with Walsh as aggressive as ever. The following mandate was then voted on from the floor and it was unanimously accepted with no abstentions.
Due to BA’s increased assault on our union, our leadership and our membership, this branch calls on the Joint General Secretaries to initiate a ballot for Industrial Action as soon as possible, with the exact timing left to the discretion of the committee.
We would also like Unite to advise the travelling public that there is every likelihood of industrial action over the autumn and winter months.
There then followed an in depth report back from OH Parsons re the legal situation vis a vis staff travel, unlawful deductions of wages and the imposition of taking crew off an aircraft appeal. Suffice to say the talking is now over and the solicitors are now putting into place the relevant procedures necessary to fight all these cases through the courts. OH Parsons agreed to issue a newsletter to bring all members up to date asap. The floor were very vocal and insistent that action had to start immediately and there had been too much talking up to now.
There was a further proposal - supported unanimously from the floor to raise the BASSA subs by £5 per month to help meet travelling costs to and from work to all those commuters who have lost staff travel. This would just be for the time the ban remains in place. It was agreed however to put this to an online poll on the BASSA website to give everybody the chance to have a say on this. The poll is up and running and it was agreed we would all be bound by the outcome.
An update was given on the situation re volunteer reps. There is a feeling that BA may take punitive action against any member who does BASSA/AMICUS work in their spare time. Legal advice needs to be taken on this to see if there is any potential breach of contract issues.
It was also reported back that Unite had paid out £2.83m in strike pay to 6,729 striking crew members (average claim 10 days) and that hardship loans had now been granted to all those deemed deserving.
The meeting concluded with a pensions debrief by Ed Sabisky of Unite.
The meeting can probably be best summed up by most people’s parting shot -
SEE YOU AT BEDFONT!
Sep 6th, 2010 by admin
Approx 1500 cabin crew attended the joint BASSA/AMICUS meeting today held at Kempton Park and, to a man, woman and child, were decked out in yellow in a solidarity gesture to the members who, during the dispute have either been sacked, suspended or been put through disciplinaries. The sight of the two small children wearing “BA sacked my Mum” t-shirts was very poignant and a timely reminder that decent ordinary crew are losing their livelihoods due to one man’s bullying and intransigence. A minute’s silence was then held in memory of the two cabin crew members who lost their lives in the Manchester-Corfu crash which occurred almost 25 years ago to the day. During the silence bouquets and bunches of yellow flowers were laid at the front and afterwards they were taken away by crew from Manchester where they will be placed at the memorial place in Manchester. It was a sombre and moving moment.
The meeting was a lively one and different to the big meetings previously held over the last year at either Kempton or Sandown. Where as in the past there had been fear, worry, concern and trepidation the mood today was one of real anger. Anger at the cowardly way this company had treated everyone present. Anger at colleagues who were too afraid to support a strike they had voted for and, although it pains us to record this, intense anger at our flight deck “colleagues” who continue to stab us in the back. There was no talk of compromise or turning back. (Determination to see this through whatever was very evident throughout the whole meeting.)
The assembly was told that despite the efforts of Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson there had been no progress made in the talks, with Walsh as aggressive as ever. The following mandate was then voted on from the floor and it was unanimously accepted with no abstentions.
Due to BA’s increased assault on our union, our leadership and our membership, this branch calls on the Joint General Secretaries to initiate a ballot for Industrial Action as soon as possible, with the exact timing left to the discretion of the committee.
We would also like Unite to advise the travelling public that there is every likelihood of industrial action over the autumn and winter months.
There then followed an in depth report back from OH Parsons re the legal situation vis a vis staff travel, unlawful deductions of wages and the imposition of taking crew off an aircraft appeal. Suffice to say the talking is now over and the solicitors are now putting into place the relevant procedures necessary to fight all these cases through the courts. OH Parsons agreed to issue a newsletter to bring all members up to date asap. The floor were very vocal and insistent that action had to start immediately and there had been too much talking up to now.
There was a further proposal - supported unanimously from the floor to raise the BASSA subs by £5 per month to help meet travelling costs to and from work to all those commuters who have lost staff travel. This would just be for the time the ban remains in place. It was agreed however to put this to an online poll on the BASSA website to give everybody the chance to have a say on this. The poll is up and running and it was agreed we would all be bound by the outcome.
An update was given on the situation re volunteer reps. There is a feeling that BA may take punitive action against any member who does BASSA/AMICUS work in their spare time. Legal advice needs to be taken on this to see if there is any potential breach of contract issues.
It was also reported back that Unite had paid out £2.83m in strike pay to 6,729 striking crew members (average claim 10 days) and that hardship loans had now been granted to all those deemed deserving.
The meeting concluded with a pensions debrief by Ed Sabisky of Unite.
The meeting can probably be best summed up by most people’s parting shot -
SEE YOU AT BEDFONT!
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There was a further proposal - supported unanimously from the floor to raise the BASSA subs by £5 per month to help meet travelling costs to and from work to all those commuters who have lost staff travel.
This is an interesting one that may result in a few more leaving the union.
The suggestion being that ST for people that choose (predominantly) to live outside the UK, thereby escaping its inclement weather, cost of living and tax, is more important than the ST that UK residents use to take their partners on a yearly holiday for example.
Perhaps it is but I don’t imagine that everyone will think so.
Bearing in mind the type that frequents the BASSA web site I would imagine this motion will be carried by a high percentage, of those that vote of course!
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ranger07,
Please can you post what DH is saying about 'scabs' as being someone who worked during the strike it would be helpful to know what this man is saying about people like me.
Many thanks
Please can you post what DH is saying about 'scabs' as being someone who worked during the strike it would be helpful to know what this man is saying about people like me.
Many thanks
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Snas,
You are so right, many of the crew that live in other countries slip through the tax system altogether or are taxed less in the country they live in. I believe in France air crew pay almost no tax on their overseas allowances, so many of them are affectively earning more than their UK counterparts which is often why they choose to live overseas. !!!
Not sure if I were a Bassa uk resident I would be too happy about that.
You are so right, many of the crew that live in other countries slip through the tax system altogether or are taxed less in the country they live in. I believe in France air crew pay almost no tax on their overseas allowances, so many of them are affectively earning more than their UK counterparts which is often why they choose to live overseas. !!!
Not sure if I were a Bassa uk resident I would be too happy about that.
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the sight of the two small children wearing “BA sacked my Mum” t-shirts was very poignant and a timely reminder that decent ordinary crew are losing their livelihoods due to one man’s bullying and intransigence.
Last edited by RadarIdent; 6th Sep 2010 at 19:10.
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Betty Girl
Also in a well known newspaper now-
The secretary of Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, said the union could not prevent BA from using auxiliary crew to operate planes during strikes, but it would try to dissuade passengers from flying with BA by maintaining the threat of walkouts. Duncan Holley, Bassa secretary, said: "It is very hard to stop aircraft from flying with scab crew. But you can create enough doubt and uncertainty to make people refrain from buying tickets."
The secretary of Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, said the union could not prevent BA from using auxiliary crew to operate planes during strikes, but it would try to dissuade passengers from flying with BA by maintaining the threat of walkouts. Duncan Holley, Bassa secretary, said: "It is very hard to stop aircraft from flying with scab crew. But you can create enough doubt and uncertainty to make people refrain from buying tickets."
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ranger07,
Thanks for that.
All I see now is a Union that has lost all sense of what it should be doing and just seeking revenge, instead and is leading it's followers into even more of a mess.
I feel for the nice crew among the Bassa supporters that have got themselves tangled up in this mess, that Bassa has brought on them but another part of me is just so annoyed at how the name of British Airways Cabin Crew is being dragged through the mud by Bassa.
Thanks for that.
All I see now is a Union that has lost all sense of what it should be doing and just seeking revenge, instead and is leading it's followers into even more of a mess.
I feel for the nice crew among the Bassa supporters that have got themselves tangled up in this mess, that Bassa has brought on them but another part of me is just so annoyed at how the name of British Airways Cabin Crew is being dragged through the mud by Bassa.
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BASSA Spin Machine
So, LM claims that the FB pilots have been sacked, 1500 people managed to pack into the 650 max. capacity venue, even though BBC/Skynews reports upto 1000. Oh yes and the 7000-8000 strikers has now dropped to 6700 or so, which was never really in dispute - it's not the amount of claims it's the 4963 that have lost ST!
If I was a BASSA member I would feel deeply offended that my union thinks I am stupid enough to believe the rubbish they spin time and again.
Mind you one thing they have confirmed that is true - "Turkeys really do vote for christmas!"
If I was a BASSA member I would feel deeply offended that my union thinks I am stupid enough to believe the rubbish they spin time and again.
Mind you one thing they have confirmed that is true - "Turkeys really do vote for christmas!"
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I believe in France air crew pay almost no tax on their overseas allowances, so many of them are affectively earning more than their UK counterparts which is often why they choose to live overseas. !!!
The reason why so many choose to live overseas is that the cost of living and renting is much cheaper. It also used to be the high exchange rate of the £ against the €, which is not that interesting any more.
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Nope
In France taxes are just applied differently, but the taxes you pay at the end of the year are almost the same. Also, the total of the salary of a CC is made differently in differnt airlines/countries. In some airlines what makes the difference is allowances, in others flight hours, or bar sales, that are all taxed differently.
The reason why so many choose to live overseas is that the cost of living and renting is much cheaper.
The reason why so many choose to live overseas is that the cost of living and renting is much cheaper.
If you live in France but work for British Airways you pay almost no tax.
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Flyblue,
Thanks for that information.
I have however been told by some BA crew that they pay no tax. They get paid tax free by BA because they fill out the relevant forms declaring that they live overseas but they never bother telling the country that they live in that they should be paying tax there. They somhow slip through the system. I expect it is a minority though.
Thanks for that information.
I have however been told by some BA crew that they pay no tax. They get paid tax free by BA because they fill out the relevant forms declaring that they live overseas but they never bother telling the country that they live in that they should be paying tax there. They somhow slip through the system. I expect it is a minority though.
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Due to BA’s increased assault on our union, our leadership and our membership, this branch calls on the Joint General Secretaries to initiate a ballot for Industrial Action as soon as possible, with the exact timing left to the discretion of the committee.
The way I read the above is that Bassa actually don't have Unite's permission to call for a Ballot.
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Thank you all
Well been reading this site for months.
Great to see some things will never change!!
Some of the comments on here are so funny to read.
Out of a membership of 10,500 ,1462 showed up at Kempton Park today.Take into account the number of crew in the air,downroute and unable to attend due to having their staff travel removed for being naughty,this is an excellent turn out and clear message to the the 'little' bully!!.
My question is regarding staff travel is,if the BA pilots had striked over Openskies(at Easter,you naughty professional people)!!,would you have had your staff travel taken away?.Just a thought!!.
Anyway just booked my Club World tickets for two to St Kitts and two Club Europe tickets to Rome.....On Airmiles.
Sleep well all.
WTDWL.
Great to see some things will never change!!
Some of the comments on here are so funny to read.
Out of a membership of 10,500 ,1462 showed up at Kempton Park today.Take into account the number of crew in the air,downroute and unable to attend due to having their staff travel removed for being naughty,this is an excellent turn out and clear message to the the 'little' bully!!.
My question is regarding staff travel is,if the BA pilots had striked over Openskies(at Easter,you naughty professional people)!!,would you have had your staff travel taken away?.Just a thought!!.
Anyway just booked my Club World tickets for two to St Kitts and two Club Europe tickets to Rome.....On Airmiles.
Sleep well all.
WTDWL.
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They get paid tax free by BA because they fill out the relevant forms declaring that they live overseas but they never bother telling the country that they live in that they should be paying tax there.
), and I know that she pays more or less the same as her husband who works for AF.
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So there you have it. Another very predictable outcome. BASSA called a mass meeting. Several people turned up. Hot air spouted. Members gee'd up. Someone calls for strike action and the lemmings all vote for it.
Few inconsistencies here and there.
a) the number of attendees varies according to the time of day and who's reports you read. Sky News were initially reporting that 'dozens' of cabin crew attended the meeting (Sky News at 2:18pm.) By 3:23pm the figure had gone up to more than 1000. Fox News said that 2000 cabin crew attended the meeting. All very puzzling as the capacity of the exhibition area (the largest single room available at Kempton Park) is a mere 750. I do hope nobody told the local council or the fire brigade as Kempton would be in hot water for exceeding their safety certificate.
b) I thought that the meeting was only open to members of the union. So how come children were admitted ? If it's OK for kids to attend, why shouldn't any non-union member walk in ?
The call for an increase in subs by £5 to support the commuters who lost staff travel is novel. Considering the majority of attendees were strikers (can't see anyone who had been tarred as a scab wishing to show their face) it shows a remarkable lack of democractic process. Doubtless the online ballot will also be in favour. Net result is likely to be even more cabin crew quietly resigning from the union. Quite why anyone in BASSA should pay for a fellow member's foolishness is beyond me, but there again, that seems to be typical of the union.
In the background, Messrs Woodley and Simpson are trying to put together a deal with BA. From BA's perspective, BASSA actions just undermine any faith the company can have in the Unite leadeship being able to bring about an end to this dispute. BASSA have now signed their own death warrant. BA will state, with some justification, that it is pointless in dealing with Unite as BASSA will reject any deal agreed. Unite will then have to demonstrate to BA either that they have the clout to bring BASSA to heel, or that they have given up on the branch and cut them loose. Unite can show their clout by refusing to call for a strike ballot. It won't sit well with BASSA, especially as Brendan Gold seems supportive of the move. Unite probably realise that if they allow a ballot to go forward and a majority support strike action, the union is in grave danger of being taken to the cleaners for BA's losses. Moreover, since the action is clearly a continuation of the existing dispute, strikers are putting their own jobs on the line. Just as BA management have shown weakness in the past in not dealing with BASSA firmly, Unite now face the same dilemma.
Few inconsistencies here and there.
a) the number of attendees varies according to the time of day and who's reports you read. Sky News were initially reporting that 'dozens' of cabin crew attended the meeting (Sky News at 2:18pm.) By 3:23pm the figure had gone up to more than 1000. Fox News said that 2000 cabin crew attended the meeting. All very puzzling as the capacity of the exhibition area (the largest single room available at Kempton Park) is a mere 750. I do hope nobody told the local council or the fire brigade as Kempton would be in hot water for exceeding their safety certificate.
b) I thought that the meeting was only open to members of the union. So how come children were admitted ? If it's OK for kids to attend, why shouldn't any non-union member walk in ?
The call for an increase in subs by £5 to support the commuters who lost staff travel is novel. Considering the majority of attendees were strikers (can't see anyone who had been tarred as a scab wishing to show their face) it shows a remarkable lack of democractic process. Doubtless the online ballot will also be in favour. Net result is likely to be even more cabin crew quietly resigning from the union. Quite why anyone in BASSA should pay for a fellow member's foolishness is beyond me, but there again, that seems to be typical of the union.
In the background, Messrs Woodley and Simpson are trying to put together a deal with BA. From BA's perspective, BASSA actions just undermine any faith the company can have in the Unite leadeship being able to bring about an end to this dispute. BASSA have now signed their own death warrant. BA will state, with some justification, that it is pointless in dealing with Unite as BASSA will reject any deal agreed. Unite will then have to demonstrate to BA either that they have the clout to bring BASSA to heel, or that they have given up on the branch and cut them loose. Unite can show their clout by refusing to call for a strike ballot. It won't sit well with BASSA, especially as Brendan Gold seems supportive of the move. Unite probably realise that if they allow a ballot to go forward and a majority support strike action, the union is in grave danger of being taken to the cleaners for BA's losses. Moreover, since the action is clearly a continuation of the existing dispute, strikers are putting their own jobs on the line. Just as BA management have shown weakness in the past in not dealing with BASSA firmly, Unite now face the same dilemma.
Junior trash
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Out of a membership of 10,500 ,1462 showed up at Kempton Park today.Take into account the number of crew in the air,downroute and unable to attend due to having their staff travel removed for being naughty,this is an excellent turn out and clear message to the the 'little' bully!!.
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Dear me whatimedoweland. must be a great blow to have to use airmiles for flights when they could have been free. Jolly good for BA though as it's all revenue, so thanks mate. Do hope your flights are this side of Xmas as you wouldn't want to have them blown by a cabin crew strike. But there again, given that St Kitts is served from LGW and they didn't walk out I guess you are pretty safe in that one.
Did 1462 people really turn up ? Wow. Where did you put them all ? Did the meeting overspill into the Premier suite as well ? Actually, it must have covered more than that. Premier suite capacity 600, Exhibition area capacity 750, (see Kempton Park's site for details) And I have bells on the other leg.
Did 1462 people really turn up ? Wow. Where did you put them all ? Did the meeting overspill into the Premier suite as well ? Actually, it must have covered more than that. Premier suite capacity 600, Exhibition area capacity 750, (see Kempton Park's site for details) And I have bells on the other leg.
flyblue/Betty girl
So it's not that you pay less tax in France, it's plain tax fraud.
They get paid tax free by BA because they fill out the relevant forms declaring that they live overseas
they never bother telling the country that they live in that they should be paying tax there.
it's not that you pay less tax in France, it's plain tax fraud
Last edited by wiggy; 6th Sep 2010 at 21:52.