British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[Caribbean Boy]

Support BA

dave3 wrote:

I Support BA and have lost my staff travel because I went on strike not because I dont support BA but because I took part in legal Industrial action.

No, Dave, I can't allow you to get away with saying that you support BA when you did exactly the opposite when you supported your union instead of BA. You supported your union which took BA to the High Court over the imposition of of cabin crew complements and lost the case. You supported your union which repeatedly called damaging strikes in an attempt to bully BA into submission.

And these strikes caused a lot of problems for pax which other people had to sort out. I was one of those people and, believe me, none of us thought of strikers as being supportive of BA.

[Hubert Davenport]

Ivor,
I think you will find this is a question for the BASSA membership and no real reason for DH to respond to this forum. Well you have thrown the question out to the pack. I doubt that it is the business of the majority or this forum.

[ptc]

Quote from Ottergirl

'Wickedly I am wondering if there will not be a fight to the death for any spare food given the projected hourly rate and the cost of eating down-route. Doing the maths, 24 hours in FCO or CDG or CPH - £2.40 an hour isn't going to leave a lot of headroom for socialising.'

I wasn't going to post again but felt I had to reply to Ottergirl!

FYI Many of my previous airlines, the flight duty pay was very similar to that of our £2.40 per hour here at BA. I still managed to be able to socialise with others, it didn't really pose much of an issue! Also i am pretty sure the flight crew always seem to know the best and cheapest places for a beer!!!!!

[dave3]

Hi Caribbean boy, I do believe I support BA I have worked for them for many years some times even unpaid. I voted as an individual to take part in Legal Industrial action which is my democratic right as a uk resident. I voted individualy as an individual who is part of a union. Had the majority vote not been in favour of strike action non would have been taken.
I went on strike to protect what IMHO is my T&C's that I have worked with for some 20+ years. Everyday I put my uniform on I support my crew and support BA. Just because I chose to stand up for what I believe in does not make me unsupportive of BA.. I/We gave up alot through stike action(please you will all have your own oppinions on that) but loosing money and loosing staff travel have all hit strikers hard. but we believe this company can be back to full performance with out such radical changes.. we did offer cuts I believe we need to change, but I also believe this is not all about change. For the people who went into work that was also your choice, did you do it for free? did you refuse the extras you were offered whilst working during the strikes?.. I doubt it. so please do not tell me that we do not support the company, there were lots of people that earned a lot of money by going into work during the strikes and lots of people that lost a lot of money.

[Charlie Pop]

Of course it wouldn't be 24 hrs in CDG, it'd be a 12 ish hour slip typically (mixed fleet are unlikely to be doing any one out - one back trips like Eurofleet). So if it's say 24 hours away from base, thats 24*£2.40=£57.60. From that you'll need to buy dinner and a bit of breakfast but I still reckon you'd have £20+ left over for a glass of vin rouge. Quite workable I think, as long as you don't rely on room service!

[fly12345]

Dave,
Non strikers did not make any extra money (in my case a NBO, DEL and LAS) but simply showed up for their rostered duties.
You might have a right to strike and in doing so damage the company you work for but your right should be used for an indisputable reason and so far your reason is not only disputable but grossly misrepresented, probably misunderstood and completely out of proportion.
You might have a right to demonstrate but not to destroy the very company that pays your wages.

[dave3]

fly you have the right to your opinion and I have a right to mine
FACT alot of people going into work earned more money than agreed alowances.. we all know what the added extras were. I/we did not distroy a company... infact great news it is now just bringing 2 more jumbo's back on line due to increased flights. The ceo and the managers are enjoying bonuses.. not a company in crisis.. When we all joined as crew we had the right to join a union in my case it was compulsary to be in a union.. that has since changed however the company worked along side the union for many years, this is not the first strike in BA history it would be great if it was the last but again I will demonstrate my legal right to strike again if I have to.

[Caribbean Boy]

Hi Dave, whenever I did volunteer shifts I got paid whatever the shift allowance was at the time. Sometimes I worked during regular office hours, so no shift pay was received. The fact that some of these shifts occurred because of strikes was not particularly relevant in that I do volunteering whenever I can help out during a disruption - whatever the cause (for security, bad weather, T5 moves, strikes, volcanic ash, etc).

Nobody is questioning your support for BA when you put on your uniform, but the point is that you damaged BA when you didn't. You also say that you offered cuts. It's also been pointed out too many times that the pay cuts were only loans which Unite expected to be repaid in full (their words, not mine). The other cuts in costs failed to meet BA's requirements for permanent savings.

You say you went on strike to protect your T&Cs, but you - like other strikers - haven't given a cogent case for the strikes. If you have such a case then do present it, because nobody so far has been successful in doing so.

[Desk Jocky]

Dave3 wrote:
I do believe I support BA I have worked for them for many years some times even unpaid. I voted as an individual to take part in Legal Industrial action which is my democratic right as a uk resident. I voted individualy as an individual who is part of a union. Had the majority vote not been in favour of strike action non would have been taken.

I truly believe that you HAVE been a BA supporter, but I'm sorry to say the moment you took you democratic right to choose BASSA over BA, you ceased to be a 100% supporter of BA, and will remain so until you accept that change has to come and that it can't be temporary, it must be permanent.

You mention radical changes, but you seem to have simply glossed over the fact that before the IA, NF had been removed from negotiations, and the "radical" changes you are referring to were the reduction of a single crew member. Losing money was inevitable and is a direct consequence of any IA.

[dave3]

I believe and pray that Mr walsh and Unite are in talks to discuss the issues you raise and hope that like you there is a speedy resolution to this dispute.. No one in there right mind from either side of the fence can be finding this comfortable. From your conversation can I take it you are not crew..I am crew and have been through many disputes before all were resolved. I like you have worked off duty even taking pax from my home airport when it was closed hundreds of miles in a hire car I took them to LHR so they could get their flight at christmas..
The decisions that are being made have not been taken lightly. It seems that the forum readers here think that we are crazy millitants who want the down fall of our company..that would be madness we want to protect our T&C's will offer change, but more than anything feel that the need to keep the brand is so important. There are lots of posters on here that state they have come from other airlines..why did you leave if your T&C's were so good? I joined with T&C's and will do all I can to keep them.

[dave3]

Desk we knew we would loose money taking part in IA and were prepared for that we however lost a lot more than that.. sorry but not prepared to go into that point anyfurther on this public forum. You will feel you are right we will feel we are right the middle ground is here we are all at least talking. BASSA had offices in T5 so BA have also always recognised the union and what can happen during legal IA. Mr Walsh a union rep himself would have always realised the results a ballot can bring.
I truly believe I was, am and always will be a BA supporter.

[vctenderness]

A number of responses to my earlier posting have tried to make light of the money involved in BASSA.
The reps should be paid or not paid enough or worth every peeny.

However the point is very much being missed The Branch Secretary with a membership of (claimed) 10,000 would receive 5% of £12 per month which is the standard subscription rate to Unite (BASSA adds a branch fund element which is not subject to honararium)

That is 5% of £120,000 per month which is £6000 per month!

Even if you said DH gives half to the branch it still is £3,000 pm which is £36,000 per annum - not to be sneezed at.

So before his dismissal from BA, on these figures, he would be on £43,000 as CSD + £36,000 BS Honorarium + £100 per day + flying allowances if he managed to do a trip - not bad!

The reps on £100 pd is not the issue they would mainly have lost trips and had travel expenses as well.

[jetset lady]

FYI Many of my previous airlines, the flight duty pay was very similar to that of our £2.40 per hour here at BA. I still managed to be able to socialise with others, it didn't really pose much of an issue! Also i am pretty sure the flight crew always seem to know the best and cheapest places for a beer!!!!!

Many of your previous airlines? How many have you worked for? And were "many" schedule? That's no slur on charter or low cost. I'm proud to have worked for a charter airline but I also know that the commision and longer lay overs bumped up the money considerably. As a temp, you will know that the commision doesn't compare even slightly but have you yet worked the hourly rate with no allowances.

And there you go again. The flight crew will know where to find cheap beer. The flight crew will get the food. The flight crew were slated. Not crew as a whole which could have applied to any of the above but "flight crew". You appear to have one focus and it 'aint the job! Well, two if you include fun, fun, fun! Not once have you mentioned our passengers or the other crew that have also had a hard time during this IA. Why are you doing this job, pct?

So if it's say 24 hours away from base, thats 24*£2.40=£57.60. From that you'll need to buy dinner and a bit of breakfast but I still reckon you'd have £20+ left over for a glass of vin rouge. Quite workable I think, as long as you don't rely on room service

Not workable at all. You forget that very few crew can live on the £800 per month take home unless it's a second wage or they still live with their parents. Rightly or wrongly, those allowances will be used to survive. They have to be! I have no dependants and but I find it a struggle. Nothing to do with BA. More to do with the ever increasing basic cost of living! Reality will bite, just like it did at LGW and probably around the same time that the HOST bill bites. Been there, done that.

This thread isn't for Cabin Crew anymore. It's for Pilots, Groundstaff and anyone that agrees with the regulars. If you don't believe me, look way back to the first threads when this all started, where many cabin crew posted regularly. Then look at how many are posting now.

Then again, that could also be because everything that can be said has been said. More than once.

[ottergirl]

FYI Many of my previous airlines, the flight duty pay was very similar to that of our £2.40 per hour here at BA. I still managed to be able to socialise with others, it didn't really pose much of an issue! Also i am pretty sure the flight crew always seem to know the best and cheapest places for a beer!!!!!

Not the ones on Eurofleet, they are used to the finer things in life! In the old days the Flight Engineer could be relied on but now, if you can find a cheap beer in Oslo, I'll pay for it!

Of course it wouldn't be 24 hrs in CDG, it'd be a 12 ish hour slip typically (mixed fleet are unlikely to be doing any one out - one back trips like Eurofleet). So if it's say 24 hours away from base, thats 24*£2.40=£57.60. From that you'll need to buy dinner and a bit of breakfast but I still reckon you'd have £20+ left over for a glass of vin rouge. Quite workable I think, as long as you don't rely on room service!

As for Charlie Pop, that assumes that they wouldn't need much to live on and that the tax man might not have an interest! I can't imagine that the likes of Paris Hilton would be popping over to MF for a laugh, most of these guys are going to be working their rear ends off because they need to earn a living not just to go drinking in dodgy bars. That £20 that you want them to be buying 'vin rouge' with will be needed to pay the bills.

12 ish hour slip

that'll save some money in europe, out of hours for drinking in a lot of places.

[dave3]

It does cost to be crew.
Commuting to and from work
You need to be groomed at all times.
No roots on show and your hair must be well groomed.
clean smart shoes x2
neat nails
moisurisers for skin because of dehydration due to flying
smart clothes in case you have to pos cab home.
Dry cleaned uniform
a big chunk of your pay does go on looking smart.
for the ladies cosmetics.
then down route paying for food and drinks.
I find most of the places the flight deck go to very expensive.
I dont like to delcy dine so my expenses go on food.

[Rover90]

I posted yesterday evening in a supposed frivolous manner and it was responded to by "numberfifteenplease" in an equally frivolous manner and exception was taken by the mods so apologies for that.

As we move towards October, we are almost one year on since the "imposition" of 14 crew as opposed to 15 on a 744. That is almost £60 million savings on a year of operating.

I have embraced the change as a CSD and have to say that it is not a problem as long as the rest of the crew are up to speed as well. Have to say that the probable winner in all this is a Purser working down as main crew who works Upper Deck.

Wise words have been offered by some respected senior crew to "ptc" regarding his/her unbounding enthusiasm for MF, have to agree that MF is going to wear pretty thin for main crew in a short time having seen the package.

I now check in for a WW flight and all I sense is the issue of who went on strike and who did not. The strikers drawing strength from finding other like minded souls, the non strikers delighted to find that they are not alone.

Could we perhaps agree that the past industrial actions were not really effective in changing the management position. It is easy to blame that on the crew who did not take industrial action but one has to respect their right to choose to work just as they respect your right to take industrial action.

So now we are bogged down in events of the past whilst BA presses on with changes to future working that they could only have dreamed of in June 2009. I fail to see any influence being exerted by BASSA and surely that has been the case over the last year.

Indeed there would appear to be very few options left open to BASSA and because of that lack of direction, there exists a group of followers who have little focus other than the heady days of Bedfont and the camaradie they found there.

Is that less frivolous?

[MIDLGW]

Dave3

It does cost to be crew.
Commuting to and from work
You need to be groomed at all times.
No roots on show and your hair must be well groomed.
clean smart shoes x2
neat nails
moisurisers for skin because of dehydration due to flying
smart clothes in case you have to pos cab home.
Dry cleaned uniform
a big chunk of your pay does go on looking smart.
for the ladies cosmetics.
then down route paying for food and drinks.
I find most of the places the flight deck go to very expensive.
I dont like to delcy dine so my expenses go on food.

Dave,

I'm sorry, but your previous post doesn't wash with me. Being CC doesn't mean we're the only ones in the world who have to look groomed. Most of the girls would use various cosmetics and make-up whether they fly or not, as goes for moisturisers. Not forgetting everyone needs shoes and neat nails (unless you're self-employed, I suppose).

As for the uniform cleaning issue: First of all, you get a free uniform. You don't have to worry about what to wear to work. Most other people in the world have to pay for their work clothes from their own pockets (including dry cleaning). Secondly, if you're worried about the cost of dry cleaning, you can come to LGW if you like, as we get vouchers for this

So, in your experience, the FC want to go to expensive places to eat. Who says you can't suggest somewhere else, more suitable to your wallet? Who says you have to go with them? I tend to suggest places to eat, based mainly on cost, but also on quality. If anyone has objections, I'll happily go somewhere else suitable. I don't do Delsey dining very often, as I'm a somewhat sociable person.

[Right Engine]

A lot of crew choose to stay in their room and then waste their money on room service. Go figure.

[Desk Jocky]

Dave, I don't see the point either in labouring the fact of lost money, that is for you to bear and accept the consequences. Damn right I feel I'm right, I have work for BA close to 25 years, and see little BA support from CC strikers, yes you come into work and get paid for your job, but whilst this dispute is not settled, you can not possibly expect anyone to think you can be in both camps. WW union experience will obviously have helped him, shame some of the BASSA reps have lacked his negotiating skills, and IMO failed their membership, in some vain hope that the courts will some how change their minds.

IMHO BASSA should have recommend the last offer, having seen that strike action was ineffective, and as I see it they are left with very few options now. Further IA is not going to solve anything and could be the final straw to move an up to now very flexible management team to think that now is the time for the 90 day rule to be applied, more so because I can't see a basis for a mandate to strike, that is any different from what has already been used.

I hope that further IA can be overted as it damages both BA reputation, but also seriously affect future business, putting mine and everyone else in BA jobs at risk.

[123breath]

jetset lady

[QUOTE] "This thread isn't for Cabin Crew anymore. It's for Pilots, Groundstaff and anyone that agrees with the regulars. If you don't believe me, look way back to the first threads when this all started, where many cabin crew posted regularly. Then look at how many are posting now." /QUOTE]

Could this be because those supporting BASSA's argument have realized that none exists?

I would suggest that there are still plenty of Cabin Crew posting here, it's just that most of them have abandoned any pretence that BA are evil and BASSA are good.