British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I'm slightly confused by the latest Unite position.
From what I can see, there could be two reasons.
1. It's part of a plan to help them fight a legal challenge from BA assuming they get a yes vote (ie demonstrating they fully consulted without giving the membership a steer etc).
2. They are squeezing BASSA into submission in the hope the workforce will vote to accept the offer.
Whilst I would like to think option 2 was happening, I can't see BASSA taking it as quietly as they currently seem to be doing? I therefore suspect it's more likely to be option 1.
It will be interesting to see what the detailed pack of information supporting the ballot contains, but I'm very sceptical about the noises currently coming from Unite.
From what I can see, there could be two reasons.
1. It's part of a plan to help them fight a legal challenge from BA assuming they get a yes vote (ie demonstrating they fully consulted without giving the membership a steer etc).
2. They are squeezing BASSA into submission in the hope the workforce will vote to accept the offer.
Whilst I would like to think option 2 was happening, I can't see BASSA taking it as quietly as they currently seem to be doing? I therefore suspect it's more likely to be option 1.
It will be interesting to see what the detailed pack of information supporting the ballot contains, but I'm very sceptical about the noises currently coming from Unite.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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of course a person who comes to work once a month, can potentially have more passion for their job that a full time employer that for the past 26 years has been coming to work EVERY DAY...
and secondly a person with a university degree can potentially have a better judgement when thinking and assessing facts, than someone who came in BA straight after school...
if I was working under someones terms and conditions that allow them to live in a place like RSA, then coming to work to do a flight would be a break!
if someone dislikes management so much, just because they have decided its now time for THEM and not bassa to run this airline, they can simply leave! Their imput and productivity is not significant anyway...
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Ava Hannah,
My point is that you posted the fact that crew who came to work don't have pride in what they do which is absolute nonsense!
My point is that you posted the fact that crew who came to work don't have pride in what they do which is absolute nonsense!
The point I made about Mixed Fleet is that the CSM role is interesting and challenging and being a motivated person, I would enjoy the challenge. Why would I want to give up a job that I'm passionate about and still enjoy?
How do you propose to do that Ava?
By striking and destroying our customers travel plans?
You will only destroy what you want most, hardly a sensible thing to do as it's obvious you have achieved nothing so far.
By striking and destroying our customers travel plans?
You will only destroy what you want most, hardly a sensible thing to do as it's obvious you have achieved nothing so far.
It has been unsuccessful because crew crossed the picket line and staff from other departments were brought in to fill our roles.
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Ava, have BASSA done no wrong through your eyes?
You seem to deflect all eloquent responses with utter irrevelence. You've also become the focal point on the other forum. Have a look at some of the posts,there's one such passenger that wishes not to fly with strikers..if that were possible. Suffice to say, there is no support.
So, when will you accept 'game over'? I wish you all the best, but honestly, please look beyond BASSA. D.H has his own agenda...don't be a gambit for his cause.
You seem to deflect all eloquent responses with utter irrevelence. You've also become the focal point on the other forum. Have a look at some of the posts,there's one such passenger that wishes not to fly with strikers..if that were possible. Suffice to say, there is no support.
So, when will you accept 'game over'? I wish you all the best, but honestly, please look beyond BASSA. D.H has his own agenda...don't be a gambit for his cause.
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Ava.
You have lost the plot. It was BASSA that wanted us all to have a pay cut not BA.
The offer has been improved because of non strikers talking with BF and telling him what we would prefer. ie. Leave the crew, BASSA wants back on, off. Normal varriables like now and NO pay cut, like the one BASSA asked for in exchange for crew back on. Beleive it or not but during the strike Bill was in the Crew report centre alot talking to all of us!!
BASSA and your strike has not gained anything that a normal negotiating union would have got for us without a strike.
Except lose you your staff travel !!!!
You have lost the plot. It was BASSA that wanted us all to have a pay cut not BA.
The offer has been improved because of non strikers talking with BF and telling him what we would prefer. ie. Leave the crew, BASSA wants back on, off. Normal varriables like now and NO pay cut, like the one BASSA asked for in exchange for crew back on. Beleive it or not but during the strike Bill was in the Crew report centre alot talking to all of us!!
BASSA and your strike has not gained anything that a normal negotiating union would have got for us without a strike.
Except lose you your staff travel !!!!
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Some weeks ago I was suspended from this site for saying that a particular contributor was the problem and not the solution.
I still think this is the case as regardless of how much evidence there is that a compromised solution could have been found months ago, there seems to be a very loud and vocal minority successfully brainwashing the majority in keeping fighting and destroying any chance of an honorable escape route to this insane and damaging dispute.
I still think this is the case as regardless of how much evidence there is that a compromised solution could have been found months ago, there seems to be a very loud and vocal minority successfully brainwashing the majority in keeping fighting and destroying any chance of an honorable escape route to this insane and damaging dispute.
You honestly couldn't write better comedy!
Ava -
As has been mentioned, last year you had a better deal on the table, full staff travel AND a pay rise. It was you disfunctional union that gave all of that away and offered a pay cut!!! AND, you pay monthly subs for the priviledge.
Ava -
The strike has been both successful and unsuccessful. Successful wise, we have managed to get a pay rise instead of a pay cut
To go back to my point of a few pages ago -
If I turned up for interview as CC and during the selection process it became apparent that I refused to hear other peoples points of view and blatantly disregarded what were factually and legally accepted facts, would I expect to get the job?
If the answer to that is no, then why should people who have this entrenched position continue to expect to be employed as CC in a safety critical industry?
If I turned up for interview as CC and during the selection process it became apparent that I refused to hear other peoples points of view and blatantly disregarded what were factually and legally accepted facts, would I expect to get the job?
If the answer to that is no, then why should people who have this entrenched position continue to expect to be employed as CC in a safety critical industry?
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An extract from "Interested" post 665
Very interesting post "Interested".
It would take some very powerful personalities with a firm grip of the bigger picture to help drive somthing like that through. My gut feeling however is that the other Unite representations may not want to touch the Bassa dispute with a very long barge pole. When I speak to reps within engineering the reaction seems to be at best a rolling of the eyeballs concerning BASSA conduct and at worst utter condemnation of BASSA's inability to negotiate responsibly. Of course, that is just the reaction of the few I have spoken to but I get the impression that it represents the reactions of many and that willpower within the engineering arm of UNITE might be in short supply to help sort this mess out. The malaise surrounding the cancelled unite membership subscriptions within engineering only reinforces this view for me. Apart from that, would BASSA even welcome such a move ?
So in reality the anti Bassa people are part of the problem and also part of the solution. I suggest that the UNITE membership ( non BASSA) now use their membership to put pressure on the UNITE Union to find a solution
I was a Union rep, and have seen this before, The solution was a "committee" outside of cabin crew ( unite reps within BA)hold the talks with management to find the solution , of course they report back to BASSA and also take on board "Cabin Crew fears" Everything can be on the table, Its a "win" "win" situtaion for both sides and the final position can be put honestly to all the members.
That folks is how a Union should work, The majority eventually take control ( not a single branch dictating), It workers power taking control and remember the "good times" will come back and as they say you can always "wait in the long grass"
I was a Union rep, and have seen this before, The solution was a "committee" outside of cabin crew ( unite reps within BA)hold the talks with management to find the solution , of course they report back to BASSA and also take on board "Cabin Crew fears" Everything can be on the table, Its a "win" "win" situtaion for both sides and the final position can be put honestly to all the members.
That folks is how a Union should work, The majority eventually take control ( not a single branch dictating), It workers power taking control and remember the "good times" will come back and as they say you can always "wait in the long grass"
Very interesting post "Interested".
It would take some very powerful personalities with a firm grip of the bigger picture to help drive somthing like that through. My gut feeling however is that the other Unite representations may not want to touch the Bassa dispute with a very long barge pole. When I speak to reps within engineering the reaction seems to be at best a rolling of the eyeballs concerning BASSA conduct and at worst utter condemnation of BASSA's inability to negotiate responsibly. Of course, that is just the reaction of the few I have spoken to but I get the impression that it represents the reactions of many and that willpower within the engineering arm of UNITE might be in short supply to help sort this mess out. The malaise surrounding the cancelled unite membership subscriptions within engineering only reinforces this view for me. Apart from that, would BASSA even welcome such a move ?
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a question :
Hi all,
i have a question - why is the company sending out an 'offer document' to non union members for them to accept ? I flew with someone today who was told by Bill Francis that if they were not part of the union they would be sent this document and could make their own decision, if they were still a union member, the union would be responsible for them, collectively
I think BA is doing something here - get out of the union now (or be xxxxxx), is what I hear, what does everyone else think ?
i have a question - why is the company sending out an 'offer document' to non union members for them to accept ? I flew with someone today who was told by Bill Francis that if they were not part of the union they would be sent this document and could make their own decision, if they were still a union member, the union would be responsible for them, collectively
I think BA is doing something here - get out of the union now (or be xxxxxx), is what I hear, what does everyone else think ?
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Don't think it's anything sinister LTF
I see the offer to non-union crew as being BF's way of saying thanks for working. Non-union staff are normally bound by whatever decision is agreed by the bargaining group. To me this rather firmly indicates that if Unite reject this final offer, there will be no other one made. Now that would be grossly unfair to all the non-union staff who a) will have worked normally and b) not be in a position to negotiate seperately.
Unite may wail that this is being divisive, but the days of the closed shop are long gone. It remains to be seen whether Unite members see this as BA management dividing the bargaining group into two seperate elements - Unite members and the rest. If Unite membership amongst cabin crew is waning ths could signal that BA is heading for dropping recognition of Unite as representing the bargaining group, or it could be a way of offering non-union staff a seat in negotiations. Either way it suggests that Unite's influence within cabin crew may be limited.
I thought that Bill's note to staff indicated that union members should lobby their leadership for a ballot on the matter, as opposed to letting the 'negotiating' team make the decision for them. I'm guessing that Bill reckons there is a majoity that would accept BA's offer hence the reason behond this strategy. It has the advantage of forcing the Unie leadership into holding a consultative ballot that must be seen to be free and fair. It also, coincidentally puts the chance of a strike back into September - i.e. after the school holidays, thereby protecting the revenue over the summer. Oh and when does New Fleet come on stream ??
Unite may wail that this is being divisive, but the days of the closed shop are long gone. It remains to be seen whether Unite members see this as BA management dividing the bargaining group into two seperate elements - Unite members and the rest. If Unite membership amongst cabin crew is waning ths could signal that BA is heading for dropping recognition of Unite as representing the bargaining group, or it could be a way of offering non-union staff a seat in negotiations. Either way it suggests that Unite's influence within cabin crew may be limited.
I thought that Bill's note to staff indicated that union members should lobby their leadership for a ballot on the matter, as opposed to letting the 'negotiating' team make the decision for them. I'm guessing that Bill reckons there is a majoity that would accept BA's offer hence the reason behond this strategy. It has the advantage of forcing the Unie leadership into holding a consultative ballot that must be seen to be free and fair. It also, coincidentally puts the chance of a strike back into September - i.e. after the school holidays, thereby protecting the revenue over the summer. Oh and when does New Fleet come on stream ??
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It does look as if BA is trying to get more cabin crew out of BASSA as some will sign the new contract as it offers the guaranteed top up payment.
There will, though, be multiple agreements at LHR:
There will, though, be multiple agreements at LHR:
- WW on current contract
- EF on current contract
- WW on new contract
- EF on new contract
- Mixed fleet contract
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Ah but ..
Caribbean boy the split will be thus (assuming that Unite turn down the deal)
- Unite members who are WW on current contract
- Unite members who are EF on current contract
- Non union members who are WW on new contract
- Non union members who are EF on new contract
- Non union members who are on Mixed fleet contract
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Caribbean Boy.....
It doesn't mean there will be a whole load of different contracts. WW
and EF will all be on the same contract as now, earning ETP, B2B, Box payments etc etc....Its just that those who sign to accept the proposal get the guarentee that they will not earn below the average of 2009/2010 for those payments. Allowances and DOA's paid on top of the average payment.
Those who do not sign, have no guarentee...
Therefore.....if BA move lucrative routes to Mixed Fleet, those who have signed will be OK, and those who haven't.....will lose more and more money.......
Feel sorry for them......NOT!!!
It doesn't mean there will be a whole load of different contracts. WW
and EF will all be on the same contract as now, earning ETP, B2B, Box payments etc etc....Its just that those who sign to accept the proposal get the guarentee that they will not earn below the average of 2009/2010 for those payments. Allowances and DOA's paid on top of the average payment.
Those who do not sign, have no guarentee...
Therefore.....if BA move lucrative routes to Mixed Fleet, those who have signed will be OK, and those who haven't.....will lose more and more money.......
Feel sorry for them......NOT!!!
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Once a month?
Ava,
this quote is from your post, #628
In my world 28 days is as good as a month!
May be you should remember or review your previous posts, or perhaps edit with a fuller explanation if you don't want people to get the wrong idea ... 'cos from where I am sitting, that post as good as said "I come to work once a month"
this quote is from your post, #628
I only work 50% and go to the UK every 28 days. I can manage to buy full fares for a while but it is expensive. It's not something I can do long-term but it's not game over yet.
May be you should remember or review your previous posts, or perhaps edit with a fuller explanation if you don't want people to get the wrong idea ... 'cos from where I am sitting, that post as good as said "I come to work once a month"