British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More from Unite:
Thinking of Working?
The emperor's new clothes...please read on.
Forget the media hype and the BA news hysteria.
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be
destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union
will be if you don't.
The only person increasingly likely to damage British Airways is Mr. Walsh
and he is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month
of bad publicity just to prove a point? Trouble is nobody will tell him;
anybody that dared to air an alternative view has been silenced, or has
simply moved on.
If you choose to go to work over this next dispute, then you too are
playing along with the "I am backing BA, flag waving crowd" - sadly this
is an empty chant, invented by cynical managers who have worked for this
company for a couple of years, yet this "sound bite" is also being
unquestioningly and naively swallowed by people who have worked for BA for
decades who really should know better. Their loyalty should be to the
airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's
image. For when it's their turn to be sacrificed for greater profit, make
no mistake, they will be, pilots included.
We are all British Airways, not just those who work in Waterside; what
gave them the right to hijack our airline's good name for their own ends?
If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed, not by Mr. Walsh - he could never
achieve that - but by you from within, by deserting us when the going got
tough.
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that
believes they are standing up for their union, though we greatly
appreciate that, we want you to know that this is really all about
standing up for YOU.
At the end of the day, it's your job, your life, your career and your
bills that have to be paid. British Airways no longer wants you to have
your flying agreements, they have told you that; that's why they have
already introduced new contracts and soon, a new fleet.
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus,
ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Only a few hurdles are still in their way - cabin crews' belief in their
own rights and a strong union to fight for them.
If you chose - and it will be your choice - to break the strike and go to
work, you have effectively and actively chosen to serve notice on both of
these, in that one gesture.
The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
Unite has compromised so much to try and get a deal and thus avoid you
having to go on strike, as we know this can be a daunting prospect, but
let's be brutally honest, this has been to the point of being seen as
almost desperate and at times almost embarrassing how conciliatory we were
all prepared to be. While Mr. Walsh has persistently rejected every
compromise, remained openly provocative and deliberately confrontational.
If you are not concerned by all of this, fair enough. Go to work and be
counted by Willy Walsh every single day, on every single news channel
around the world, as a number, a statistic he can use to show how much
cabin crew "support him" and his actions.
It's a blunt message but a true one; there are no hiding places left for
any of us, no fence to sit on - you're either with Mr. Walsh and Mr.
Francis and ALL that they stand for, or your colleagues that are standing
up for what's right. There is no middle ground left anymore.
No second chance, right or wrong, this is a moment in your personal
history.
It's up to you; by all means go to work, but in doing so you are making a
bed for us all to lie in, that is why we are appealing and pleading to
every single person, no matter what decision you made over the previous
strike, to now support yourselves before its too late.
We are sorry if this message sounds a little harsh or even negative, but
what needs to be said needs to be said, before it's too late. If it is
over and your union is destroyed, then your job will change beyond
recognition in the years to come. We do not want there to be any doubt
that we tried to warn you.
Tuesday 18th May - See you there or not, It's up to you...
If you have already decided to break the strike, there are no hard
feelings you are still fellow crew, we would only ask you to consider
printing this out, putting it away in a draw. In few years from now, you
may across it and reflect what might have been.
"If we fight for our rights and our dignity, we cannot promise you that we
will win but if we don't, then we have already lost them."
The emperor's new clothes...please read on.
Forget the media hype and the BA news hysteria.
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be
destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union
will be if you don't.
The only person increasingly likely to damage British Airways is Mr. Walsh
and he is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month
of bad publicity just to prove a point? Trouble is nobody will tell him;
anybody that dared to air an alternative view has been silenced, or has
simply moved on.
If you choose to go to work over this next dispute, then you too are
playing along with the "I am backing BA, flag waving crowd" - sadly this
is an empty chant, invented by cynical managers who have worked for this
company for a couple of years, yet this "sound bite" is also being
unquestioningly and naively swallowed by people who have worked for BA for
decades who really should know better. Their loyalty should be to the
airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's
image. For when it's their turn to be sacrificed for greater profit, make
no mistake, they will be, pilots included.
We are all British Airways, not just those who work in Waterside; what
gave them the right to hijack our airline's good name for their own ends?
If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed, not by Mr. Walsh - he could never
achieve that - but by you from within, by deserting us when the going got
tough.
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that
believes they are standing up for their union, though we greatly
appreciate that, we want you to know that this is really all about
standing up for YOU.
At the end of the day, it's your job, your life, your career and your
bills that have to be paid. British Airways no longer wants you to have
your flying agreements, they have told you that; that's why they have
already introduced new contracts and soon, a new fleet.
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus,
ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Only a few hurdles are still in their way - cabin crews' belief in their
own rights and a strong union to fight for them.
If you chose - and it will be your choice - to break the strike and go to
work, you have effectively and actively chosen to serve notice on both of
these, in that one gesture.
The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
Unite has compromised so much to try and get a deal and thus avoid you
having to go on strike, as we know this can be a daunting prospect, but
let's be brutally honest, this has been to the point of being seen as
almost desperate and at times almost embarrassing how conciliatory we were
all prepared to be. While Mr. Walsh has persistently rejected every
compromise, remained openly provocative and deliberately confrontational.
If you are not concerned by all of this, fair enough. Go to work and be
counted by Willy Walsh every single day, on every single news channel
around the world, as a number, a statistic he can use to show how much
cabin crew "support him" and his actions.
It's a blunt message but a true one; there are no hiding places left for
any of us, no fence to sit on - you're either with Mr. Walsh and Mr.
Francis and ALL that they stand for, or your colleagues that are standing
up for what's right. There is no middle ground left anymore.
No second chance, right or wrong, this is a moment in your personal
history.
It's up to you; by all means go to work, but in doing so you are making a
bed for us all to lie in, that is why we are appealing and pleading to
every single person, no matter what decision you made over the previous
strike, to now support yourselves before its too late.
We are sorry if this message sounds a little harsh or even negative, but
what needs to be said needs to be said, before it's too late. If it is
over and your union is destroyed, then your job will change beyond
recognition in the years to come. We do not want there to be any doubt
that we tried to warn you.
Tuesday 18th May - See you there or not, It's up to you...
If you have already decided to break the strike, there are no hard
feelings you are still fellow crew, we would only ask you to consider
printing this out, putting it away in a draw. In few years from now, you
may across it and reflect what might have been.
"If we fight for our rights and our dignity, we cannot promise you that we
will win but if we don't, then we have already lost them."
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Todays grim picture
They obviously haven't read the Financial Mail headlines today! 
Record losses at British Airways spark survival fears | Mail Online
Record losses at British Airways spark survival fears | Mail Online
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you have a very twisted view as there are plenty of "Joe public" out there who find it hard to swallow that crew get to fly around the world, stay in luxury hotels, eat for free while on duty, get enormously discounted staff travel when they are off duty and then expect everyone to feel sorry for them when they have have to bear their share of the savings the company has to make if it is to remain solvent.
Sorry for the cliche but most people have to scrimp and save all year to do the things that crew seem to take for granted...
Sorry for the cliche but most people have to scrimp and save all year to do the things that crew seem to take for granted...
The amount you quote is conservative
Get Smart
The articles in the financial press will make little difference. Some of our colleagues seem to be so disconnected from the reality of the wider BA that I honestly think that even if the Company folded and "For Let" signs were glued to the windows of CRC they would still expect to be paid every month.
As an aside why can no-one say " Because I was on strike I lost my Staff Travel"? The latest euphamism (?sp.) I heard yesterday was "Due to the Current Industrial situation I've got to pay more for my tickets"......
As an aside why can no-one say " Because I was on strike I lost my Staff Travel"? The latest euphamism (?sp.) I heard yesterday was "Due to the Current Industrial situation I've got to pay more for my tickets"......
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Age: 56
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to think for UNITE !!
Finally Unite/BASSA admits that plenty of people did not follow their mad and self destructive calls for battle.
And rather than looking inward as to why and how relations with their enstranged cabin crew population can be be improved.
They simply start shooting all blame for the failure of their miserable tactics at their own members for not participating in the last 2 strikes in the numbers they so long had us believe.
Very typical of the self serving and self obsessed Unite/BASSA leadership.
What else did we expect?
People are leaving Unite/BASSA in droves, cabin crew as well as ground staff.
Come on Unite, it's time to take a good long hard look at yourself!!!!!
And maybe admit that you done an incredibly terrible service in representing the best interest of your paying members.
I do hope your members, history and BA will hold you to account for this mess.
And rather than looking inward as to why and how relations with their enstranged cabin crew population can be be improved.
They simply start shooting all blame for the failure of their miserable tactics at their own members for not participating in the last 2 strikes in the numbers they so long had us believe.
Very typical of the self serving and self obsessed Unite/BASSA leadership.
What else did we expect?
People are leaving Unite/BASSA in droves, cabin crew as well as ground staff.
Come on Unite, it's time to take a good long hard look at yourself!!!!!
And maybe admit that you done an incredibly terrible service in representing the best interest of your paying members.
I do hope your members, history and BA will hold you to account for this mess.
Last edited by flyingsoldier1993; 16th May 2010 at 10:17.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Shadows
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amicus DID suggest that the hourly rate was the way forward at the start of all this. When they suggested it as part of a possible "way forward", BASSA would not even consider it.
The injunction is a tactic to scare the crew. It may work.
The truth is that the figures were correctly posted for everyone to see at the time. But I guess if I were BA I'd try anything and everything.
Worrying part of all this is that when it IS resolved, there are then going to be 4 fleets, all on different T&C's.
Not ideal.
Granted the legacy fleets will shrink over the years, but LGW has been promised growth (LH anyhow if the MOA can be changed).
Now if LGW was "so great", why didn't they say "new fleet will have LGW fleet T&Cs". Nope, it's going to be all different again. More cost (short term at least). More complexity. Doesn't make sense does it?
LGW agreements, whilst far cheaper and economical than the legacy fleet ones, are still prohibitive in certain areas, far more than what BA has said the the new fleet will be. Also do LGW crew really believe that once BA have a fleet with aircraft with just main crew and one SCCM at LHR, that also operate to an agreement less restrictive than their own, that this model will not come to LGW? It will basically be what we're seeing now in reverse. Goodbye CM (we're already waving a long term goodbye to CSD).
There is more change to come I think. And those who are now being thanked for coming in, and having done their bit for accepting change and cost savings in the past will once more be asked to "give again".
Obviously I really hope I'm wrong. I really do.
The injunction is a tactic to scare the crew. It may work.
The truth is that the figures were correctly posted for everyone to see at the time. But I guess if I were BA I'd try anything and everything.
Worrying part of all this is that when it IS resolved, there are then going to be 4 fleets, all on different T&C's.
Not ideal.
Granted the legacy fleets will shrink over the years, but LGW has been promised growth (LH anyhow if the MOA can be changed).
Now if LGW was "so great", why didn't they say "new fleet will have LGW fleet T&Cs". Nope, it's going to be all different again. More cost (short term at least). More complexity. Doesn't make sense does it?
LGW agreements, whilst far cheaper and economical than the legacy fleet ones, are still prohibitive in certain areas, far more than what BA has said the the new fleet will be. Also do LGW crew really believe that once BA have a fleet with aircraft with just main crew and one SCCM at LHR, that also operate to an agreement less restrictive than their own, that this model will not come to LGW? It will basically be what we're seeing now in reverse. Goodbye CM (we're already waving a long term goodbye to CSD).
There is more change to come I think. And those who are now being thanked for coming in, and having done their bit for accepting change and cost savings in the past will once more be asked to "give again".
Obviously I really hope I'm wrong. I really do.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ottergirl, valid points and I find myself often agreeing with you, however, if cc find themselves sobbing in crc because they can't take another 10 days away, then they too have the choice to leave. As cc myself, I acknowledge that we do have a good job, we are well paid for what we do. I can fully understand why the public have no sympathy for us. We are all master of our own destiny so if the job makes you unhappy, you have the choice to find another occupation. 
Its time for us to accept the moderate change before us in order to obtain long term employment security for everyone at BA and even the thousdands of companies and its employees that rely on trade with BA - around the globe.
Its time for us to accept the moderate change before us in order to obtain long term employment security for everyone at BA and even the thousdands of companies and its employees that rely on trade with BA - around the globe.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiggy
Sadly, I agree with you. What will it take! We can only hope that with the meeting on Monday with Phil Hammond and WW/Unite, and with the court injunction, something positive may come of it. 
WeLieInTheShadows,
A bit difficult to believe, but if you can provide a representative illustration, that would be useful. Thanks!
LGW agreements, whilst far cheaper and economical than the legacy fleet ones, are still prohibitive in certain areas, far more than what BA has said the the new fleet will be.
From the Unite plea to working cabin crew quoted above:
" If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed..."
A quite amazing admission which will only serve to reinforce and reinvigorate BA's view that this episode can be ended with a few more heaves. How can this be the same union which only a few weeks ago was claiming that BA's contingency plans to keep flying were "a work of fiction", then that only 26 crew members broke the strike and that half the fleet was parked at CWL & SNN whilst many of the rest were positioning around empty?
Shouldn't there be an explanation somewhere between these statements as to why the union had been telling large porkies to its members in repeatedly denying BA's operational figures?
It is also interesting that they are now unashamedly characterising the struggle as for the survival of the union, and by implication its leadership, rather than the future employment of the individuals whom it has led into this appalling fix.
" If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed..."
A quite amazing admission which will only serve to reinforce and reinvigorate BA's view that this episode can be ended with a few more heaves. How can this be the same union which only a few weeks ago was claiming that BA's contingency plans to keep flying were "a work of fiction", then that only 26 crew members broke the strike and that half the fleet was parked at CWL & SNN whilst many of the rest were positioning around empty?
Shouldn't there be an explanation somewhere between these statements as to why the union had been telling large porkies to its members in repeatedly denying BA's operational figures?
It is also interesting that they are now unashamedly characterising the struggle as for the survival of the union, and by implication its leadership, rather than the future employment of the individuals whom it has led into this appalling fix.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lalaland
Age: 55
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Own Goal by TW!
I also saw TW's sky interview. Opps!
He stated the Business side has been sorted out in principal, and that BA needs to back down on being petty and vindictive towards union members with regards to staff travel, suspensions and dismissals.
The strike ballot mandate is for imposition NOT staff travel and suspended crew, so Tuesday's strike could be classed as unofficial industrial action then!
He stated the Business side has been sorted out in principal, and that BA needs to back down on being petty and vindictive towards union members with regards to staff travel, suspensions and dismissals.
The strike ballot mandate is for imposition NOT staff travel and suspended crew, so Tuesday's strike could be classed as unofficial industrial action then!
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony Woodley/BBC News
Have just experienced the benefit of Mr.Woodley's aggressive style of presentation and my blood pressure is sill on the rise. It is no wonder we have no settlement is sight. His style may be suited to the docks of Liverpool or the Gorbals of Glasgow, but negotiating with a sophisticated employer it certainly is not.
One thing that he has confirmed is that the dispute is now simply about ST and disciplinaries. My understanding is that the strike mandate is about imposition, SOOO has he left the union open to a further court challenge??
We also had the usual mixed messages.On the one hand they were making noises yesterday about cancelling strike action due to the ash threat, on the other Mr.Woodley was very definite that the strike would go ahead.
What a muppet!!! Let's suppose the strike goes ahead and the ash closes LHR. Strikers get no pay, BA saves money...strike action even more pointless.
A real indication of the muddled thinking even at the top of the organisation.
OK...blood pressure getting back to normal.
One thing that he has confirmed is that the dispute is now simply about ST and disciplinaries. My understanding is that the strike mandate is about imposition, SOOO has he left the union open to a further court challenge??
We also had the usual mixed messages.On the one hand they were making noises yesterday about cancelling strike action due to the ash threat, on the other Mr.Woodley was very definite that the strike would go ahead.
What a muppet!!! Let's suppose the strike goes ahead and the ash closes LHR. Strikers get no pay, BA saves money...strike action even more pointless.
A real indication of the muddled thinking even at the top of the organisation.
OK...blood pressure getting back to normal.
An interesting interview. It's strange that TW is forcing thousands of his members to risk their livelihoods through strike action to overturn the results of a handful of BA disciplinary hearings. If the individuals concerned have been incorrectly disciplined or victimised by BA, are there not sufficient fair employment laws in place after 13 years of government by the union-backed Labour party to achieve redress? Or is it perhaps the case that TW fears that BA are enforcing legitimate punishment for real offences against fellow workers, so that there isn't a hope of reversing and saving face except through strong arm union action? Ditto with staff travel - if as the union has repeatedly assured its members before sending them out as cannon fodder, staff travel is a contractual benefit incapable of removal, why does it not simply go to court and prove it for a fraction of the cost and suffering of 10,000 lost incomes over 20 days or more?
Last edited by Max Tow; 16th May 2010 at 11:33.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest Unite missive
The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
So, according to this it IS about imposition, no mention of ST/Disciplinaries.
How do they square this with TW's statement on the Beeb/SKY that it IS about ST/Disciplinaries.
Do these people talk to each other???
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
So, according to this it IS about imposition, no mention of ST/Disciplinaries.
How do they square this with TW's statement on the Beeb/SKY that it IS about ST/Disciplinaries.
Do these people talk to each other???
BA saves money...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A point of order....
Just as a point of order 'the Union backed Labour Government' in it's 13 years of office did not introduce any radical changes to the law relating to strike action. The vast majority of the current law concerning strike action dates back to the 1980s and was (IMHO) rightly introduced in the wake of the Miners Strike of 1984-85 by a firmly right wing Government.
And to be honest, does any political party give a toss about such a small trivial strike?
And to be honest, does any political party give a toss about such a small trivial strike?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by demomonkey
And to be honest, does any political party give a toss about such a small trivial strike?
Originally Posted by Transport Secretary, Phillip Hammond MP
Let's cancel this strike, let's sit down around the table and hammer out a solution.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My point exactly Eddy. Pre-election the Conservative party were severely criticizing Gordon Brown and the Labour party for not immediately intervening to bring the strike to an end.
Now they're in power, they're doing exactly what the then Labour Government did and try to bring both sides together for 'talks'. No more tough talk. Two quotes spring to mind;
"Stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results" and
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!"
Now they're in power, they're doing exactly what the then Labour Government did and try to bring both sides together for 'talks'. No more tough talk. Two quotes spring to mind;
"Stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results" and
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!"
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results"
B