British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Oh Dear...
Looking through the copy of Duncan's latest missive a few things struck me.
1) Once again we have some dodgy old numbers coming out - the suggestion that a £5 surcharge on the monthly subs will only yield £18 per commuter. At the last reckoning (i.e. before BASSA changed the membership number on their website to read 'about 10,000 members') BASSA had 9279 members. £18 per month is 3.5 member's contributions, so that means the number of commuters is about 2,650 - about 40% of the total number who walked out according to BASSA. That £18 each commuter would receive would include £5 of their own cash, so net result is actually £13. Wouldn't even get a Ryanair flight for that. I did wonder whether the climb down was more to do with lack of enthusiasm in support.
2) Duncan seems to want t obe Mr Popularity with the Unite leadership. Comments like his reference to the Trade Unions Congress as a 'jaunt' will not endear him. Equally, saying that Unite is 'toothless' and effectively saying that if the leadership aren't for BASSA they must be against them will not garner support. Almost sounds like Duncan wants BASSA to cut loose from Unite, something that Unite would be only to pleased to see happen I suspect.
3) Duncan sounds like he wants to shrink the size of the branch down to 6,000. He doesn't seem to have any time for anyone who didn't walk out on strike- the 'if you aren't for us , then you are against us' mentality again. Not sur how that is going to play with the union leadership. To willfully discard 40% of your membership is not going to do much for your credibility.
4) I'm not sure that if I was a branch secretary where a high proportion of my members were of the opposite gender, I would be making light of watching porno movies. Doesn't say much for the union's viewson equality, women's rights etc...
Final thought. BASSA have been appealing for members to stand in as reps. Only one thing wrong with that. Reps should be elected as they are deemed to be the people who have consulted with the membership and are able to represent their views. Self selection doesn't suggest that the volunteers are considered by thier colleagues to be people who canvass and represent the views of all the members. You need an election. Ahhh but that would mean having one for branch secretary as Duncan is no longer qualified as he was sacked by BA.
1) Once again we have some dodgy old numbers coming out - the suggestion that a £5 surcharge on the monthly subs will only yield £18 per commuter. At the last reckoning (i.e. before BASSA changed the membership number on their website to read 'about 10,000 members') BASSA had 9279 members. £18 per month is 3.5 member's contributions, so that means the number of commuters is about 2,650 - about 40% of the total number who walked out according to BASSA. That £18 each commuter would receive would include £5 of their own cash, so net result is actually £13. Wouldn't even get a Ryanair flight for that. I did wonder whether the climb down was more to do with lack of enthusiasm in support.
2) Duncan seems to want t obe Mr Popularity with the Unite leadership. Comments like his reference to the Trade Unions Congress as a 'jaunt' will not endear him. Equally, saying that Unite is 'toothless' and effectively saying that if the leadership aren't for BASSA they must be against them will not garner support. Almost sounds like Duncan wants BASSA to cut loose from Unite, something that Unite would be only to pleased to see happen I suspect.
3) Duncan sounds like he wants to shrink the size of the branch down to 6,000. He doesn't seem to have any time for anyone who didn't walk out on strike- the 'if you aren't for us , then you are against us' mentality again. Not sur how that is going to play with the union leadership. To willfully discard 40% of your membership is not going to do much for your credibility.
4) I'm not sure that if I was a branch secretary where a high proportion of my members were of the opposite gender, I would be making light of watching porno movies. Doesn't say much for the union's viewson equality, women's rights etc...
Final thought. BASSA have been appealing for members to stand in as reps. Only one thing wrong with that. Reps should be elected as they are deemed to be the people who have consulted with the membership and are able to represent their views. Self selection doesn't suggest that the volunteers are considered by thier colleagues to be people who canvass and represent the views of all the members. You need an election. Ahhh but that would mean having one for branch secretary as Duncan is no longer qualified as he was sacked by BA.
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We are at the crossroads and the Unite leadership have one hand on the wheel and the other on the indicator. They need to make the right turning. The wrong one will mean oblivion not only for this union but many others too.
Or they could just go straight on.
Dorkan delivers up soup in a basket again for his hungry flock, and it goes all over his hush puppies.
Or they could just go straight on.
Dorkan delivers up soup in a basket again for his hungry flock, and it goes all over his hush puppies.
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Question about the meeting
Hi
Do you remember if the "Facebook" incident involving Pilots and CC was talked about? If so can you tell us about it? Concern about bullying of crew involved
Do you remember if the "Facebook" incident involving Pilots and CC was talked about? If so can you tell us about it? Concern about bullying of crew involved
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Yes Kirkukk, the flight crew were also bullied in the same manner as cabin crew - through a fair disciplinary process agreed by both BASSA and BALPA.
Go fishing elsewhere!
Go fishing elsewhere!
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Well, on a brighter note, at least the tomato growing season is almost over. I'm not sure I could stand any more status updates, on said fruit. Let's hope "Drunken Duncan" hasn't planted any Winter vegetables. 
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I remember some pages back, alot of excitement from some pro BASSA supporters about the keeping of lists, pages were cut and pasted from various websites and what BA were doing was "illegal" etc etc,
Well I have just come back from a trip with someone at the recent BASSA meeting, and suprise suprise BASSA have actually confirmed at that meeting that BA can keep a list just so long as said list is never used in a discriminatory manner!
Just about what other poster were saying at the time then.........
Well I have just come back from a trip with someone at the recent BASSA meeting, and suprise suprise BASSA have actually confirmed at that meeting that BA can keep a list just so long as said list is never used in a discriminatory manner!
Just about what other poster were saying at the time then.........
The sooner VR is offered the sooner the non performing dead wood can head to a paddock and realize how wonderful they had it ....
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Some Myths busted and questions answered
Hi
First post on pprune from me.
Given that I have no access to the BASSA forum I recently got sent two issues apparently mentioned on there.
I have been asked by a couple of people to clarify a couple of things and answer some questions posed by a couple of people.
So here goes.
Cruise Pilots.
1.Whilst this is causing a lot of white noise on Galley FM BA currently has no intention or plans to hire Cruise Only co-pilots. They are intending to recruit very soon and they will be as FO's.
2.Whilst Cruise pilots may save initially they have their disadvantages particularly in downroute flexibility with regard to sickness etc.
3. Cruise only co-pilots are fully qualified pilots and no cabin crew cannot "apply for the position" (unless of course they get a CPL/IR and the rest).
4. There are not 50000 surplus commercial pilots in the world at the moment.
"CSS" cargo
1. It is GSS not CSS Cargo.
2. GSS is a seperate company who BA have outsourced their cargo operations to. BALPA negotiatd secondment arrangements for BA pilots to take some command positions in GSS.
3. Secondees remain BA mainline employees but are employed on GSS terms and conditions, whilst having BA seniority and other terms protected. On return to BA they resume their career in mainline.
4. GSS pilots will not be flying the BA 787's when they arrive. They don't work for BA.
I think the confusion is that GSS have ordered 747-800's and they will be flying those!
I don't intend this to be a debate on GSS or the merits of CP's but merely to answer some questions and comments I was sent by a colleague.
Feel free to copy my post onto BASSA but I suppose the truth isn't quite as interesting to many as a bit of anti pilot rhetoric.
All the best
Someone seriously in "the know"
First post on pprune from me.
Given that I have no access to the BASSA forum I recently got sent two issues apparently mentioned on there.
I have been asked by a couple of people to clarify a couple of things and answer some questions posed by a couple of people.
So here goes.
Cruise Pilots.
1.Whilst this is causing a lot of white noise on Galley FM BA currently has no intention or plans to hire Cruise Only co-pilots. They are intending to recruit very soon and they will be as FO's.
2.Whilst Cruise pilots may save initially they have their disadvantages particularly in downroute flexibility with regard to sickness etc.
3. Cruise only co-pilots are fully qualified pilots and no cabin crew cannot "apply for the position" (unless of course they get a CPL/IR and the rest).
4. There are not 50000 surplus commercial pilots in the world at the moment.
"CSS" cargo
1. It is GSS not CSS Cargo.
2. GSS is a seperate company who BA have outsourced their cargo operations to. BALPA negotiatd secondment arrangements for BA pilots to take some command positions in GSS.
3. Secondees remain BA mainline employees but are employed on GSS terms and conditions, whilst having BA seniority and other terms protected. On return to BA they resume their career in mainline.
4. GSS pilots will not be flying the BA 787's when they arrive. They don't work for BA.
I think the confusion is that GSS have ordered 747-800's and they will be flying those!
I don't intend this to be a debate on GSS or the merits of CP's but merely to answer some questions and comments I was sent by a colleague.
Feel free to copy my post onto BASSA but I suppose the truth isn't quite as interesting to many as a bit of anti pilot rhetoric.
All the best
Someone seriously in "the know"
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UNITE threaten escalation of dispute company-wide
I'm not one to beleive too much of what is printed in the newspapers, especially the free press, as they are often biased and one-sided in thier reporting.
It was just interesting to read the front page of this weeks Skyport (Heathrow) where Tony Woodley is quoted as saying "This is no longer a matter for BA cabin crew alone" and continues "If trade unionism is smashed among cabin crew then we can be sure that these methods will be extended to other groups of unionised BA employees". There follows more of the usual retoric regarding poor use of disciplinary procedures, etc..
Well he either has a very short memory, or did we not have an announcement last week, that GMB (and UNITE) members of ground crew had voted to accept the agreed new terms for cost reductions. Which now leave the crew as the only group yet to formally agree on any proposals. And I don't think he should count on too much support from any non-crew UNITE member within BA, other than those that can count DH as a fellow union official or friend (if in fact he has any of those?).
It was just interesting to read the front page of this weeks Skyport (Heathrow) where Tony Woodley is quoted as saying "This is no longer a matter for BA cabin crew alone" and continues "If trade unionism is smashed among cabin crew then we can be sure that these methods will be extended to other groups of unionised BA employees". There follows more of the usual retoric regarding poor use of disciplinary procedures, etc..
Well he either has a very short memory, or did we not have an announcement last week, that GMB (and UNITE) members of ground crew had voted to accept the agreed new terms for cost reductions. Which now leave the crew as the only group yet to formally agree on any proposals. And I don't think he should count on too much support from any non-crew UNITE member within BA, other than those that can count DH as a fellow union official or friend (if in fact he has any of those?).
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All quiet on the Western Front?
The BASSAmentalists are now in retreat...but they have a new target...the new crew of MF are soon to get the same treatment as "vile flight deck", VCC, the Pope, etc...
How pathetic that the rabid BASSAmentalists are preparing to terrorize and bully new entrant BA cabin crew. This will only lead to more disciplinaries, whilst St Holley sits amongst his vegetables counting his huge pension.
The BASSAmentalists are now in retreat...but they have a new target...the new crew of MF are soon to get the same treatment as "vile flight deck", VCC, the Pope, etc...
How pathetic that the rabid BASSAmentalists are preparing to terrorize and bully new entrant BA cabin crew. This will only lead to more disciplinaries, whilst St Holley sits amongst his vegetables counting his huge pension.
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@bigbrutha
Why have NONE of those that are sacked and suspended found alternative employment.
Sorry to spoil your story!
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Yes but Ottergirl on the basic pay that the gulf carriers earn, hourly pay, back to the very bottom of the seniority list, and living a long way from home. I have no doubt that at some stage they will ask them selves if it was all worth it?
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I have no doubt that at some stage they will ask them selves if it was all worth it?
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And when they discover they're expected to work on board, and not sit around reading the Daily Mail and heading for the bunks on a 4 hour sector they'll decided to pursue a different career. The Gulf ain't BA.
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@Timothy Claypole
Having worked for a Gulf carrier myself, I can say that there isn't so much difference with BA (contrary to popular believe we do actually work very hard when the flights are busy). Once you're on the plane, your work pattern is dictated by the customers and their call bells to a large extent. The difference between a flight London to Mumbai versus Dubai to Mumbai is negligible. Same passenger profile, same needs! The money in the Gulf is pretty good when you realise that all your accomodation costs are met inclusive of bills so whats in your pay packet is only to feed and clothe you. The ex-pat lifestyle is fantastic, so ideal for a single person. I don't see any BA crew member suffering too much hardship out in the big bad world.
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So not so different and the money was good, yet you left to join BA, doubtless for excellent reasons. There is a world of difference in choosing to work as an ex-pat when young, it is a much different thing to do so at a later point in your career when you have no choice and a family to worry about. Linked to that the lack of unions and changes to service and T&Cs being at the whim of the managers and it doesn't bode well for those, who through their own stupidity, are now looking to the gulf for employment.
Personally I wish them well, perhaps they will have learned to think before acting. A hard lesson to learn, to be sure, but one we all need to understand. Your actions have consequences for which you are responsible. The main thing is that these foolish people are now no longer spreading their particular form of misery in a BA aircraft.
Personally I wish them well, perhaps they will have learned to think before acting. A hard lesson to learn, to be sure, but one we all need to understand. Your actions have consequences for which you are responsible. The main thing is that these foolish people are now no longer spreading their particular form of misery in a BA aircraft.
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 20th Sep 2010 at 09:48.
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How come when BA want to challenge any ballot by Unite they appear to be in court the next day but when UNITE need to challenge BA in the courts over the staff travel issue it takes months (or possibly years).
Is the UNITE legal team actually doing anything or are they on pay as you go ?
Is the UNITE legal team actually doing anything or are they on pay as you go ?
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So not so different and the money was good, yet you left to join BA,
23 years on, I still haven't been interviewed as BA crew!For those of you who don't know any of the people who have lost their jobs, I would like to say that they are not all stupid, foolish, anti BA or any of the other accusations levelled at them by Juan Tugoh and others on this forum. In the case of the person I know well, he was an excellent crew member, a committed and pro-BA purser and certainly spread no misery on-board. Unfortunately, English was not his first language and he failed to realise the significance and danger of repeating a galley joke in print on FB. As you say, a hard lesson learned.
Last edited by ottergirl; 20th Sep 2010 at 13:21.