British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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I would do anything to see the face expressions of Jess Fletcher, Parisboy, Dragonwagon, Miss Marple, HassleFree, EasyTiger, SickBag, Seagull, Flightty and the rest of the cult when they understand they have been sold down the river by their beloved BASSA. Poor mislead individuals! Bring on the 12th of June and get rid of the old wood once and for all before they destroy BA.
Next week should be interesting. I'm one of the pilot volunteers and never had the chance to work in the cabin in March. Maybe this time? Probably not!
Next week should be interesting. I'm one of the pilot volunteers and never had the chance to work in the cabin in March. Maybe this time? Probably not!
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Nevermind
Your thoughts are very similar to mine.
The comes a point in time where the company will not tolerate the uncertainty any more. I think that time is fast approaching, and this latest announcement of strike dates may well tip the balance in favour of total annihilation for strikers.
Forget the 12 week strike protection clause, BA can sack strikers any time they wish - all the 12 weeks does is to give an 'unfair dismissal' right to those sacked.
As you correctly state, the cost of 23 days of strike action will greatly exceed the cost of any unfair dismissal payments that BA may have to pay a year down the road.
BASSA and its supporters need to be very wary of their actions and the possible consequences.
I would rate the chance of annihilation of BASSA and strikers at 75% at least right now. I fully expect WW to state by the end of this week that CC will lose their jobs or be indefinitely suspended if they fail to report for any rostered duty.
Your thoughts are very similar to mine.
The comes a point in time where the company will not tolerate the uncertainty any more. I think that time is fast approaching, and this latest announcement of strike dates may well tip the balance in favour of total annihilation for strikers.
Forget the 12 week strike protection clause, BA can sack strikers any time they wish - all the 12 weeks does is to give an 'unfair dismissal' right to those sacked.
As you correctly state, the cost of 23 days of strike action will greatly exceed the cost of any unfair dismissal payments that BA may have to pay a year down the road.
BASSA and its supporters need to be very wary of their actions and the possible consequences.
I would rate the chance of annihilation of BASSA and strikers at 75% at least right now. I fully expect WW to state by the end of this week that CC will lose their jobs or be indefinitely suspended if they fail to report for any rostered duty.
Thread Starter
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If any of you are going to post on this thread, please try and include something of interest to others, rather than endless demonstrations of your own wit and perception.
A majority of recent posts are simply iterations of previous statements and positions. They add nothing to the debate and waste time and bandwidth. I'm sure that you're all familiar with the phrase "In love with sound of your own keyboard": Remember it please.
A majority of recent posts are simply iterations of previous statements and positions. They add nothing to the debate and waste time and bandwidth. I'm sure that you're all familiar with the phrase "In love with sound of your own keyboard": Remember it please.
Just had a text from Flt Ops stating that VCC rosters are starting from Thursday 13 May - thats right tomorrow.
Any bassa/lalaland supporter care to elaborate on this news!
Have rosters been wiped yet - if not it must be imminent.
Looks like a pre-emptive strike by WW. If so - sadly nuclear war is now upon us!!
Any bassa/lalaland supporter care to elaborate on this news!
Have rosters been wiped yet - if not it must be imminent.
Looks like a pre-emptive strike by WW. If so - sadly nuclear war is now upon us!!
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"If we all stand together united and vote yes to industrial action it will show WW we mean business and he will back down" , "Don't worry we will not have to strike BASSA know what they are doing"
Those statements seem so distant now.
Those statements seem so distant now.
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Employment Relations Act 2004
The Employment Relations Act 2004 (Commencement No 2 and Transition Provisions) Order 2004 SI 2004/3342 brought into force on 31 December 2004 the provisions of sections 15, 18, 33, 34, 36, 39 and 54 of the Act (with consequential amendments and repeals). The gist of sections 15, 18, 39 and 54 is to amend or extend the Secretary of State's powers to make orders, either generally or in relation to the statutory recognition procedure and voting methods in ballots and elections under TULR(C)A1992. Section 33 permits a trade union to exclude or expel an individual for taking part in the activities of a political party; section 34 makes consequential amendments to the jurisdiction of tribunals in such cases. Section 36 is a clarifying provision relating to national security cases.
The Employment Relations Act 1999 also provides, subject to conditions, unfair dismissal protection for those dismissed because of their involvement in protected industrial action. This is achieved by inserting a new section 238A into the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. The overall effect of these new provisions is that the dismissal of an employee for taking lawfully organised, official industrial action is automatically unfair dismissal if:
- it takes place within twelve weeks of the employee commencing industrial action;
- - it occurs after this 12 week period but the employee had returned to work before the end of the 12 weeks; or
- - it occurs after this period and the employer has not taken all reasonable steps to resolve the dispute.
Strike ends on June 9th so some protection exists for employees who have taken IA. However, British Airways also has rights to protect it from damage. It can sack any employee in BREACH OF CONTRACT. It then could be bought before a court for unfair dismissal. IT CAN , HOWEVER , Terminate or amend contracts for Some Other Substantial Reason, like survival of the trading status of the company. Any future strike MUST NOT BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY
to any previous strike as then the employer can dismiss employees without legal recourse.
The Employment Relations Act 2004 (Commencement No 2 and Transition Provisions) Order 2004 SI 2004/3342 brought into force on 31 December 2004 the provisions of sections 15, 18, 33, 34, 36, 39 and 54 of the Act (with consequential amendments and repeals). The gist of sections 15, 18, 39 and 54 is to amend or extend the Secretary of State's powers to make orders, either generally or in relation to the statutory recognition procedure and voting methods in ballots and elections under TULR(C)A1992. Section 33 permits a trade union to exclude or expel an individual for taking part in the activities of a political party; section 34 makes consequential amendments to the jurisdiction of tribunals in such cases. Section 36 is a clarifying provision relating to national security cases.
The Employment Relations Act 1999 also provides, subject to conditions, unfair dismissal protection for those dismissed because of their involvement in protected industrial action. This is achieved by inserting a new section 238A into the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. The overall effect of these new provisions is that the dismissal of an employee for taking lawfully organised, official industrial action is automatically unfair dismissal if:
- it takes place within twelve weeks of the employee commencing industrial action;
- - it occurs after this 12 week period but the employee had returned to work before the end of the 12 weeks; or
- - it occurs after this period and the employer has not taken all reasonable steps to resolve the dispute.
Strike ends on June 9th so some protection exists for employees who have taken IA. However, British Airways also has rights to protect it from damage. It can sack any employee in BREACH OF CONTRACT. It then could be bought before a court for unfair dismissal. IT CAN , HOWEVER , Terminate or amend contracts for Some Other Substantial Reason, like survival of the trading status of the company. Any future strike MUST NOT BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY
to any previous strike as then the employer can dismiss employees without legal recourse.
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Sporran
Have rosters been wiped yet - if not it must be imminent.
).
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Indeed ottergirl. As this strike is 20 days (23 effectively) I wonder what June rosters will look like for the first 9 days (EF)? I am guessing we may all have lots of SBY's up to the 9th June at least. 
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No, I think the June rosters will be produced as usual by Carmen (they will already be running the bids) so there won't be anymore standby than usual. BA need to assume that the strike won't go ahead in this case so that they are prepared if it doesn't. What will happen though is that your trips will disappear as they get allocated to wet-lease crews and you'll end up with availables at short notice. Will we get any flights? There weren't many short-haul flights last time as they had already been subbed but will BA feel braver this time and rely on more crew reporting for work?
See you in the TV room! Perhaps we could get samosas delivered there as well!
See you in the TV room! Perhaps we could get samosas delivered there as well!
Bev Maker
May I ask: What opinions were you expecting, 100% agreement with the BASSA point of view or 100% agreement with the BA point of view?
As for CRM being "dead in the water", is this a unilateral decision you have made?
As for CRM being "dead in the water", is this a unilateral decision you have made?
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Willie Walsh Colleague Forum 12 May 2010
Willie said that we have got to stop competing internally. We are facing the most threatening period of industrial action. Also, volcanic ash remains a significant risk.
It was important to know that Unite will not close down BA. The operational schedule would be similar to the last strike. All flights would operate at LGW and LCY and there would be more 747s as volunteers had been trained on 747s and 777s.
He categorically denied the statement on Monday from Unite that he had rejected an approach by the union over the weekend. He said that there had been no contact.
He said that Unite represented not only cabin crew but others, and he thanked Unite members and reps for what they had done.
But Unite, representing cabin crew, has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. Every time an issue was addressed, another arose. He said he would give staff travel back if this were the only issue, but he believes that it isn't.
On the disciplinary cases, he said that bullying an harassment would not be tolerated, and a large number of disciplinary cases started before February 2010 - before the strikes. There were 49 such cases of which 23 were ongoing and 28 concluded. The results were:
5 no further action
3 referred back to management (not serious)
13 final written warning
2 final written warning and demotion
5 dismissed
Furthermore, he said that he had never intervened in disciplinary cases and would not do so. Union officials had asked him to do so.
In addition, two people had been dismissed from IFCE for non-bullying and harassment. One case was that of Duncan Holley. He said that he would not normally refer to individual cases but Holley had gone public and he wanted to put his case.
He said that Unite had unilaterally withdrawn from negotiations last December, so union reps were rostered to work. Holley had refused to work on a number of occasions and was sacked.
He was asked about the £10m difference between between BA and Unite and did it make sense to have costly strikes over this. He said that there was a bigger difference. BA needed to make permanent savings, not the temporary ones offered by Unite.
He was asked about the big vote in the ballot which rejected the offer. He said that the ballot was not fair as crew had to submit their name, staff number and union membership details when casting their vote. These were intimidatory tactics which were intended to deter crew from voting in favour of the deal.
He said that Tony Woodley had told him to his face that the BA offer met all concerns except staff travel and disciplinary cases.
He was asked about whether crew who had gone on strike but now worked through a strike period would get their staff travel back. Striking crew would lose money during their rostered period after which their rosters would become variable. He condemned elements of Unite who seemed hellbent on destruction. He reiterated that strikers who worked would not get their staff travel back.
He went on to say that there would be more long-hauls during the strikes and would make full use of the volunteer cabin crew. Furthermore, he was now seriously considering hiring cabin crew from outside BA.
He was asked about the possibility of compulsory redundancy. He said that he does not think it is needed and would be looking for growth, such as getting the 747s back from the desert.
He was asked about the impact of the strikes on the Iberia merger. He said that Iberia fully supports what he is doing.
He was asked about the 12-week protection period and impact of the onboard service if a resolution is not found. He explained that strikers cannot be legally sacked in this period. He also said that performance shortcomingd woiuld be addressed.
It was important to know that Unite will not close down BA. The operational schedule would be similar to the last strike. All flights would operate at LGW and LCY and there would be more 747s as volunteers had been trained on 747s and 777s.
He categorically denied the statement on Monday from Unite that he had rejected an approach by the union over the weekend. He said that there had been no contact.
He said that Unite represented not only cabin crew but others, and he thanked Unite members and reps for what they had done.
But Unite, representing cabin crew, has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. Every time an issue was addressed, another arose. He said he would give staff travel back if this were the only issue, but he believes that it isn't.
On the disciplinary cases, he said that bullying an harassment would not be tolerated, and a large number of disciplinary cases started before February 2010 - before the strikes. There were 49 such cases of which 23 were ongoing and 28 concluded. The results were:
5 no further action
3 referred back to management (not serious)
13 final written warning
2 final written warning and demotion
5 dismissed
Furthermore, he said that he had never intervened in disciplinary cases and would not do so. Union officials had asked him to do so.
In addition, two people had been dismissed from IFCE for non-bullying and harassment. One case was that of Duncan Holley. He said that he would not normally refer to individual cases but Holley had gone public and he wanted to put his case.
He said that Unite had unilaterally withdrawn from negotiations last December, so union reps were rostered to work. Holley had refused to work on a number of occasions and was sacked.
He was asked about the £10m difference between between BA and Unite and did it make sense to have costly strikes over this. He said that there was a bigger difference. BA needed to make permanent savings, not the temporary ones offered by Unite.
He was asked about the big vote in the ballot which rejected the offer. He said that the ballot was not fair as crew had to submit their name, staff number and union membership details when casting their vote. These were intimidatory tactics which were intended to deter crew from voting in favour of the deal.
He said that Tony Woodley had told him to his face that the BA offer met all concerns except staff travel and disciplinary cases.
He was asked about whether crew who had gone on strike but now worked through a strike period would get their staff travel back. Striking crew would lose money during their rostered period after which their rosters would become variable. He condemned elements of Unite who seemed hellbent on destruction. He reiterated that strikers who worked would not get their staff travel back.
He went on to say that there would be more long-hauls during the strikes and would make full use of the volunteer cabin crew. Furthermore, he was now seriously considering hiring cabin crew from outside BA.
He was asked about the possibility of compulsory redundancy. He said that he does not think it is needed and would be looking for growth, such as getting the 747s back from the desert.
He was asked about the impact of the strikes on the Iberia merger. He said that Iberia fully supports what he is doing.
He was asked about the 12-week protection period and impact of the onboard service if a resolution is not found. He explained that strikers cannot be legally sacked in this period. He also said that performance shortcomingd woiuld be addressed.
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I suppose the Airbus and 747 First Officers are trying on their pinnies again, only that if it wasn't for our Flight Crew colleagues sticking their noses into our business, the dispute would have been over long ago. Surely they must realise that the savings required for the war that Willie is waging on the cabin crew, cannot be recouped from them alone. If the cabin crew lose this battle, watch Willie roll over all departments and erase their existing contracts and pension rights. What an own goal!
The departments where the volunteers usually work must be stretched to the limit as their colleagues go off flying. And after 23 days of strike action, will that job still be there?
Walsh's downfall when the history of this dispute is written up and discussed in lectures about industrial relations will focuson one issue. The big mistake by Willie was not only to try and win all the points, but at the same time humiliate the workforce and stick the boot in. His actions will ensure a fight to the death, as now principle and dignity is at stake.
The departments where the volunteers usually work must be stretched to the limit as their colleagues go off flying. And after 23 days of strike action, will that job still be there?
Walsh's downfall when the history of this dispute is written up and discussed in lectures about industrial relations will focuson one issue. The big mistake by Willie was not only to try and win all the points, but at the same time humiliate the workforce and stick the boot in. His actions will ensure a fight to the death, as now principle and dignity is at stake.
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CRM has evolved into a `cuddly , fluffy , tree hugging ` concept where everyone has to get on with everyone.It should get back to basics.It evelved after the Kegworth crash where the crew did not querry that the incorrect engine had been shut done even though they could see flames coming from the other one.
I can`t see that the basics regarding CRM changing (ie you will still inform the CSD or Captain that there is a safety or security issue after all it is your life as well) but as to everyone getting on in a social way I agree that has probably changed forever.The two should not be confused.
I can`t see that the basics regarding CRM changing (ie you will still inform the CSD or Captain that there is a safety or security issue after all it is your life as well) but as to everyone getting on in a social way I agree that has probably changed forever.The two should not be confused.
you will still inform the CSD or Captain that there is a safety or security issue
Fume Event,
The lies and mis-information that have 'spouted' from bassa ARE my interest.
These lies and damn lies from a bunch of self-serving, greedy and power-crazed reps have directly threatened MY job, MY family, MY livelihood and that of every other colleague in BA who looked at the big picture.
This is the big picture of the biggest financial meltdown in living memory - which bassa said was only a temporary problem and would therefore only offer a temporary solution. Since they thought that PWC were in cahoots with BA they did not avail themselves of the opportunity of seeing the real financial picture. The total arrogance of this bunch of prats to question the financial results of a company such as PWC - and to infer that they were only doing BAs bidding ..............................
It is right and proper that every BA employee (except strikers) is willing to get involved to keep OUR airline going.
The main shame for me is that all cabin crew will be lumped together by the public!!
I still hope with all my heart that WW ensures that non-strikers, who have 'done their bit' to keep BA going, are recognised and offered much more than those self-serving strikers - a lot of which would rather see BA go bust that give one inch.
The lies and mis-information that have 'spouted' from bassa ARE my interest.
These lies and damn lies from a bunch of self-serving, greedy and power-crazed reps have directly threatened MY job, MY family, MY livelihood and that of every other colleague in BA who looked at the big picture.
This is the big picture of the biggest financial meltdown in living memory - which bassa said was only a temporary problem and would therefore only offer a temporary solution. Since they thought that PWC were in cahoots with BA they did not avail themselves of the opportunity of seeing the real financial picture. The total arrogance of this bunch of prats to question the financial results of a company such as PWC - and to infer that they were only doing BAs bidding ..............................
It is right and proper that every BA employee (except strikers) is willing to get involved to keep OUR airline going.
The main shame for me is that all cabin crew will be lumped together by the public!!
I still hope with all my heart that WW ensures that non-strikers, who have 'done their bit' to keep BA going, are recognised and offered much more than those self-serving strikers - a lot of which would rather see BA go bust that give one inch.
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Fume event,
Lots of us can't understand why you think you have any chance of gaining anything through this further strike action?
On the final day of the last strike period, 73% of crew turned up for work. The same will happen next week, but there are many more volunteer crew now available too, which as BA has already stated in public, will mean we'll fly the vast majority of the longhaul schedule whilst operating to every destination on the shorthaul network too. Gatwick will run as normal of course. As the days go by, your support will wain yet further, and the schedule will grow even bigger.
I predict by the end of May, we'll be running an almost normal schedule, and those crew who are still on strike will be staring down the barrel of losing an entire month's pay.
How can all of that possibly be considered a sensible step forward by BASSA and their members?
Lots of us can't understand why you think you have any chance of gaining anything through this further strike action?
On the final day of the last strike period, 73% of crew turned up for work. The same will happen next week, but there are many more volunteer crew now available too, which as BA has already stated in public, will mean we'll fly the vast majority of the longhaul schedule whilst operating to every destination on the shorthaul network too. Gatwick will run as normal of course. As the days go by, your support will wain yet further, and the schedule will grow even bigger.
I predict by the end of May, we'll be running an almost normal schedule, and those crew who are still on strike will be staring down the barrel of losing an entire month's pay.
How can all of that possibly be considered a sensible step forward by BASSA and their members?
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Bassa VS BA
As a PSR with BA, I am extremely worried about my job. I am no longer a union member -
BA pay my wages, NOT bassa. What on earth is a 3 week strike going to achieve ? I am so fed up with the whole thing. Dont know what else to say really.
BA pay my wages, NOT bassa. What on earth is a 3 week strike going to achieve ? I am so fed up with the whole thing. Dont know what else to say really.