British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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An appeal to Miss M
MissM:
I know you feel very passionately about protecting crews long term career prospects and you have stated this on numerous occasions and via numerous channels. Your consistency, determination and ethics to your membership should be applauded.
But, back in 2005 was there anything in any of our contracts that said we had a job for life? No. How was the situation in 2000, 1995, 1990.... 1970? No again. There might have been more of an assumption that jobs were for life but there was never any explicit guarantees and it's only in retrospect with rose tinted spectacles that we believe that something has been lost.
There is a wonderful line in the front of a Lonely Planet guide book to caveat their reviews which I think is a good maxim for life "Good restaurants go bad and bad restaurants go out of business". If we'ew going to keep our jobs in this brave new world, we have to be doing it better than our competition and that requires us all to be more flexible. Your department is lucky in that the deal offered to you involves productivity improvements but keeps your earnings approximately unchanged. There are many other departments who would love such opportunities.
So whilst I applaud your motives and your morals, please don't become a martyr for a cause which never existed. We're better off with you than without you.
I know you feel very passionately about protecting crews long term career prospects and you have stated this on numerous occasions and via numerous channels. Your consistency, determination and ethics to your membership should be applauded.
But, back in 2005 was there anything in any of our contracts that said we had a job for life? No. How was the situation in 2000, 1995, 1990.... 1970? No again. There might have been more of an assumption that jobs were for life but there was never any explicit guarantees and it's only in retrospect with rose tinted spectacles that we believe that something has been lost.
There is a wonderful line in the front of a Lonely Planet guide book to caveat their reviews which I think is a good maxim for life "Good restaurants go bad and bad restaurants go out of business". If we'ew going to keep our jobs in this brave new world, we have to be doing it better than our competition and that requires us all to be more flexible. Your department is lucky in that the deal offered to you involves productivity improvements but keeps your earnings approximately unchanged. There are many other departments who would love such opportunities.
So whilst I applaud your motives and your morals, please don't become a martyr for a cause which never existed. We're better off with you than without you.
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Stark Alternatives
MissM has advised us:
This opinion in itself is perfectly acceptable, and if BASSA members support MissM's philosophy, so be it.
However, the quoted sentence has a converse: Ignore this proposal and you may see yourself out of employment in a few weeks.
If and when the proposal is put to the membership - and I do hope it will be by a secret postal ballot, preferably supervised by the Electoral Reform Society to ensure thast everything is above board - we will see.
Accept this proposal and you will see yourself out of employment in a few years.
However, the quoted sentence has a converse: Ignore this proposal and you may see yourself out of employment in a few weeks.
If and when the proposal is put to the membership - and I do hope it will be by a secret postal ballot, preferably supervised by the Electoral Reform Society to ensure thast everything is above board - we will see.
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As I have pointed out previously, I don't always agree with BASSA and their actions. Hot towels were done in the heat of the moment and probably out of boredom.
And this is the union so resolutely (and so blindly) supported by striking British Airways cabin crew.
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The schedule is now published for 30th May - 4th June.
There's no commentary yet on what proportion of flights are operating but on longhaul it looks similar to the first strike period. There might be a small increase, but it's no more than that at first glance.
Haven't had a look at shorthaul although that's not the priority anyway.
There's no commentary yet on what proportion of flights are operating but on longhaul it looks similar to the first strike period. There might be a small increase, but it's no more than that at first glance.
Haven't had a look at shorthaul although that's not the priority anyway.
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Moderator Tightslot posts :
Reminder - In order to post on this thread, you must be currently serving airline staff. Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
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What about external BA shareholders ?
Aren't they the most important 'currently-serving airline staff' of all ?
Because, without them, there simply ain't an airline.
Perhaps their views should be encouraged on this Airline Staff thread. It would be interesting to see whether they support WW and his business-focused activities on behalf of BA shareholders, or unions which claim to be protecting their interests.
Wilbur Gunn.
BA Shareholder since 1997.
Reminder - In order to post on this thread, you must be currently serving airline staff. Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
* * * * * * * * * *
What about external BA shareholders ?
Aren't they the most important 'currently-serving airline staff' of all ?
Because, without them, there simply ain't an airline.
Perhaps their views should be encouraged on this Airline Staff thread. It would be interesting to see whether they support WW and his business-focused activities on behalf of BA shareholders, or unions which claim to be protecting their interests.
Wilbur Gunn.
BA Shareholder since 1997.
Reading the feedback on the strike-day on board atmosphere and passenger reaction, and more locally, Miss M's appalling approach above to service delivery (now deleted I see, but the gist was that she'd only given hot towels to WTP pax "out of boredom"') on behalf of a union which claimed to be protecting the BA brand, one wonders whether the effort should be on keeping the angry brigade away from the customers after this is all over, rather than the efforts being directed towards forcing them kicking & screaming back into the operation. A divided and sullen workforce after the strike would surely be a pyrrhic victory. In some ways, a temporarily reduced operation with 100pc of staff "on board" might be more likely to restore a proud brand & win back the travelling public and reverse BA's poor showing in the service quality award tables in recent years. I guess the figures will be run once the numbers are in by the end of the week. A large striking majority would obviously be a problem for BA, a smaller hardcore number could be seen as an opportunity.
Incidentally, I loved the report earlier that Unite were complaining that WW was "too busy" to meet again until Thursday - I expect it's because he has an airline to run (and I suspect he didn't make it to Wembley on Monday) rather than just having to organise the cold drinks & cakes at BFC!
Incidentally, I loved the report earlier that Unite were complaining that WW was "too busy" to meet again until Thursday - I expect it's because he has an airline to run (and I suspect he didn't make it to Wembley on Monday) rather than just having to organise the cold drinks & cakes at BFC!
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It is clear that this dispute is about control (which is ultimately about money). BASSA believes it can wrestle back control of the company by removing Mr.Walsh from his position as CEO. They have never had control taken from them by anyone else and they do not like it. It is not about the staff travel or the sacked crew, or the changes in their terms and conditions, it is purely about BASSA being considered irrelevant and hence ignored.
I'm starting to think that this dispute is going to end in one of only two ways. Either Willie Walsh is removed, or the strikers are managed out of the company. If the former occurs, I strongly believe that the company will not survive in anything even resembling its current form.
However, the BASSA militants and Mr. Walsh have become mutually exclusive. They cannot remain within the same company. Eventually, I am convinced it will come down to this. I just hope we do not haemorrhage too much cash in the meantime.
I'm starting to think that this dispute is going to end in one of only two ways. Either Willie Walsh is removed, or the strikers are managed out of the company. If the former occurs, I strongly believe that the company will not survive in anything even resembling its current form.
However, the BASSA militants and Mr. Walsh have become mutually exclusive. They cannot remain within the same company. Eventually, I am convinced it will come down to this. I just hope we do not haemorrhage too much cash in the meantime.
BentleyH
I wouldn't read too much into BA's operational plans if they remain unaltered for the rest of the strike. Bear in mind that many passengers will have accepted the pre-emptive offer to cancel or postpone (and availed of the marvellous work done by the guys and girls in BA Res in dealing with tens of thousands of reaccommodations and reroutings) during this period, and there would be little point in flying an expanded programme at this late stage. The experience with last minute re-instated flights in the last strike period has been that they attract few passengers, so BA might take the view that it is better to deliver 100pc of the published reduced programme than to fly last minute add-backs at a large loss. Aslo I assume that those crew overseas who will only strike on return to LHR will be almost all back home & deducted from available numbers by that time, so the net requirement for non-strikers & VCCs will increase anyway.
I wouldn't read too much into BA's operational plans if they remain unaltered for the rest of the strike. Bear in mind that many passengers will have accepted the pre-emptive offer to cancel or postpone (and availed of the marvellous work done by the guys and girls in BA Res in dealing with tens of thousands of reaccommodations and reroutings) during this period, and there would be little point in flying an expanded programme at this late stage. The experience with last minute re-instated flights in the last strike period has been that they attract few passengers, so BA might take the view that it is better to deliver 100pc of the published reduced programme than to fly last minute add-backs at a large loss. Aslo I assume that those crew overseas who will only strike on return to LHR will be almost all back home & deducted from available numbers by that time, so the net requirement for non-strikers & VCCs will increase anyway.
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Re Duncan Holley's words:
(a) He didn't seem to know the numbers before the first strike, which is why BA won the injunction.
(b) If people are simply cancelling the deduction from their payslips by contacting BA, then BASSA won't know until BA inform them.
So Holley is the one lying, isn't he?
For example - he said yesterday that 2000 BASSA members have left because of the recent strikes.
Only one person knows the exact figure and that is me. I checked this morning and since Jan 1, 568 members have stopped paying into the payroll, so Walsh is lying.
Only one person knows the exact figure and that is me. I checked this morning and since Jan 1, 568 members have stopped paying into the payroll, so Walsh is lying.
(b) If people are simply cancelling the deduction from their payslips by contacting BA, then BASSA won't know until BA inform them.
So Holley is the one lying, isn't he?
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Max Tow,
My understanding is that all flights for the next strike period were shown as operating until this morning, when the reduced schedule was announced.
It is therefore only now that passengers are being re-booked or offered refunds. If you look at the departures age on ba.com for 5th June for example, everything is currently shown as operating.
Less than 30% of VCCs were used yesterday and there were lots of crew sitting around on standby. This is of course good news because it shows the strike does not have much support, however the longhaul schedule for next week is actually smaller than the last day of the strikes in March even though there are at least as many people willing to work and more volunteers now available. I just feel BA are being a little too conservative with the resources they clearly have available. It would have been a great headline tonight for BA to issue a press release saying because the strike is so ineffective, we are increasing the longhaul program at LHR from 60% to 70% next week. Because they are being very conservative, they are not able to announce this.
My understanding is that all flights for the next strike period were shown as operating until this morning, when the reduced schedule was announced.
It is therefore only now that passengers are being re-booked or offered refunds. If you look at the departures age on ba.com for 5th June for example, everything is currently shown as operating.
Less than 30% of VCCs were used yesterday and there were lots of crew sitting around on standby. This is of course good news because it shows the strike does not have much support, however the longhaul schedule for next week is actually smaller than the last day of the strikes in March even though there are at least as many people willing to work and more volunteers now available. I just feel BA are being a little too conservative with the resources they clearly have available. It would have been a great headline tonight for BA to issue a press release saying because the strike is so ineffective, we are increasing the longhaul program at LHR from 60% to 70% next week. Because they are being very conservative, they are not able to announce this.
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Latest from Duncan Holley
The media are turning, mainly because they cannot believe this strike is still ongoing for the simple reason he wants to "punish" strikers. I have spoken over the last few days to every media outlet available (except the Daily Mail) and they are horrified. Even the Daily Telegraph said to me last night - "the problem is Walsh you know". Hello?
The media are turning, mainly because they cannot believe this strike is still ongoing for the simple reason he wants to "punish" strikers. I have spoken over the last few days to every media outlet available (except the Daily Mail) and they are horrified. Even the Daily Telegraph said to me last night - "the problem is Walsh you know". Hello?
All they are doing is trying to sell a story and the media are fickle when it comes to doing that. Look at the Daily Mail for instance, on one hand they were printing all the s*** about BASSA reps, now they are supposed to be telling DH that WW is the problem? Their stories have never always been in BA's favour but there have been times when they were. Having dealt with the media in the past, they will sympathise with you for the few minutes you are there just to get what they want, which is to sell newspapers and what they print is not always what they've said they would.
I'm BA cabin crew who is proud to cross the picket line.
BentleyH
I think you'll find BA are confirming the already announced reduced programme - see the following (5-9th June) strike period where the provisional reduced programme has been on BA.com for some time and will be confirmed next week.
Also bear in mind that most of the key premium passengers have flexible tickets and could already have cancelled/postponed/ moved to other carriers and no doubt many did so immediately after the strike announcement, as they quite understandably didn't wish to wait & take the risk. With round 2 of the global financial crisis apparently underway, there's plenty of availability to reaccommodate. Under these circumstances, flight consolidation is sensible - re-instating unneeded flights just to irritate the BFC spotters might not be.
I think you'll find BA are confirming the already announced reduced programme - see the following (5-9th June) strike period where the provisional reduced programme has been on BA.com for some time and will be confirmed next week.
Also bear in mind that most of the key premium passengers have flexible tickets and could already have cancelled/postponed/ moved to other carriers and no doubt many did so immediately after the strike announcement, as they quite understandably didn't wish to wait & take the risk. With round 2 of the global financial crisis apparently underway, there's plenty of availability to reaccommodate. Under these circumstances, flight consolidation is sensible - re-instating unneeded flights just to irritate the BFC spotters might not be.
Max Tow
In some ways, a temporarily reduced operation with 100pc of staff "on board" might be more likely to restore a proud brand & win back the travelling public
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Out of touch!
With regard to VCC, Caribbean Boy wrote
The bloated incremental scale of flying staff, what is it now 26 or 27 years? Is not enjoyed by the majority of the company, how about 3 or 7 years. 
Those of us that are unhappy with our lot, should take a long hard look at the current unemployment figures. There is a huge talent pool out there who will jump a the chance of filing our shoes. Lets face it, Asda floorwalker or BA crew - no contest really.
would lose quite a bit if high up the incremental scale.
Those of us that are unhappy with our lot, should take a long hard look at the current unemployment figures. There is a huge talent pool out there who will jump a the chance of filing our shoes. Lets face it, Asda floorwalker or BA crew - no contest really.
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Moderator Tightslot posts :
Reminder - In order to post on this thread, you must be currently serving airline staff. Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
* * * * * * * * * *
What about external BA shareholders ?
Aren't they the most important 'currently-serving airline staff' of all ?
Because, without them, there simply ain't an airline.
Perhaps their views should be encouraged on this Airline Staff thread. It would be interesting to see whether they support WW and his business-focused activities on behalf of BA shareholders, or unions which claim to be protecting their interests.
Wilbur Gunn.
BA Shareholder since 1997.
Reminder - In order to post on this thread, you must be currently serving airline staff. Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
* * * * * * * * * *
What about external BA shareholders ?
Aren't they the most important 'currently-serving airline staff' of all ?
Because, without them, there simply ain't an airline.
Perhaps their views should be encouraged on this Airline Staff thread. It would be interesting to see whether they support WW and his business-focused activities on behalf of BA shareholders, or unions which claim to be protecting their interests.
Wilbur Gunn.
BA Shareholder since 1997.
Mr/mrs Gunn, this forum and this thread are not here for the benefit of BA shareholders. Your (very real) importance to BA is not relevant here, since we at PPRuNe are not BA.
This thread is here to provide BA CC with a unbiased, bully & intimidation (from BOTH sides) free arena to exchange ideas.
BA CC can get the shareholders´ and pax´opinions elsewhere, but they can not find an unbiased arena anywhere else.
It has taken and still takes a lot of moderator work to keep this thread from sliding to the depths displayed elsewhere, but we see it as a service to our cabin crew colleagues in BA.
We Mods are cabin crew doing our bit for cabin crew, and secondarily for fellow aviation professionals like pilots, ground staff, engineers and anybody else currently employed in aviation, whose working lives may well be affected by the outcome of this dispute.
We are not here for the shareholders.
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Once again, some disgusting and unprofessional behaviour from BASSA. Their open topped bus has been going past a hotel at Heathrow, used by BA crew, other airline crew and the public, at slow speed with chants of 'SCABBIN CREW'. How mature - I'm sure this will earn support from those trying to rest...!
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Max Tow,
The 5th of June currently shows a complete schedule. There are no cancelled flights. Everyone remains booked based on the full schedule until the cancellations are announced. Take a look at the arrivals and departures section of ba.com.
I thinks it's great we are maintaining the current schedule with ease, but I think in order to finally defeat BASSA for good, we really should be moving towards an even bigger flying program. That's what is finally going to leave the loonies out in the cold.
The 5th of June currently shows a complete schedule. There are no cancelled flights. Everyone remains booked based on the full schedule until the cancellations are announced. Take a look at the arrivals and departures section of ba.com.
I thinks it's great we are maintaining the current schedule with ease, but I think in order to finally defeat BASSA for good, we really should be moving towards an even bigger flying program. That's what is finally going to leave the loonies out in the cold.
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Post 3760.
Fly73 discussed the amount of crew on 2hr standby, between 30 and 40 plus VCCs. They imply that the strike is waning and BA is maintaining its reduced operation.
However, they also state that the reason for their own extended standby duty was due to their flight being cancelled, and that the 30-40 other crew also had flights cancelled.
With so many crew and VCCs hanging about, for days, why are additional flights not being reinstated and the battle to break the strike accelerated.
Or does this reflect that the strike isn't going entirely BAs way with additional flights having to be cancelled.
Fly73 discussed the amount of crew on 2hr standby, between 30 and 40 plus VCCs. They imply that the strike is waning and BA is maintaining its reduced operation.
However, they also state that the reason for their own extended standby duty was due to their flight being cancelled, and that the 30-40 other crew also had flights cancelled.
With so many crew and VCCs hanging about, for days, why are additional flights not being reinstated and the battle to break the strike accelerated.
Or does this reflect that the strike isn't going entirely BAs way with additional flights having to be cancelled.