British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: LAM/BIG/BNN hold
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
who is to say that behind closed doors, mass recruitment/training is not going on already .... it must be - 100% of flights can be operated at any future strikes, it certainly is the beginning of the end
BACKING BA and our customers
BACKING BA and our customers
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More contradictions from the BASSA crowd...
From Duncan's Summary of Today:
The commuters who use staff travel are the ones that have been hardest hit; it would have been understandable if many had chosen the easy option and gone to work, but the fact that you haven't has really filled me with pride and humility. I really do salute you - and next time you see me at Bedfont - mine is a San Mig!!!!
The commuters who use staff travel are the ones that have been hardest hit; it would have been understandable if many had chosen the easy option and gone to work, but the fact that you haven't has really filled me with pride and humility. I really do salute you - and next time you see me at Bedfont - mine is a San Mig!!!!
Maybe when those people who followed your suicidal route because you told them only to read your side of the story have lost their jobs (and I genuinely hope not) you could organise a whip-round so they could buy you a nice Mont Blanc pen for when you're at your fancy union meetings sipping Latte with TW and DS et al.
I hope you're waiving their monthly union subs this month?
You have no moral compass Holley!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some within BASSA might say that shortsightedness and a stubborn unwillingness to face facts are admirable trends.
I do find it odd though that only one department within the whole of BA has a problem with Willie Walsh. That department is the only one that hasn't modified its working practices to reflect the modern working environment. That department has clung on to the initial contract deal through beligerence and the constant, year on year, threat of IA.
Then that department wonder why they seem to feel they have been 'singled out','picked on','bullied and harrassed' etc.
Have a look at the rest of BA. The rest of the company who are protecting their jobs after accepting negotiated changes. The rest of the company who have had enough of the ways of BASSA.
The investors don't want BASSA. The rest of the workforce don't want BASSA. The simple fact that the company can train volunteers to replace those BASSA militants or those too scared/stupid to wake up and smell the coffee, just shows you how easily replaceable you are.
Finally, for God's sake will someone teach the proles in the BASSA heirarchy how to count.
p.s. Juan/DH Be careful how you treat any member of the press. In the cold light of day they play their 'love to hate you' games between them. Behind the scenes however there is a vast amount of collaboration. Sending the Daily Mail photographer off with a 'flea in his ear' and a Foxtrot Oscar just sums up the immaturity of your organisation and will reflect negatively in the press. But then you know that from your media briefing don't you.
I do find it odd though that only one department within the whole of BA has a problem with Willie Walsh. That department is the only one that hasn't modified its working practices to reflect the modern working environment. That department has clung on to the initial contract deal through beligerence and the constant, year on year, threat of IA.
Then that department wonder why they seem to feel they have been 'singled out','picked on','bullied and harrassed' etc.
Have a look at the rest of BA. The rest of the company who are protecting their jobs after accepting negotiated changes. The rest of the company who have had enough of the ways of BASSA.
The investors don't want BASSA. The rest of the workforce don't want BASSA. The simple fact that the company can train volunteers to replace those BASSA militants or those too scared/stupid to wake up and smell the coffee, just shows you how easily replaceable you are.
Finally, for God's sake will someone teach the proles in the BASSA heirarchy how to count.
p.s. Juan/DH Be careful how you treat any member of the press. In the cold light of day they play their 'love to hate you' games between them. Behind the scenes however there is a vast amount of collaboration. Sending the Daily Mail photographer off with a 'flea in his ear' and a Foxtrot Oscar just sums up the immaturity of your organisation and will reflect negatively in the press. But then you know that from your media briefing don't you.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Definition of current airline staff please
I currently work for British Airways but not as flight or cabin crew - so am I allowed to post to the 'British Aiways vs. BASSA' thread ?
It got posted - but perhaps it'll be removed !
It got posted - but perhaps it'll be removed !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Age: 46
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
***AN UPDATE FROM WILLIES FORUM TODAY AT WATERSIDE***
A friend of mine that was there has told me that a Question was asked yet again about "staff travel"
Willie ONCE AGAIN reaffirmed that he WILL NOT be offering any gesture on the staff travel and HE WILL NOT be going back on his word
HOW FANTASITIC- BRAVO! PLEASE WILLIE DO NOT GO BACK ON YOUR WORD< you have thousands that support your decisions
ALSO, there WILL be serious consequences???
As I say I was not there, however can someone confirm these comments
many thanks
A friend of mine that was there has told me that a Question was asked yet again about "staff travel"
Willie ONCE AGAIN reaffirmed that he WILL NOT be offering any gesture on the staff travel and HE WILL NOT be going back on his word
HOW FANTASITIC- BRAVO! PLEASE WILLIE DO NOT GO BACK ON YOUR WORD< you have thousands that support your decisions
ALSO, there WILL be serious consequences???
As I say I was not there, however can someone confirm these comments
many thanks
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's such a shame Juan isn't in BASSA, otherwise he could have read this:
a message to the 12, yes 12, who went in for the 2nd half of our back 2 back this morn to ***. i know most of you went in hoping to be sent home and you got your wish. but you still went in, counted towards WW figures and therefore are strike breakers. i am sorry i wasted my breath on you all in boston. please do not ask me for any favours in the future. well done *********...we were strong !
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Age: 49
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA/unite talks
It does not seem to be on here, so thought I would post it:
That talks between BA and UNITE that were held through ACAS have been adjourned to a later date. On ESS news it does not say when though.
Quite interesting, wonder what the next move will be?
That talks between BA and UNITE that were held through ACAS have been adjourned to a later date. On ESS news it does not say when though.
Quite interesting, wonder what the next move will be?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
arrived into terminal 5 this afternoon.....most stands were empty,usually occupied by a mixture of long and shorthaul aircraft.immigration was deserted and only 1 flight had luggage on the reclaim belt.the whole situation was far removed from a normal days operation.how long can this senario continue ??
Last edited by bermudatriangle; 27th May 2010 at 00:09. Reason: duplication of narrative
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bermudatriangle,
I have operated every day of the strike so far. As previously posted my 767 flight on Monday left without an empty seat.
I operated this evening again on an A321 and again my flight was packed, so is my return flight back tomorrow. T5 was also vey busy when we arrived at our departure gate.
Please don't be disheartened, it won't be for long now. Another fortnight and it will all be over. In the meantime we are all doing our very best, and I know every department in BA is working way beyond and above their normal hours.
I'm BA cabin crew who is proud to cross the picket line.
I have operated every day of the strike so far. As previously posted my 767 flight on Monday left without an empty seat.
I operated this evening again on an A321 and again my flight was packed, so is my return flight back tomorrow. T5 was also vey busy when we arrived at our departure gate.
Please don't be disheartened, it won't be for long now. Another fortnight and it will all be over. In the meantime we are all doing our very best, and I know every department in BA is working way beyond and above their normal hours.
I'm BA cabin crew who is proud to cross the picket line.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm so upset with all the self important rubbish that has been posted on this site. This is people's livelihoods you are talking about and to be honest none of you care about that, it's all about YOU and your opinion. Please look at the bigger picture. Don't you see that what they have to give up is a lot to ask of anyone, and if the shoe was on the other foot you would be out theer fighting your cause. Let me remind you of the Openskies situation that happened not so long ago. What's to say that the Cirrus rumour is not something you should be worried about?
I have had enough, this is my life you are playing God with and I can't take it anymore. I'm at the end of my rope with all this. I'm not even sure who I can talk to, confide in, or even believe these days. I look at everything that has happened over the last couple of years and I CANNOT SEE A WAY OUT.
I've never felt so low in my life and after giving so much to a company I have loved and been proud to work for, for so long I don't know where to go now.
I'm in a situation where I could loose everything I have worked for, for so long and yes I CAN HEAR YOU ALL SAY, That's my choice, but hey if this was you wouldn't you do the same thing and stand up for what you believe in.
I've give so much to this Company for the last 16 years and to be honest I don't think I'm over paid and I really have to despute the fact that I have under achieve. I'm full time and if you really want to know my earnings well it's just over £27,000. Now please look at yourselves and think how would you live on that?
These are hard times and everybody I know realises that but we are not fighting for anything more, just the right to keep what we have. I don't want to give up my flat and my life that I have worked so hard to keep just because there are people out there who are willing to do my job for a mere £11,000 and £2.40 ph. If they found pilots willing to do the same then you'll end up in the same boat.
This is a serious issure and the crew involved are nothing like the people you are talking about. They have fed and watered you for years.They have sat and shared their company with you and enjoyed your input. They have the same goal as you, which is to see the Company succeed. They are just not willing to do this at their expense.
Please stop all this bashing of your colleagues, they are afterall the eyes and ears of your flight, you need to be able to trust them and this is not helping.
I really believe that all you have to say is just helping to prolong the dispute. Let's sit back and look at the facts and think, What if this was me? What would i do? How would I react? What if the company wins, will they come after me next, after all I am the best paid pilot in the World!!!!!!!!!! Familiar???????
I'm a human being who has done everything to make sure my passengers I have on my flights get off and feel special. I give them everything I have and even though the product is not up to what is was I have managed to make up for that by just being me. I joined this company 16 years ago as a career choice and I really believed that I made a good choice, but now that is not enough. I have my mortgage based on my present earnings, not extravagant, but now that is too much, Where do we stop.
Please look at how you would deal with this...... How would you cope......... What if someone decided that you were overpaid and under achieving? .......... I'm alone in all this an I have no where to go. I can't see a way out........ I can't believe that school yard tactics are ruining my life. I want to do what I do really well, and I'll only give it up when I decide, not you or our management. What would you do if they said that you were to be replaced by cheaper younger staff. How would you feel?
Now saying all that, Look deep inside you, before you reply, I'm not interested in getting into a debate, My future is at stake here and I haven't even committed a crime.
Have some compassion and think about what you are saying because if this was you, I would. Just think about how Mr Walsh's success would affect you. Imagine how you would cope. I know there are no VCC out there who can replace yiou but there are plenty unemployed and well unless you are unique, no one is safe.
We just happen to be the largest group and well they will never stop there, we are just a way forward. A win for Mr Walsh is a way to prove that no one is safe.
I am sorry to put all this in writing, but I have just about had enough and if I'm really honest, I don't want to give up something I'm really good at and I'm really proud of. I want a future and I want to fall in love with my Company again. I want us all to live in harmony again. I don't want to fear a destroyed CRM situation which could end up costing lives.
Please people think about what you have to say and look at the facts. The future of your crew is at stake and if they manange to break us then it is only a matter of time before they visit you.
I have had enough, this is my life you are playing God with and I can't take it anymore. I'm at the end of my rope with all this. I'm not even sure who I can talk to, confide in, or even believe these days. I look at everything that has happened over the last couple of years and I CANNOT SEE A WAY OUT.
I've never felt so low in my life and after giving so much to a company I have loved and been proud to work for, for so long I don't know where to go now.
I'm in a situation where I could loose everything I have worked for, for so long and yes I CAN HEAR YOU ALL SAY, That's my choice, but hey if this was you wouldn't you do the same thing and stand up for what you believe in.
I've give so much to this Company for the last 16 years and to be honest I don't think I'm over paid and I really have to despute the fact that I have under achieve. I'm full time and if you really want to know my earnings well it's just over £27,000. Now please look at yourselves and think how would you live on that?
These are hard times and everybody I know realises that but we are not fighting for anything more, just the right to keep what we have. I don't want to give up my flat and my life that I have worked so hard to keep just because there are people out there who are willing to do my job for a mere £11,000 and £2.40 ph. If they found pilots willing to do the same then you'll end up in the same boat.
This is a serious issure and the crew involved are nothing like the people you are talking about. They have fed and watered you for years.They have sat and shared their company with you and enjoyed your input. They have the same goal as you, which is to see the Company succeed. They are just not willing to do this at their expense.
Please stop all this bashing of your colleagues, they are afterall the eyes and ears of your flight, you need to be able to trust them and this is not helping.
I really believe that all you have to say is just helping to prolong the dispute. Let's sit back and look at the facts and think, What if this was me? What would i do? How would I react? What if the company wins, will they come after me next, after all I am the best paid pilot in the World!!!!!!!!!! Familiar???????
I'm a human being who has done everything to make sure my passengers I have on my flights get off and feel special. I give them everything I have and even though the product is not up to what is was I have managed to make up for that by just being me. I joined this company 16 years ago as a career choice and I really believed that I made a good choice, but now that is not enough. I have my mortgage based on my present earnings, not extravagant, but now that is too much, Where do we stop.
Please look at how you would deal with this...... How would you cope......... What if someone decided that you were overpaid and under achieving? .......... I'm alone in all this an I have no where to go. I can't see a way out........ I can't believe that school yard tactics are ruining my life. I want to do what I do really well, and I'll only give it up when I decide, not you or our management. What would you do if they said that you were to be replaced by cheaper younger staff. How would you feel?
Now saying all that, Look deep inside you, before you reply, I'm not interested in getting into a debate, My future is at stake here and I haven't even committed a crime.
Have some compassion and think about what you are saying because if this was you, I would. Just think about how Mr Walsh's success would affect you. Imagine how you would cope. I know there are no VCC out there who can replace yiou but there are plenty unemployed and well unless you are unique, no one is safe.
We just happen to be the largest group and well they will never stop there, we are just a way forward. A win for Mr Walsh is a way to prove that no one is safe.
I am sorry to put all this in writing, but I have just about had enough and if I'm really honest, I don't want to give up something I'm really good at and I'm really proud of. I want a future and I want to fall in love with my Company again. I want us all to live in harmony again. I don't want to fear a destroyed CRM situation which could end up costing lives.
Please people think about what you have to say and look at the facts. The future of your crew is at stake and if they manange to break us then it is only a matter of time before they visit you.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Colleague Forum 26 May 2010 with Willie Walsh
There was a forum yesterday on the 2009/10 results presented by Keith Williams with Willie Walsh giving an update on the cabin crew dispute.
Some of Keith's presentation was about cabin crew productivity and cost, 1998 (the last time there was a cabin crew strike) compared with 2010.
Cabin crew manpower as a percentage of total manpower:
1998 26.0%
2010 31.3%
Cabin crew employment cost as a percentage of total employment cost:
1998: 20%
2010: 25%
Unit costs per flying hour:
Fleet 1997 2009 increase
WW 50.8 63.2 24.3%
EF 52.7 69.4 31.8%
LGW n/a 38.0
Willie Walsh then gave his update on the cabin crew dispute. He began by saying that he had to go to a secret meeting place afterwards.
He said that the operation was going well and he acknowledged the efforts of volunteers.
He said that 836 (or 75% of rostered cabin crew) had reported for work that day. As more crew were available than planned, more flights would be reinstated as follows (figures in brackets are the plans before the strike).
LH - over 70% (up from 60%)
SH - over 55% (up from 50%)
So, 75% of pax would fly (up from 70%).
He said that last Sunday he had agreed to ACAS talks at 1600 but Unite did not attend. Furthermore, Tony Woodley had cast doubt on the agreement which he thought had been settled, so he believed that Woodley was not in charge of the situation. A little later, he said that BASSA controls Woodley.
In the previous talks, he asked whether BASSA would accept the Way Forward Agreement and Derek Simpson said yes (for the first time).
He reiterated that it was important to reduce costs, but BASSA did not offer this. There was no point in taking industrial action, he won't change his mind.
He was asked about further cost reductions. On cabin crew, cost reductions would be achieved by existing cost savings plus New Fleet. He said that he didn't see much scope in further cost reductions as you can only reduce the business by so much. Indeed, he was looking to grow the business by, for instance, bringing four 747s back from storage.
On staff travel, he said that he had gone as far he could, so he did not accept Woodley's offer to return to the negotiation table in return for reinstating staff travel.
On legal matters, he said that BA will not be appealing the overturn of the injuction. However, BA has warned Unite that it is planning for a full hearing on the legality of the strike.
On being asked what representation cabin crew could get if they didn't want BASSA, he said that he was looking at options and would make a decision in the very near future.
Some of Keith's presentation was about cabin crew productivity and cost, 1998 (the last time there was a cabin crew strike) compared with 2010.
Cabin crew manpower as a percentage of total manpower:
1998 26.0%
2010 31.3%
Cabin crew employment cost as a percentage of total employment cost:
1998: 20%
2010: 25%
Unit costs per flying hour:
Fleet 1997 2009 increase
WW 50.8 63.2 24.3%
EF 52.7 69.4 31.8%
LGW n/a 38.0
Willie Walsh then gave his update on the cabin crew dispute. He began by saying that he had to go to a secret meeting place afterwards.
He said that the operation was going well and he acknowledged the efforts of volunteers.
He said that 836 (or 75% of rostered cabin crew) had reported for work that day. As more crew were available than planned, more flights would be reinstated as follows (figures in brackets are the plans before the strike).
LH - over 70% (up from 60%)
SH - over 55% (up from 50%)
So, 75% of pax would fly (up from 70%).
He said that last Sunday he had agreed to ACAS talks at 1600 but Unite did not attend. Furthermore, Tony Woodley had cast doubt on the agreement which he thought had been settled, so he believed that Woodley was not in charge of the situation. A little later, he said that BASSA controls Woodley.
In the previous talks, he asked whether BASSA would accept the Way Forward Agreement and Derek Simpson said yes (for the first time).
He reiterated that it was important to reduce costs, but BASSA did not offer this. There was no point in taking industrial action, he won't change his mind.
He was asked about further cost reductions. On cabin crew, cost reductions would be achieved by existing cost savings plus New Fleet. He said that he didn't see much scope in further cost reductions as you can only reduce the business by so much. Indeed, he was looking to grow the business by, for instance, bringing four 747s back from storage.
On staff travel, he said that he had gone as far he could, so he did not accept Woodley's offer to return to the negotiation table in return for reinstating staff travel.
On legal matters, he said that BA will not be appealing the overturn of the injuction. However, BA has warned Unite that it is planning for a full hearing on the legality of the strike.
On being asked what representation cabin crew could get if they didn't want BASSA, he said that he was looking at options and would make a decision in the very near future.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Perry Oaks Sewage Works
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duncan this, P45 that, Woodley this, Derek that etc etc..
What has happened to Lizanne? The person ultimately responsible for all this bollocks..
Has she turned up at BFC yet, or is she not a fan of samosas?
Or is she too busy having her kitchen fitted?
What has happened to Lizanne? The person ultimately responsible for all this bollocks..
Has she turned up at BFC yet, or is she not a fan of samosas?
Or is she too busy having her kitchen fitted?
Confused no longer
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bath Road
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Miss Malone has been off sick a long time - now suspended.
She has done SEP a couple of times but never returned to flying duties.
I wish she would do the whole company a huge favour and resign - BA does not need these kind people - take the rest of the BASSA brigade with you as you walk out the door.
As for Duncan Holley - I hope you never get anywhere near a BA uniform again.
Blood sucking selfish individuals.
Willie Walsh is right about 75% of rostered crew reporting for duty - I work in Ops and have seen the numbers myself.
She has done SEP a couple of times but never returned to flying duties.
I wish she would do the whole company a huge favour and resign - BA does not need these kind people - take the rest of the BASSA brigade with you as you walk out the door.
As for Duncan Holley - I hope you never get anywhere near a BA uniform again.
Blood sucking selfish individuals.
Willie Walsh is right about 75% of rostered crew reporting for duty - I work in Ops and have seen the numbers myself.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of Keith's presentation was about cabin crew productivity and cost, 1998 (the last time there was a cabin crew strike) compared with 2010.
Cabin crew manpower as a percentage of total manpower:
1998 26.0%
2010 31.3%
Cabin crew employment cost as a percentage of total employment cost:
1998: 20%
2010: 25%
Cabin crew manpower as a percentage of total manpower:
1998 26.0%
2010 31.3%
Cabin crew employment cost as a percentage of total employment cost:
1998: 20%
2010: 25%
Given that job cuts in recent years have disproportionately affected back office staff, hasn't every customer-facing departments %age of the workforce increased?