British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Some people appear to be unaware of the quantitive and qualitative differences between the PPRuNe and the BASSA websites.
While bombast and b^llsh>t may be de rigeur in "the other place", PPRuNe prefers reason and logic.
Until people absorb that, may I remind us all that feeding trolls keeps them coming back?
While bombast and b^llsh>t may be de rigeur in "the other place", PPRuNe prefers reason and logic.
Until people absorb that, may I remind us all that feeding trolls keeps them coming back?
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Juan O
Have a little look at this link from the TUC and see how many names on that Guardian letter are on that page too.
Trades Union Congress - Support for EFCA
I'm sorry that thousands of postings have failed to convince you of BASSA failings on YOUR behalf.
Have a little look at this link from the TUC and see how many names on that Guardian letter are on that page too.
Trades Union Congress - Support for EFCA
I'm sorry that thousands of postings have failed to convince you of BASSA failings on YOUR behalf.
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flight crew and passengers who regard us as being guilty by association? Is this what we have to put up with when we come on board?
Passengers (who pay the salaries of ALL of the company's staff, from the Chairman on down) are totally fed up with all the cr*p that has been showered on them by BASSA leadership and - by extension the CC who are members of thst union.
Unless and until non-BASSA CC are allowed to wear a "badge of disassociation" all of us will, as Bridchen put it, be regarded as "guilty by association".
Until that happens the punters cannot distinguish between pro-strike cabin crew or any other shade of the BA political spectrum.
Tough? Yes. Frustrating? Yes. But that's the unpleasant reality.
Meanwhile, BASSA leadership knows this and is doubtless revelling in the discomfort and unpleasantness it is causing.
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 12th May 2010 at 09:00.
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From the Department of Employment.
The Consequences of taking Industrial Action
"Employees who take industrial action will know that there may be damaging financial consequences for them, since they are unlikely to receive any pay if they withdraw their labour. They should also be aware that they are putting their jobs at risk.
An employer may take various measures, up to and including dismissal , against any employee who takes industrial action."
How does taking industrial action affect an employee's right to claim unfair dismissal.
"Dismissal for taking part in 'protected' industrial action starting on or after 24 April 2000.
Where an employee began taking industrial action on or after 24 April 2000, it is unfair to dismiss him, unless his industrial action lasts for more than 8 weeks and the employer has taken such procedural steps as are reasonable to try and resolve the dispute".
For the rest go to
http://www.delni.gov.uk/er27.pdf
The Consequences of taking Industrial Action
"Employees who take industrial action will know that there may be damaging financial consequences for them, since they are unlikely to receive any pay if they withdraw their labour. They should also be aware that they are putting their jobs at risk.
An employer may take various measures, up to and including dismissal , against any employee who takes industrial action."
How does taking industrial action affect an employee's right to claim unfair dismissal.
"Dismissal for taking part in 'protected' industrial action starting on or after 24 April 2000.
Where an employee began taking industrial action on or after 24 April 2000, it is unfair to dismiss him, unless his industrial action lasts for more than 8 weeks and the employer has taken such procedural steps as are reasonable to try and resolve the dispute".
For the rest go to
http://www.delni.gov.uk/er27.pdf
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BASSA numbers dropping
seems they're processing the April subscription list from BA payroll as the BASSA website tonight reports a drop of around 80 members to 9964. Earlier this week it was 10050ish.
• BASSA• About us
• BASSA• About us
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Hardly the mass exodus you would expect considering the untold damage this diseased union has selfishly and arrogantly inflicted on us all for so long now-
It would appear, unfortunately, that the VAST MAJORITY of BA cabincrew continue to pay their fees to the job-wrecking bassa, the business-wrecking unite and by implication the nation-wrecking labour party. 10,000 members still?!?! Hardly seems like many cc have had an epiphany or even a glimpse of a moment of realisation/sanity.....
Maybe David Cameron can carry on where Maggie Thatcher left off an ensure that these hostage-taking unions do not continue to wildly overstep the mandate given to them by a sensible society, destroying our futures whilst gleefully feeding their own egos and lining their own pockets with blood money from the totally avoidable but none-the-less deliberately inflicted misfortune and misery of the masses.
It would appear, unfortunately, that the VAST MAJORITY of BA cabincrew continue to pay their fees to the job-wrecking bassa, the business-wrecking unite and by implication the nation-wrecking labour party. 10,000 members still?!?! Hardly seems like many cc have had an epiphany or even a glimpse of a moment of realisation/sanity.....
Maybe David Cameron can carry on where Maggie Thatcher left off an ensure that these hostage-taking unions do not continue to wildly overstep the mandate given to them by a sensible society, destroying our futures whilst gleefully feeding their own egos and lining their own pockets with blood money from the totally avoidable but none-the-less deliberately inflicted misfortune and misery of the masses.
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A rather jaundiced view,flybymerchant.I can accept the current situation prompts criticism from those who are affected by BASSAs stance.In my experience BASSA have provided many years of protection and representation.The envy of many within BA and outside.When Rod Eddington made that ominous remark in 05,"theres only one man for the job",BASSA would obviously have to step up to the plate.They have done that admirably,particularly in the face of the level of misrepresentation levelled at them and the Cabin Crew by the "only man for the job".Im afraid Mr Walsh,s style of leadership is a thing of the past.The John Lewis style of leadership is the one which will put the airline back to the forefront.The sooner the BA board recognise and embrace the need for change the sooner the dividends return.
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The John Lewis style of leadership is the one which will put the airline back to the forefront
We must ensure this debacle is a watershed for IR in BA. That means commitment from BOTH sides, and that means cabin crew members engaging on a personal level, not relying on Mother Hen to tell them how the world is. Even now CC are en-masse only listening to Mother Hen, unaware that BASSA have betrayed the trust of those they are there to serve, with their woeful representation of their members.
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I think Willie Walsh's style of leadership is indeed the only style that will get the required savings out of BASSA. Whether that style is outdated or not? I'd say it is for most companies, but the union and crew gets the management it deserves. Perhaps if the union altered the way it did business, BA would be able to do the same?
Listening to 5 live yesterday; to hear a BASSA rep say that he believes this will all end badly - says it all for me really. I think Willie Walsh has been remarkably patient up until this point but then again, he is one of only a few who actually knows what is coming BASSA's way. He clearly has a plan and believes that patience will cost the company the least amount of money and ultimately leave it in competitive form. I have every confidence that the man is the correct one for the job, and that is why I fear not for the long term survival of the company, despite the fact that so many people are trying to destroy it. I fear for the cabin crew though. There is no way this action is going to do anything other than make their eventual terms and conditions worse.
My advice to BASSA and the cabin crew? Standing by your principles is one thing, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is another.
Listening to 5 live yesterday; to hear a BASSA rep say that he believes this will all end badly - says it all for me really. I think Willie Walsh has been remarkably patient up until this point but then again, he is one of only a few who actually knows what is coming BASSA's way. He clearly has a plan and believes that patience will cost the company the least amount of money and ultimately leave it in competitive form. I have every confidence that the man is the correct one for the job, and that is why I fear not for the long term survival of the company, despite the fact that so many people are trying to destroy it. I fear for the cabin crew though. There is no way this action is going to do anything other than make their eventual terms and conditions worse.
My advice to BASSA and the cabin crew? Standing by your principles is one thing, but cutting off your nose to spite your face is another.
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A'throttle I think some of that is out of date. The Employment Relations Act 2004? is the latest I could find (and amends the TULRA 1992).
Employment Relations Act 2004 (c. 24)
26-3-7B gives twelve weeks.
As I understand it, the only protection is that any dismissals before this are automatically deemed unfair. On one of the radio show phone ins, a partner in an employment law firm pointed out that BA could have sacked all the strikers.
Employment Relations Act 2004 (c. 24)
26-3-7B gives twelve weeks.
As I understand it, the only protection is that any dismissals before this are automatically deemed unfair. On one of the radio show phone ins, a partner in an employment law firm pointed out that BA could have sacked all the strikers.
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Miamimike - I have to respectfully disagree.
Willie Walsh's leadership is a thing of the past?? Seriously? i think most would argue it is the way of the future.
WW has made a huge impact on our cost base, structural organisation, and potential for future profitability, which are elements that all companies are placing most of their emphasis on in these difficult times.
I think the vast, vast majority of non-CC staff (and those not brainwashed by BASSA), the shareholders, and the majority of the public, would be quick to voice their respect for how well WW has delt with this shambolic act of trade unionism.
No doubt you will reply to this saying that he has divided the workforce - which is true. But given the choice between a divided workforce, and no workforce at all - he had only one option. These trade unions have absolutely no place in a modern company, which is why WW has done this, for the good of all employees, and vowed to change the industrial relations framework at BA.
John Lewis, being a partnership, requires all employees to respect and support those who lead the company. Aside from the obvious reasons, BA's striking cabin crew and their TU are themselves the biggest obstacle to that ever happening in this company.
Willie Walsh's leadership is a thing of the past?? Seriously? i think most would argue it is the way of the future.
WW has made a huge impact on our cost base, structural organisation, and potential for future profitability, which are elements that all companies are placing most of their emphasis on in these difficult times.
I think the vast, vast majority of non-CC staff (and those not brainwashed by BASSA), the shareholders, and the majority of the public, would be quick to voice their respect for how well WW has delt with this shambolic act of trade unionism.
No doubt you will reply to this saying that he has divided the workforce - which is true. But given the choice between a divided workforce, and no workforce at all - he had only one option. These trade unions have absolutely no place in a modern company, which is why WW has done this, for the good of all employees, and vowed to change the industrial relations framework at BA.
John Lewis, being a partnership, requires all employees to respect and support those who lead the company. Aside from the obvious reasons, BA's striking cabin crew and their TU are themselves the biggest obstacle to that ever happening in this company.
The long and the short of it is that there are still nearly 10,000 cabin crew paying subscriptions every month to a union which is doing it's very best to bring the company down. A great many of that 10,000 worked during the last period of strikes yet continue to support BASSA financially and therefore maintain their position as representative body for CC. I hear lots of concern about what will happen to a lot of very pleasant CC who do not agree with the current union position yet many of these same CC continue to prop up a malignant presence in the company. They cannot completely escape responsibility for the current predicament.
If all so called moderate crew had resigned from the union then BASSA could no longer to represent the CC and we would not be in this position. Yes, union representation is important but at this moment survival of the company is paramount.
If WW does take the nuclear option and issue new contracts under SOSR then instead of the wailing and gnashing of teeth, many CC who disagreed with BASSA yet still paid their money every month should take a good hard look at themselves.
If all so called moderate crew had resigned from the union then BASSA could no longer to represent the CC and we would not be in this position. Yes, union representation is important but at this moment survival of the company is paramount.
If WW does take the nuclear option and issue new contracts under SOSR then instead of the wailing and gnashing of teeth, many CC who disagreed with BASSA yet still paid their money every month should take a good hard look at themselves.
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John Lewis style of leadership
Do John Lewis employees require an extra two days off (with allowances) if they have to stay in the store for an extra couple of hours one day?
And don't talk to me about agreements - many other parts of the airline, (and most businesses out there I suspect), exceed agreements every day to make the operation work.
If BASSA would encourage the 'John Lewis' work ethic in its members, the 'John Lewis' relationship with management might be possible.
Sadly BASSA's day to day advice to its members is as far away from this ethos as it's possible to be.
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seems they're processing the April subscription list from BA payroll as the BASSA website tonight reports a drop of around 80 members to 9964. Earlier this week it was 10050ish.
The Iwo Jima pastiche picture remains, though.
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Section 98 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 requires an employer to prove the reason for dismissal being either proscribed reasons or for “some other substantial reason of a kind such as to justify the dismissal of an employee holding the position which the employee held”. The proscribed reasons in 98(2) are capability, conduct, redundancy or the employee’s inability to carry out the role without contravening an enactment
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Oh Dave, don't start that nonsense again!
The £200 isn't an incentive for crew, it is a deterent for the company. It only applies to long range flights where crew rest is a legal requirement for the flight to continue to operate. I can tell you it is hard work trying to rest with the lights on full, mask or not. If, when reported, the company did some maintenance to the lights it wouldn't cost them anything. Unless under the internal market system it is cheaper to compensate crew rather than pay engineering?
And the rest, well Bassa have accepted they are outdated and have no relevance anymore.
I wish this dispute to be resolved, and quickly, but dragging up old arguments is inflamatory and unhelpful. Recent articles in the Independent, the Guardian and the FT suggest that now is the time for Walsh to check his ego and stop being so macho. It will now cost the company very very little to stop the waste of an estimate £150m that the latest strikes are estimated to cost.
The £200 isn't an incentive for crew, it is a deterent for the company. It only applies to long range flights where crew rest is a legal requirement for the flight to continue to operate. I can tell you it is hard work trying to rest with the lights on full, mask or not. If, when reported, the company did some maintenance to the lights it wouldn't cost them anything. Unless under the internal market system it is cheaper to compensate crew rather than pay engineering?
And the rest, well Bassa have accepted they are outdated and have no relevance anymore.
I wish this dispute to be resolved, and quickly, but dragging up old arguments is inflamatory and unhelpful. Recent articles in the Independent, the Guardian and the FT suggest that now is the time for Walsh to check his ego and stop being so macho. It will now cost the company very very little to stop the waste of an estimate £150m that the latest strikes are estimated to cost.
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A John Lewis model is maybe the only way to go in the future, indeed if we already had it, we wouldn't be in this dispute as the employee council would already have made the savings required. CC would have to accept what the rest of the employees decide together.
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The £200 isn't an incentive for crew, it is a deterent for the company. It only applies to long range flights where crew rest is a legal requirement for the flight to continue to operate. I can tell you it is hard work trying to rest with the lights on full, mask or not. If, when reported, the company did some maintenance to the lights it wouldn't cost them anything. Unless under the internal market system it is cheaper to compensate crew rather than pay engineering?
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A John Lewis model is maybe the only way to go in the future
And even if it were a partnership, the problem over 'imposition' would still exist. Every other BA dept thinks the CC (i.e. BASSA) are intransigent and turning down very favourable offers so even in a partnership model it would be everyone else against BASSA.