British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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SnackJack posts "As soon as recruitment opens again I will be applying for BA. I don't care how much I earn as long as it is enough to cover my bills, I would be happy with just the bare minimum as long as I have a secure position and not face yet another redundancy threat!"
I think there will be many people like snack jack, security in a job is a huge premium to those that have workwd in the real world, outside of the big bag of cotton wool we call ba.
Another group of youngsters will be out there, not looking for a career, but happy to be paid for a two year gap year, travelling the world with BA paying (and good luck to them, I wish I had thought of it.
Im backing BA
I think there will be many people like snack jack, security in a job is a huge premium to those that have workwd in the real world, outside of the big bag of cotton wool we call ba.
Another group of youngsters will be out there, not looking for a career, but happy to be paid for a two year gap year, travelling the world with BA paying (and good luck to them, I wish I had thought of it.
Im backing BA
Last edited by giza; 27th May 2010 at 21:39.
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Did anyone drive past a picket line or have any news from strike HQ?
The picket at the Perimeter roundabout hasn't been there for the last two days.
Perhaps they are suffering from sunburn or sunstroke, the heat is on!
But I believe there was one near or at Waterside today.
I am BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
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Tenko, I dont understand why you think you will be on £11,000 and £2.40 per flying hour, the deal for current staff is that you keep your terms and conditions.
I am convinced that you are a good person, as are so many of the cabin crew, but you are having the wool pulled over your eye by bassa, come to work, be proud and remain a part of the good bits of ba, you will not lose out at all. his is the quickest way to end this strike, if enough crew and VCC and wet lease are available to operate 100% service, its over.
Im Backing BA
( from Giza )
As long as you can stay clear of the obituaries board. That will do for me. Dont worry be happY!
I am convinced that you are a good person, as are so many of the cabin crew, but you are having the wool pulled over your eye by bassa, come to work, be proud and remain a part of the good bits of ba, you will not lose out at all. his is the quickest way to end this strike, if enough crew and VCC and wet lease are available to operate 100% service, its over.
Im Backing BA
( from Giza )As long as you can stay clear of the obituaries board. That will do for me. Dont worry be happY!
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YouTube - British Airways cabin crew on strike 2010
Just seen this - I'd say the message is " actually, you are pretty much alone"
Pathetic attempt to make it look as though the strike is having any effect
(good footage of when the ash cloud grounded aircraft at LHR though
)
Just seen this - I'd say the message is " actually, you are pretty much alone"
Pathetic attempt to make it look as though the strike is having any effect
(good footage of when the ash cloud grounded aircraft at LHR though
)
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tenko
to recap : WW has said that the BA will pay market rate + 10%. BA operates now in a very competitive world environment.
So, CC take 3 weeks to be trained and what WW wants are young people who will stay with the airline for 3/4 years and then leave, keeping the salary costs low. The good crew can be promoted and earn better money but they would be the exception.
The problem with BA (and BA has caused the problem) is that it has paid too well for too long and (without getting personal to anyone), earning £27K for cabin crew work is massively overpaid for the job in the current age. Its a £18-£22k job, full stop. This is where BA has to get to
If true, the September recruitment campaign for temporary crew ties in with not being able to recruit for c.90 days after making a position redundant - as people have alluded to already, that process will start in June IMHO. BA will be recruiting for more pilots late this year/early next year, these are full time positions and (from rumours) it may be quite substantial as many pilots have left/retired recently.
If you are cabin crew for BA and have not yet had to report, I would think about your decision very carefully - your income/job or BASSA ? It should not be a difficult decision ... if it is, you are probably not right for the brand NEW BA launching later this year!
Backing BA
So, CC take 3 weeks to be trained and what WW wants are young people who will stay with the airline for 3/4 years and then leave, keeping the salary costs low. The good crew can be promoted and earn better money but they would be the exception.
The problem with BA (and BA has caused the problem) is that it has paid too well for too long and (without getting personal to anyone), earning £27K for cabin crew work is massively overpaid for the job in the current age. Its a £18-£22k job, full stop. This is where BA has to get to
If true, the September recruitment campaign for temporary crew ties in with not being able to recruit for c.90 days after making a position redundant - as people have alluded to already, that process will start in June IMHO. BA will be recruiting for more pilots late this year/early next year, these are full time positions and (from rumours) it may be quite substantial as many pilots have left/retired recently.
If you are cabin crew for BA and have not yet had to report, I would think about your decision very carefully - your income/job or BASSA ? It should not be a difficult decision ... if it is, you are probably not right for the brand NEW BA launching later this year!
Backing BA
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Censorship?
I was involved in a small debate this am with other posters who explained that Alitalia was a model of industrial workers and that other European cabin crew work longer hours than BA crew.
All the posts have gone.
I left with a question. Why do BA pilots on long haul not fly short haul to regulate their hours within the 900hr rule. A genuine question. How come it isn't necessary but it is deemed to be a future requirement for cabin crew.
I've checked the moderators deletion comments (oh yes, they exist, and are usually hilarious.) It is fundamentally NOT censorship, it is all to do with relevance; your post, and the answers to it were irrelevant to the main thrust of this thread. However, this post can stand till you get your answer, and since I'm passing through having a look before bed, let me answer it via an edit.
Mixed-fleet flying is not as simple for pilots as it is for cabin crew. Pilots can only be current on one type at a time, unless there is another type covered by the same licensing requirements. Such as 757/767, who can indeed do a mix of short- and longhaul.
Even if there was a mix of 320-series/330/340 it would not be as simple, since whilst it is possible to mix long and short on those types, there are several major hurdles thrown up by the regulatory authorities when it comes to mixing 2- and 4-engined aircraft.
What is impossible is for a pilot to hold and remain current on, for example 747-400 flying longhaul, mixing that with A-320 or 757/737 for shorthaul. Only a few management pilots have ever held similar ratings, and the only real example I can remember flew Concorde and 757, but not 767, at the same time.
Hope this clarifies the situation somewhat. The issues are an exponential factor greater for pilots flying many types than they are for cabin crew. And unlike certain airlines (CX best example) BA do not "intelligently misuse" longhaul-configured aircraft on shorthaul routes.
I'll go back into my cage now. Apologies, and thanks, to the forum moderators for indulging me.
Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator
(The original Cabin Crew forum moderator before handing it over to the best team of mods on the site, who are NOT pilots. That happened because it was realised this area needs non-pilot moderators in charge.
All the posts have gone.
I left with a question. Why do BA pilots on long haul not fly short haul to regulate their hours within the 900hr rule. A genuine question. How come it isn't necessary but it is deemed to be a future requirement for cabin crew.
I've checked the moderators deletion comments (oh yes, they exist, and are usually hilarious.) It is fundamentally NOT censorship, it is all to do with relevance; your post, and the answers to it were irrelevant to the main thrust of this thread. However, this post can stand till you get your answer, and since I'm passing through having a look before bed, let me answer it via an edit.
Mixed-fleet flying is not as simple for pilots as it is for cabin crew. Pilots can only be current on one type at a time, unless there is another type covered by the same licensing requirements. Such as 757/767, who can indeed do a mix of short- and longhaul.
Even if there was a mix of 320-series/330/340 it would not be as simple, since whilst it is possible to mix long and short on those types, there are several major hurdles thrown up by the regulatory authorities when it comes to mixing 2- and 4-engined aircraft.
What is impossible is for a pilot to hold and remain current on, for example 747-400 flying longhaul, mixing that with A-320 or 757/737 for shorthaul. Only a few management pilots have ever held similar ratings, and the only real example I can remember flew Concorde and 757, but not 767, at the same time.
Hope this clarifies the situation somewhat. The issues are an exponential factor greater for pilots flying many types than they are for cabin crew. And unlike certain airlines (CX best example) BA do not "intelligently misuse" longhaul-configured aircraft on shorthaul routes.
I'll go back into my cage now. Apologies, and thanks, to the forum moderators for indulging me.
Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator
(The original Cabin Crew forum moderator before handing it over to the best team of mods on the site, who are NOT pilots. That happened because it was realised this area needs non-pilot moderators in charge.
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eddy STAFF TRAVEL
Just so every one is clear this is the situation on staff travel
Yes the reduced seniority offer is still on the table, but not just for returning to work, it will only be re instated if the strikes are called off, or no more strikes called, and staff sign up to the new deal, in full as offered, any other scenario, no staff travel. It will be returned with a personal start date the same date as the new deal is signed up.
Now, interesting point, full prestrike staff travel entitlement will be offered on leaving or retirement as per the ST09 agreement.
I dont know why this is difficult, it was sent to every crew member.
I am backing BA
Yes the reduced seniority offer is still on the table, but not just for returning to work, it will only be re instated if the strikes are called off, or no more strikes called, and staff sign up to the new deal, in full as offered, any other scenario, no staff travel. It will be returned with a personal start date the same date as the new deal is signed up.
Now, interesting point, full prestrike staff travel entitlement will be offered on leaving or retirement as per the ST09 agreement.
I dont know why this is difficult, it was sent to every crew member.
I am backing BA
Last edited by giza; 27th May 2010 at 21:43.
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Quote:
Did anyone drive past a picket line or have any news from strike HQ?
Chesh01,
The picket at the Perimeter roundabout hasn't been there for the last two days.
Perhaps they are suffering from sunburn or sunstroke, the heat is on!
But I believe there was one near or at Waterside today.
I am BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
Did anyone drive past a picket line or have any news from strike HQ?
Chesh01,
The picket at the Perimeter roundabout hasn't been there for the last two days.
Perhaps they are suffering from sunburn or sunstroke, the heat is on!
But I believe there was one near or at Waterside today.
I am BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
It's hard to believe with all the support and BFC 5 minutes walk away they can't even be bothered to man it for the whole day.
Litebulbs - you bring up a very valid point which a lot of posters on the side of the strikers have been trying to make on this site for some time. Is it legal to punish someone who is on strike by removing their staff travel priveledges? I'd say not but I guess a guinea pig would need to step up and take it through the courts to find out.
As much as I'm against the strike happening I feel this was a mistake which had it not have happened the strikes may not have gone ahead this time. BA News this week reports 2500 CC member have lost staff travel, I wonder how many actually came in just to keep it. Was it really worth playing that card???
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Please enter the real world
There seems to be a great working relationship WITHOUT the militants, a friendly atmosphere without all the political hype.
All departments seem to be united in anger at the pointless strike, the fact that we have no such guarantees with our terms and conditions and are fed with taking the hit. We now have our jobs and pensions further jeopardized by their mindless actions.
'They' have just been mocked on 'Have I got news for you' (check out bbc iplayer if you missed it)
Seems they still just don't get it. I think they may do when, sadly for them, it's just gonna be tooooooooo late.
All departments seem to be united in anger at the pointless strike, the fact that we have no such guarantees with our terms and conditions and are fed with taking the hit. We now have our jobs and pensions further jeopardized by their mindless actions.
'They' have just been mocked on 'Have I got news for you' (check out bbc iplayer if you missed it)
Seems they still just don't get it. I think they may do when, sadly for them, it's just gonna be tooooooooo late.
Last edited by ranger07; 27th May 2010 at 22:13.
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BA news competition
perhaps BA news could run a competition for the volunteers that have gone way above the call of duty.
And the prize : maybe a pair of season tickets to bedfont Football club?
And the prize : maybe a pair of season tickets to bedfont Football club?
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Fargoo
Thanks for at least joining a conversation with me on this. There was some talk earlier in the thread about punishing strikers, along with comments about illegal action.
Now I don't want to talk about the rights or wrongs of the strike, but I do want to talk about whether BA can carry out some sort of punitive action against a group of workers involved in protected industrial action. If BA had removed all staff travel, then there would be less of an argument, because it is BA's to give or remove. But that should be for all, not directed at a specific group.
Now I don't want to talk about the rights or wrongs of the strike, but I do want to talk about whether BA can carry out some sort of punitive action against a group of workers involved in protected industrial action. If BA had removed all staff travel, then there would be less of an argument, because it is BA's to give or remove. But that should be for all, not directed at a specific group.
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Vols
I am off the bed as I am an early shift tomorrow on crew support, and agian on Monday (bank holiday
). If you see the guys and gals in the yellow tabards spend a few seconds to say hello, it brightens our day, it can get boring gaurding a lift all day. Actually we spend more time helping passenger while we are there and that is enjoyable, but a smile and a chat would be appreciated, last time we were pretty well ignored by crew, only spoke to two crew, both VCC.
this is not a question to be agravating, but I never see any cabin crew volunteers in crew support, working on your days off, have you been told not too.
Backing BA
). If you see the guys and gals in the yellow tabards spend a few seconds to say hello, it brightens our day, it can get boring gaurding a lift all day. Actually we spend more time helping passenger while we are there and that is enjoyable, but a smile and a chat would be appreciated, last time we were pretty well ignored by crew, only spoke to two crew, both VCC.this is not a question to be agravating, but I never see any cabin crew volunteers in crew support, working on your days off, have you been told not too.
Backing BA
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this is not a question to be agravating, but I never see any cabin crew volunteers in crew support, working on your days off, have you been told not too.
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Now I don't want to talk about the rights or wrongs of the strike, but I do want to talk about whether BA can carry out some sort of punitive action against a group of workers involved in protected industrial action. If BA had removed all staff travel, then there would be less of an argument, because it is BA's to give or remove. But that should be for all, not directed at a specific group.
Could they for example take away free parking at the airport for striking workers? I'd say not and it is a similar perk/concession.
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aer lingus
On March 9, Aer Lingus said it would impose compulsory redundancies for almost a quarter of its 1,000 cabin crew and cut salaries for the rest as a response to the lack of cooperation by IMPACT.
But, as required by law, it started a 30-day consultation period with employees before sacking them.
Aer Lingus cabin crew vote again on cuts | Reuters
But, as required by law, it started a 30-day consultation period with employees before sacking them.
Aer Lingus cabin crew vote again on cuts | Reuters
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PC767
It's all to do with licencing on the different aircraft types, rules and practicality dictate that CC may be licenced on more aircraft types than FC.
IIRC the Airbus guys are licenced on the A318/A319/A320/A321 but they all do similar short haul routes; except of course, the A318 LCY where they're keeping the numbers low to keep the pilots current. If we got the A330 or A350 this would allow mixed fleet flying for the Airbus pilots.
The B757/767 do a mix of LH and SH but this is a dying fleet.
Everyone else just flies the one type.
The new 787 that's on order is being evaluated with a view to mixed fleet flying with the 777 but both willl be doing LH. So won't necessary allow a mix.
Mixed fleet flying on the 757/767 during it's heyday meant that it was a very popular fleet.
WRT 900 hrs - When I first joined the company in the late 90s I flew 580hrs in the first year and 630 in the 2nd year - the last 3 years I've been running at 880 hrs per year. This has been through numerous rewrite of bidline rules and increased efficiencies with the rostering system/layovers etc - things that we've agreed to over the past 10 years or so.
With the increased CAP (annual duty hours target) that we agreed with BA last year, this will mean that many 747 and 777 will be working an extra 3 days per year and be bumping right up to the 900 hr limit.
FWIW as part of last years negotiations we've lost a pilot on most of our 4 crew flights meaning that our bunk time is halved - again something the pilots gave to the company to help it through these troubled times.
The paycut agreed to last year has cost me personally around 8.5%, not the headline 2.6% that BASSA band about.
I could go on and bore you with all the other bits of our agreement but the bottom line is that we've had our Ts and Cs shaved off and sanded down through negotiation with pilots recognising the need for change for the long term health of BA and thus continued job security.
Why do BA pilots on long haul not fly short haul to regulate their hours within the 900hr rule. A genuine question. How come it isn't necessary but it is deemed to be a future requirement for cabin crew.
IIRC the Airbus guys are licenced on the A318/A319/A320/A321 but they all do similar short haul routes; except of course, the A318 LCY where they're keeping the numbers low to keep the pilots current. If we got the A330 or A350 this would allow mixed fleet flying for the Airbus pilots.
The B757/767 do a mix of LH and SH but this is a dying fleet.
Everyone else just flies the one type.
The new 787 that's on order is being evaluated with a view to mixed fleet flying with the 777 but both willl be doing LH. So won't necessary allow a mix.
Mixed fleet flying on the 757/767 during it's heyday meant that it was a very popular fleet.
WRT 900 hrs - When I first joined the company in the late 90s I flew 580hrs in the first year and 630 in the 2nd year - the last 3 years I've been running at 880 hrs per year. This has been through numerous rewrite of bidline rules and increased efficiencies with the rostering system/layovers etc - things that we've agreed to over the past 10 years or so.
With the increased CAP (annual duty hours target) that we agreed with BA last year, this will mean that many 747 and 777 will be working an extra 3 days per year and be bumping right up to the 900 hr limit.
FWIW as part of last years negotiations we've lost a pilot on most of our 4 crew flights meaning that our bunk time is halved - again something the pilots gave to the company to help it through these troubled times.
The paycut agreed to last year has cost me personally around 8.5%, not the headline 2.6% that BASSA band about.
I could go on and bore you with all the other bits of our agreement but the bottom line is that we've had our Ts and Cs shaved off and sanded down through negotiation with pilots recognising the need for change for the long term health of BA and thus continued job security.