British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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It is a good and common sense arrangement to properly prepare the aircraft for embarking passengers and crew.
As said a lot of UK airports are woefully unprepared for high temperatures and have little or no ground air conditioning.
It is a matter of common decency not a matter of Bassa!
As said a lot of UK airports are woefully unprepared for high temperatures and have little or no ground air conditioning.
It is a matter of common decency not a matter of Bassa!
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Asylum Update
STOP PRESS!!!!!
Latest update from Bonkersland is that there is no news, and it's all super secret and we can't tell you whats going on as you're not in the super secret club!
Personally I just can't understand it. Given all the reports that Walsh is running scared and under huge pressure from the board and investors how can he afford to be so intransigent? He's acting like someone who has supreme confidence in his strategy and support.
Latest update from Bonkersland is that there is no news, and it's all super secret and we can't tell you whats going on as you're not in the super secret club!
BASSA > Latest News
A QUICK UPDATE
Aug 3rd, 2010 by admin
This is is just a quick update because I told you the branch committee were meeting today, mentioning there might be a Branch meeting called next week and I guess a lot of you will be "tuning in" for some confirmation or not. For various reasons which include, school holidays, availability of venues, reps on leave and a host of reasons I don’t want to reveal to BA, it was decided to hold back any branch meeting until Monday 6th September at Kempton Park (11am). This does not rule out a ballot for industrial action taking place before that date. A fuller explanation with expanded details will be put out later in the week.
The UNITE meeting with Walsh was short (but alas not sweet). He remains as depressingly stubborn and foolishly intransigent as ever, so scheduled talks next week are not expected to bring any dramatic improvements to the situation. Sadly this means the fight goes on and yesterday afternoon we were heartened when JGS Woodley and Simpson guaranteed the continuation of UNITE’s full and unequivocal support.
Like me I expect you are constantly asked by friends, family and people "down the pub" whether or not it is safe to book BA tickets on such and such date. Last year when we announced the 12 days of Xmas we attracted a lot of criticism from the media, and indeed a High Court judge, for ruining the travelling public’s plans over the holiday period. Notice was indeed short and the fact many could not make alternative plans left us with an uncomfortable feeling. If however, in future you are asked the question about when the next likely dates for industrial action are going to be, it would be wise to advise whoever is doing the asking that no dates, no matter how sacrosanct, have been ruled out.
These are tough times for cabin crew and there has been a lot of vindictive pain inflicted by BA on loyal union members. From here on in, we make no apology that we do not intend to take that pain lying down. Whatever it takes will have to be done.
See you on the 6th if you can make it. Regards Duncan
A QUICK UPDATE
Aug 3rd, 2010 by admin
This is is just a quick update because I told you the branch committee were meeting today, mentioning there might be a Branch meeting called next week and I guess a lot of you will be "tuning in" for some confirmation or not. For various reasons which include, school holidays, availability of venues, reps on leave and a host of reasons I don’t want to reveal to BA, it was decided to hold back any branch meeting until Monday 6th September at Kempton Park (11am). This does not rule out a ballot for industrial action taking place before that date. A fuller explanation with expanded details will be put out later in the week.The UNITE meeting with Walsh was short (but alas not sweet). He remains as depressingly stubborn and foolishly intransigent as ever, so scheduled talks next week are not expected to bring any dramatic improvements to the situation. Sadly this means the fight goes on and yesterday afternoon we were heartened when JGS Woodley and Simpson guaranteed the continuation of UNITE’s full and unequivocal support.
Like me I expect you are constantly asked by friends, family and people "down the pub" whether or not it is safe to book BA tickets on such and such date. Last year when we announced the 12 days of Xmas we attracted a lot of criticism from the media, and indeed a High Court judge, for ruining the travelling public’s plans over the holiday period. Notice was indeed short and the fact many could not make alternative plans left us with an uncomfortable feeling. If however, in future you are asked the question about when the next likely dates for industrial action are going to be, it would be wise to advise whoever is doing the asking that no dates, no matter how sacrosanct, have been ruled out.
These are tough times for cabin crew and there has been a lot of vindictive pain inflicted by BA on loyal union members. From here on in, we make no apology that we do not intend to take that pain lying down. Whatever it takes will have to be done.
See you on the 6th if you can make it. Regards Duncan
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I have been carrying out my own safety assessment of the window blinds, and can confirm that inflight with passengers sitting in the way of the crew and the said blind the risk to the crew member is rated as very minimal, in fact faliure to close the blinds in flight could have a negative effect on the duration of the rest period, this of course in turn could raise the risk to just minimal.
However the very same blinds on the ground without the "safety" of a passenger, could become a very dangerous item and everyone that dare touch them runs the risk of maybe straining a finger or worst delaying ones exit from the aircraft...
I therefore recomend that any crew who feel strongly that they should not touch these blinds on the ground and thus help to provide a comfortable environment for the next sector whilst reducing APU usage. Should take care while in the job center looking for a job that keeps them away from such dangers..
I hope this helps
However the very same blinds on the ground without the "safety" of a passenger, could become a very dangerous item and everyone that dare touch them runs the risk of maybe straining a finger or worst delaying ones exit from the aircraft...
I therefore recomend that any crew who feel strongly that they should not touch these blinds on the ground and thus help to provide a comfortable environment for the next sector whilst reducing APU usage. Should take care while in the job center looking for a job that keeps them away from such dangers..
I hope this helps
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Duncan, You're no longer employed by BA and you won't be getting your job back. Do the decent thing for the sake of your former colleagues and step down and let someone who isn't hell bent on revenge against Willie Walsh take over and rescue cabin crew from the mess you've dug them in.
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I can confirm that 36 years ago we pulled down the window blinds on B707s at warm destinations. And made sure all the air vents were open. Not with BA of course, just a charter airline...
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Hot Towels all over again...
This is a repeat of the Hot Towels, I am suprised BASSA haven't asked for an additional crew member whose sole responsibility is thew closure of window blinds 
Funny how crew are only too eager to close the window blinds when they want the pesky passengers to sleep during a day-light flight..... Maybe there is a Health & Safety risk (well a risk to the length of the bunk rest anyway).
Will someone please put BASSA down once and for all, enough is enough.
Funny how crew are only too eager to close the window blinds when they want the pesky passengers to sleep during a day-light flight..... Maybe there is a Health & Safety risk (well a risk to the length of the bunk rest anyway).
Will someone please put BASSA down once and for all, enough is enough.
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Will someone please put BASSA down once and for all, enough is enough.
You've alienated many Duncan, so go do the honourable thing. You know it makes sense!
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Isn't this akin to 'work to rule' and therefore could be described as unofficial industrial action? My guess is that this is going to remove a few undesirable crew from the company. BASSA might even get sued too?
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I get the impression that BASSA may have overstepped the mark with this one, I expect the issue may 'go away' shortly.
I know the question of certain of the BASSA leadership not being employed by BA anymore has been raised, can any BASSA member clarify if this is actually allowable?
As others have said, BASSA appears to be impotent now, nature abhors a vacuum, what will happen to fill it?
I know the question of certain of the BASSA leadership not being employed by BA anymore has been raised, can any BASSA member clarify if this is actually allowable?
As others have said, BASSA appears to be impotent now, nature abhors a vacuum, what will happen to fill it?
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The problem with Duncan Holley is that his arrogance far, far, far exceeds his intelligence. That is one of the reasons why BASSA are in the utter shambles they are today and also the reason why Holley won't step down. BASSA are in a total (and soon to be defeated) mess, a mess which he has played a major part in creating, yet he STILL thinks he is the man for the job!
Combine this personality trait with his personal vendetta and you have someone who will quite happily (further) shaft the career prospects of those cabin crew still employed in order to satisfy his displeasure at being made unemployed.
The majority of the militants that blindly follow him suffer from the same arrogance:intelligence ratio as he does. This is demonstrated by their inability to debate logically and factually on both this thread and others. As both an aviation professional and a BA Exec Club Gold, I sometimes worry that such people are actually given a position of responsibility on board an aircraft in the first place.
Combine this personality trait with his personal vendetta and you have someone who will quite happily (further) shaft the career prospects of those cabin crew still employed in order to satisfy his displeasure at being made unemployed.
The majority of the militants that blindly follow him suffer from the same arrogance:intelligence ratio as he does. This is demonstrated by their inability to debate logically and factually on both this thread and others. As both an aviation professional and a BA Exec Club Gold, I sometimes worry that such people are actually given a position of responsibility on board an aircraft in the first place.
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No one thinks for a moment, that perhaps it is Walsh who has the personal vendetta? Surely an appraisal of his performance so far, could also be described as "militant". His actions have all the hallmarks of union busting.
I can understand that there are a lot of people here who must be disappointed that BASSA have not rushed into a third ballot as quickly as they would like.
If intelligence is being questioned, then you must ask why Walsh allowed 800 cabin crew to take severance just before the first ballot. Not a very 'intelligent' thing to do in hindsight. To seek an injunction over the notification, or lack of it, of 11 spoiled ballot papers, was also not very intelligent when on appeal BA lost. In fact the whole position of BA seeking injunctions is questionable, as it has not solved anything but simply run the dispute on for longer than necessary. Hiding behind High Court judges is perhaps not the most intelligent thing to do,
You could also argue that under Walsh, BA's exposure to having too many Club seats which means that at the moment flightss are heavily overbooked in WT causing Club cabins to be full of upgrades, was also not a very intelligent forecast of future demographics.
Duncan Holley has said many times that the action to defeat imposition would be a "marathon". You need to be patient.
I can understand that there are a lot of people here who must be disappointed that BASSA have not rushed into a third ballot as quickly as they would like.
If intelligence is being questioned, then you must ask why Walsh allowed 800 cabin crew to take severance just before the first ballot. Not a very 'intelligent' thing to do in hindsight. To seek an injunction over the notification, or lack of it, of 11 spoiled ballot papers, was also not very intelligent when on appeal BA lost. In fact the whole position of BA seeking injunctions is questionable, as it has not solved anything but simply run the dispute on for longer than necessary. Hiding behind High Court judges is perhaps not the most intelligent thing to do,
You could also argue that under Walsh, BA's exposure to having too many Club seats which means that at the moment flightss are heavily overbooked in WT causing Club cabins to be full of upgrades, was also not a very intelligent forecast of future demographics.
Duncan Holley has said many times that the action to defeat imposition would be a "marathon". You need to be patient.
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It's not Willie Walsh that's pursuing a personal vendetta. Large PLCs just don't work like that. He has the full support of the Board and the shareholders. BASSA chose to make this personal. See the pathetic shots of cabin crew portraying Willie as Adolf Hitler during the strikes.
Seeking injunctions isn't questionable. Its fulfilling your duty to shareholders (the people who actually own the company) to minimise financial damage to the company. BA's lawyers have a duty of care to the company to highlight any technical failures in the ballot and BA managament have a fudiciary duty to pursue legal action if they are aware of technical failures in the ballot. The fact that 2 out 4 judges were minded to grant an injunction against the 2nd ballot says that it was not a frivolous case.
You're right that if the "12 days of Christmas" strike had gone ahead, this dispute would be over now. It certainly would be. If you thought BASSA was personna non grata now, consider what the response of the public, the media and staff would be had that strike gone ahead. It would be so strong, the company could have done whatever was necessary to bring the dispute to a head (and in its favour) without any fear of PR backlash. It was a blessing in disguise for all crew that the strike did not happen.
As for your comment about too many Club seats at the expense of WT, I thought BASSA wanted to "keep BA premium"?
Seeking injunctions isn't questionable. Its fulfilling your duty to shareholders (the people who actually own the company) to minimise financial damage to the company. BA's lawyers have a duty of care to the company to highlight any technical failures in the ballot and BA managament have a fudiciary duty to pursue legal action if they are aware of technical failures in the ballot. The fact that 2 out 4 judges were minded to grant an injunction against the 2nd ballot says that it was not a frivolous case.
You're right that if the "12 days of Christmas" strike had gone ahead, this dispute would be over now. It certainly would be. If you thought BASSA was personna non grata now, consider what the response of the public, the media and staff would be had that strike gone ahead. It would be so strong, the company could have done whatever was necessary to bring the dispute to a head (and in its favour) without any fear of PR backlash. It was a blessing in disguise for all crew that the strike did not happen.
As for your comment about too many Club seats at the expense of WT, I thought BASSA wanted to "keep BA premium"?
Last edited by LD12986; 3rd Aug 2010 at 21:15.
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Hector Vector wrote:
On the contrary, it was the intelligent thing to do. BA needed permanent cost savings and cabin crew wanted to go. So, VR was offered, 1,003 volunteered and were allowed to go. It was a win-win. Furthermore, those who left would have made no difference to the ballot result.
Actually, two of the four judges, including the Master of the Rolls, said that the ballot was invalid. I suppose you'd call them not intelligent.
Also, it would be intelligent of you to mention that BA gained the injunction last December to halt the strike. When Unite finally went on strike three months later, BA was ready. Customers benefited from the much higher proportion of flights which operated in March compared to what would have been in December. That would also have been an intelligent thing to mention.
If intelligence is being questioned, then you must ask why Walsh allowed 800 cabin crew to take severance just before the first ballot. Not a very 'intelligent' thing to do in hindsight.
To seek an injunction over the notification, or lack of it, of 11 spoiled ballot papers, was also not very intelligent when on appeal BA lost.
Also, it would be intelligent of you to mention that BA gained the injunction last December to halt the strike. When Unite finally went on strike three months later, BA was ready. Customers benefited from the much higher proportion of flights which operated in March compared to what would have been in December. That would also have been an intelligent thing to mention.
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HV - a few queries..
The sound of your posts suggests that you are a pilot. Now I have a lot of time for anyone who has the guts and ability to go through CPL training, I reckon you don't get to sit up the pointy end if you are lacking in brain cells, so I'm frankly puzzled by your posts.
If you are a pilot, you will know the degree of scrutiny that aviation is under from the green movements around the world. Now whatever your own political affiliation may be I would hope that you would agree that any efforts made to reduce airline's carbon footprint has to be something to be applauded. OK so they get a cost saving as well from reduced engine burn - a carrot is always useful. The tenor of your comments suggest that the simple expedient of closing window blinds as crew walk up the aisle to exit the aircraft is unreasonable and impinges on their time. Now I really don't want to have to get into the sad exercise of counting the number of windows on a 744 and then calculating how many blinds per crew member that represents. Suffice to say, given that the manning level for a 744 these days is 14 crew, I'd be surprised if that meant each crew member needed to close ten blinds. Must take all of 90 seconds to do that. Is that really unreasonable ??
Turning to your comments about Willie Walsh making 'breaking the union' a personal vendetta. I've seen no evidence to suggest that BA have any desire to break Unite. In fact there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Unite was one the key unions involved in agreeing the pensions deal. Do you not find it slightly strange that whilst other parts of Unite were balloted on this, cabin crew somehow got overlooked. The reality is that a lot of the Unite branches work very well with BA, it's just BASSA who seem to want to be awkward. Even then, because of the collective bargaining agreements, BA actually need a group who will represent crew in discussions on pay and working conditions. This could still be BASSA. So the notion that the CEO wishes to break BASSA is daft. Now it may be that the people in BASSA who purport to represent the cabin crew are not actually doing a particularly good job and need changing.
The appeal regarding the spolied ballot papers was justified. The law lays down a process to be observed. Unite failed to adhere to the process. Given the potential impact on revenue, BA was duty bound to its shareholders to seek legal judgement on the matter. So the company lost on appeal. It did at least reduce the number of strike days by five.
Others have made more than adequate comment on the business class :economy ratios.
Finally, I note your comment
I do trust he repeated this frequently to all those commuting cabin crew who lost their staff travel from going on strike. Ah, but then Duncan also said that staff travel would be returned in 5 minutes. How do you square that ? If BASSA are out to make this a marathon, will they also hold elections to the branch committee during it ? Just that I'm hearing that the branch committte is shrinking in numbers of BA employed folk. Is it democratic to have a group of people who have nothing to do with the airline telling the membership who are still employed as cabin crew what to do ?
If you are a pilot, you will know the degree of scrutiny that aviation is under from the green movements around the world. Now whatever your own political affiliation may be I would hope that you would agree that any efforts made to reduce airline's carbon footprint has to be something to be applauded. OK so they get a cost saving as well from reduced engine burn - a carrot is always useful. The tenor of your comments suggest that the simple expedient of closing window blinds as crew walk up the aisle to exit the aircraft is unreasonable and impinges on their time. Now I really don't want to have to get into the sad exercise of counting the number of windows on a 744 and then calculating how many blinds per crew member that represents. Suffice to say, given that the manning level for a 744 these days is 14 crew, I'd be surprised if that meant each crew member needed to close ten blinds. Must take all of 90 seconds to do that. Is that really unreasonable ??
Turning to your comments about Willie Walsh making 'breaking the union' a personal vendetta. I've seen no evidence to suggest that BA have any desire to break Unite. In fact there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Unite was one the key unions involved in agreeing the pensions deal. Do you not find it slightly strange that whilst other parts of Unite were balloted on this, cabin crew somehow got overlooked. The reality is that a lot of the Unite branches work very well with BA, it's just BASSA who seem to want to be awkward. Even then, because of the collective bargaining agreements, BA actually need a group who will represent crew in discussions on pay and working conditions. This could still be BASSA. So the notion that the CEO wishes to break BASSA is daft. Now it may be that the people in BASSA who purport to represent the cabin crew are not actually doing a particularly good job and need changing.
The appeal regarding the spolied ballot papers was justified. The law lays down a process to be observed. Unite failed to adhere to the process. Given the potential impact on revenue, BA was duty bound to its shareholders to seek legal judgement on the matter. So the company lost on appeal. It did at least reduce the number of strike days by five.
Others have made more than adequate comment on the business class :economy ratios.
Finally, I note your comment
Duncan Holley has said many times that the action to defeat imposition would be a "marathon". You need to be patient.
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Branch meeting at Kempton
How is this to be held I wonder?
Duncan et al on the top table shouting "no quarter given unless disciplinaries are all thrown out and those sacked are reinstated"?
"Ah", shout the crowd of evenly-represented cross-section of the reducing BASSA membership, "and full ST reinstated"!
"Oh yes, that also", remembers Duncan.
"All those agreeing put your hands in the air"!
Landslide show of hands! Not many people there though....
Maybe they didn't get notice of the meeting through the post like the 4000 missed votes in the recent ballott? You do keep the membership of BASSA updated on its homepage Duncan?
Oh well, I'm sure someone from Unite, accompanied by the SWP will "twitter" the truth out to the world....
I feel sorry for many of the BASSA membership. You need to be better represented in my opinion
Duncan et al on the top table shouting "no quarter given unless disciplinaries are all thrown out and those sacked are reinstated"?
"Ah", shout the crowd of evenly-represented cross-section of the reducing BASSA membership, "and full ST reinstated"!
"Oh yes, that also", remembers Duncan.
"All those agreeing put your hands in the air"!
Landslide show of hands! Not many people there though....
Maybe they didn't get notice of the meeting through the post like the 4000 missed votes in the recent ballott? You do keep the membership of BASSA updated on its homepage Duncan?
Oh well, I'm sure someone from Unite, accompanied by the SWP will "twitter" the truth out to the world....
I feel sorry for many of the BASSA membership. You need to be better represented in my opinion
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Colonel White wrote,
He's not a pilot, he's a Walter Mitty Character who writes in a very similar style to Puff in Boots, Fume Event, Duggie Fashion and others . A few posts ago he wrote,
I read that as being a four engined aeroplane so either he has a private BAe 146 or a Boeing 747 or 707 (perhaps he's John Travolta?) or he's a fantascist.
The sound of your [Hector Vector] posts suggests that you are a pilot. Now I have a lot of time for anyone who has the guts and ability to go through CPL training, I reckon you don't get to sit up the pointy end if you are lacking in brain cells, so I'm frankly puzzled by your posts.
. A few posts ago he wrote,
TC I own my own aeroplane, so I do not need Staff Travel. It has two engines left and right, not one or two.
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an observation ...
BASSA WROTE :_
it was decided to hold back any branch meeting until Monday 6th September at Kempton Park (11am). This does not rule out a ballot for industrial action taking place before that date. A fuller explanation with expanded details will be put out later in the week.
So, what a 'clever' BASSA ... if you hold back the start of voting until after this meeting on 6th Sept, it takes 3/4 weeks for a ballot ... he presto, the next 90 days can then last over the Christmas/New Year period, hitting forward bookings at the very least.
I wonder if BA will have a rather different Christmas present for the strikers if this is the case - with the start of Mixed fleet recruit starting in September, future strikes are not going to be as bad anyway. I heard yesterday that there were 14 applicants for each Mixed fleet CSM role ....
it was decided to hold back any branch meeting until Monday 6th September at Kempton Park (11am). This does not rule out a ballot for industrial action taking place before that date. A fuller explanation with expanded details will be put out later in the week.
So, what a 'clever' BASSA ... if you hold back the start of voting until after this meeting on 6th Sept, it takes 3/4 weeks for a ballot ... he presto, the next 90 days can then last over the Christmas/New Year period, hitting forward bookings at the very least.
I wonder if BA will have a rather different Christmas present for the strikers if this is the case - with the start of Mixed fleet recruit starting in September, future strikes are not going to be as bad anyway. I heard yesterday that there were 14 applicants for each Mixed fleet CSM role ....
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No one thinks for a moment, that perhaps it is Walsh who has the personal vendetta? Surely an appraisal of his performance so far, could also be described as "militant". His actions have all the hallmarks of union busting.
Why should Willie Walsh have a vendetta? No one from BASSA has yet to clear up that simple question. They all claim that the CC are being told to make disproportionate cuts whilst blindly ignoring the fact that the CC have made no changes to their fundamental T's & C's since privatisation.
If an external consultation company had been called in to look at BA and decide where cuts lay do you think they would have made a different choice? All the other departments have taken their cuts, rationalised their operation and increased their productivity. All the other departments are acutely aware that this is not the last time challenges will come and thus are preparing for the future by planning and discussing the huge changes that could possibly lie ahead.
BASSA digs its heels into the same sand they have their heads stuck in and seeks to re-instate the past.
Not that the whole blame lies with BASSA. In the past they were cosseted by the IFcE management and then further by previous CEO's. They have been pampered and led to believe that they ARE BA and the best in the world by a weak management of the past who couldn't cope with confrontation.
Now the balance must be addressed BASSA can't cope with it and claims a 'personal vendetta'. Rubbish, what is happening is business and in business there is little emotion only targets. BASSA are cureently wearing a very, very big target.
Change of CEO? Won't make a jot of difference as the business plan is already set and in motion. Keith Williams is just as likely, if not more likely, than Willie Walsh to push it through.
Good luck with BFC in the winter boys and girls, it's likely to be a cold and long one.
P.S. HV claims an Embraer 190 as his 'jet of choice', didn't BA Connect fly those? No bad blood there is there?
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What do you expect!!.. now Willie Walsh has his new business plan in action offering Cabin Crew salaries of around £16k before tax, and obviously wanting nineteen year olds who live at home and dont have bills, with shiny bright smiles and a yes sir how high sir attitude - it seems that Bassa should have something to worry about.
Not that I've ever endorsed their insular self serving motives... I think the whole of B.A. has a lot to worry about and this New Fleet changes everything.
Should have done a deal from the off Bassa... ofcourse Willie wants you gone - you both underestimated each other though - or do I really need to point that out.
Not that I've ever endorsed their insular self serving motives... I think the whole of B.A. has a lot to worry about and this New Fleet changes everything.
Should have done a deal from the off Bassa... ofcourse Willie wants you gone - you both underestimated each other though - or do I really need to point that out.
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I'd take shiny bright smiles and a how high attitude any day over the grumpy old sour won't hand out a hot towel or pull down the blinds attitudes of the BASSAmentalists. And I'm sure our paying customers would agree!