British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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gr8balls of fire
Why do you have to be so insulting -yet another arrogant post.
What you fail to realise is that many Cabin Crew are extremely well educated and yes-- we can read!!
Why do you have to be so insulting -yet another arrogant post.
What you fail to realise is that many Cabin Crew are extremely well educated and yes-- we can read!!
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@Realist - Sabena and Swissair actually went bust. BA are not insolvent and cannot simply wind themselves up to resolve a labour dispute. The shareholders (myself included) would be somewhat pissed off with the destruction of their investments and the law would prohibit such a move.
This 5 million a day has to come from somewhere, its not an endless pit of money, at some point you have to draw a line.
BA doesn't have money other than in loans held against its aircraft, don't kid yourself. BA is not money rich by any stretch of the imagination, insolvent is simply a line on a spreadsheet.
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Imposition
Allat,
You will find that the "imposition" was found to be legal as BA made every attempt to negotiate. As an earlier poster memtioned, it was your union who decided by a show of hands not to negotiate.BA's offer was fair and reasonable, unlike the BASSA's rotten leadership.
At the risk of pointing out the obvious you may have noticed the parlous state not only of the airline industry but of the economy as a whole. You and your colleagues are putting thousands of jobs at risk for a minor adjustment to your working lives without loss of pay. Chances are that you will live to regret this decision for longer than you think. There are not many airlines falling over to recruit cabin crew and my guess is that any ex-BA CC will not be too welcome in ANY company.
THINK<
You will find that the "imposition" was found to be legal as BA made every attempt to negotiate. As an earlier poster memtioned, it was your union who decided by a show of hands not to negotiate.BA's offer was fair and reasonable, unlike the BASSA's rotten leadership.
At the risk of pointing out the obvious you may have noticed the parlous state not only of the airline industry but of the economy as a whole. You and your colleagues are putting thousands of jobs at risk for a minor adjustment to your working lives without loss of pay. Chances are that you will live to regret this decision for longer than you think. There are not many airlines falling over to recruit cabin crew and my guess is that any ex-BA CC will not be too welcome in ANY company.
THINK<
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I'm a BA cabin crew member who didn't and won't be going on strike. So how dare some of you brand us all as the same and be willing our jobs to be ripped from us? We can all talk to our colleagues and union, but at the end of the day, those of us who've chosen not to strike have no more influence over them, than I do over any of you as individuals. So why all the vitriol aimed at all of us?
I've heard all about the SLOBS, etc, not to mention some of the terms used in the last couple of pages on this thread, being broadly draped over all our shoulders.
You may regard us all as highly paid idiots, but it is not a one size fits all. Our job is indeed NOT rocket science, but some of us work extremely hard at it, all the same, and not for CSD's wages.Until recently, I was the only source of income for my daughter and myself, and it didn't leave anything left over for much indulgence.
I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm more than happy with my lot. But please, do me and many others a favour, and don't point your gun at us. Thousands of us work extremely hard to keep the customers coming back, and that can sometimes be, in a non-intellectual way, of course, damned challenging.
I've heard all about the SLOBS, etc, not to mention some of the terms used in the last couple of pages on this thread, being broadly draped over all our shoulders.
You may regard us all as highly paid idiots, but it is not a one size fits all. Our job is indeed NOT rocket science, but some of us work extremely hard at it, all the same, and not for CSD's wages.Until recently, I was the only source of income for my daughter and myself, and it didn't leave anything left over for much indulgence.
I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm more than happy with my lot. But please, do me and many others a favour, and don't point your gun at us. Thousands of us work extremely hard to keep the customers coming back, and that can sometimes be, in a non-intellectual way, of course, damned challenging.
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mra4eng
For the money,days off, time off in exotic desinations etc etc !!! Why else?
We do realise how hard it is in the real world? Been there, done that. Earnt lots before too but had to be "on duty" 24 hours! This is much more fun!! But you knew that anyway.
For the money,days off, time off in exotic desinations etc etc !!! Why else?
We do realise how hard it is in the real world? Been there, done that. Earnt lots before too but had to be "on duty" 24 hours! This is much more fun!! But you knew that anyway.
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Allat,
Please provide full details of your understandiing of the changes negotiated by BA Flight Crew.
As someone who's pay packet has dropped by considerably more than 2.61% as a result of those negotiatioins, and has no return of that money forecast, I am interested to see how you view this, from your informed position.
Unless, that is, you are confusing the share options, which were given to BASSA as part of a negotiation last year, I believe it was around about May, and rejected. Subject to operating margins of 10%, I believe. Anyway, maybe that is what you are confusing with getting teh money back. Unless of course you have copy of a clause in the agreement? If so, please post it here, as I would dearly love to see it.
You might remember voting on that. Oh hang on, no you wont, it was soundly rejected, without explantion of the details, at a meeting where a show of hands vote stated "no further negotiations." Oh yes, it's a bit annoying to see all those posts on the BASSA forum wanting WW to "negotiate," isn't it? Bearing that in mind?
Maybe you should ask BASSA why they refused to offer you the same. Those options in no way makes up for the loss of salary, but you perhaps won't be able to rationalise that one out, being merely another BASSA forum troll with no agenda other than to shore up your own inadequate union. BUt the headlines are good, aren't they, and you can go back and say how tough you have been.
Provide some substance, please.
Please provide full details of your understandiing of the changes negotiated by BA Flight Crew.
As someone who's pay packet has dropped by considerably more than 2.61% as a result of those negotiatioins, and has no return of that money forecast, I am interested to see how you view this, from your informed position.
Unless, that is, you are confusing the share options, which were given to BASSA as part of a negotiation last year, I believe it was around about May, and rejected. Subject to operating margins of 10%, I believe. Anyway, maybe that is what you are confusing with getting teh money back. Unless of course you have copy of a clause in the agreement? If so, please post it here, as I would dearly love to see it.
You might remember voting on that. Oh hang on, no you wont, it was soundly rejected, without explantion of the details, at a meeting where a show of hands vote stated "no further negotiations." Oh yes, it's a bit annoying to see all those posts on the BASSA forum wanting WW to "negotiate," isn't it? Bearing that in mind?
Maybe you should ask BASSA why they refused to offer you the same. Those options in no way makes up for the loss of salary, but you perhaps won't be able to rationalise that one out, being merely another BASSA forum troll with no agenda other than to shore up your own inadequate union. BUt the headlines are good, aren't they, and you can go back and say how tough you have been.
Provide some substance, please.
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Arrogant posts
Allat,
Please explain what was arrogant or insulting about my post.
If you are unable to conduct a reasonable discussion than perhaps it would be better for you to stick to posting somewhere more appropriate for your sensibilities.
There are other posters here who are BASSA supporters and they are able to articulate their opinions and debate with the majority of us who oppose strike action.
Noone is insulting you by taking an opposing view!!!
Please explain what was arrogant or insulting about my post.
If you are unable to conduct a reasonable discussion than perhaps it would be better for you to stick to posting somewhere more appropriate for your sensibilities.
There are other posters here who are BASSA supporters and they are able to articulate their opinions and debate with the majority of us who oppose strike action.
Noone is insulting you by taking an opposing view!!!
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Satan
"Subject to operating margins of 10%!!!" Thats what I referred to earlier - we had no problem taking a hit providing we could share in the success of our company at a later date. It was OK for the flight crew to negotiate such a deal but you seem to have a problem with us having a similar deal??
Remember - our problem was imposition- please keep up!
"Subject to operating margins of 10%!!!" Thats what I referred to earlier - we had no problem taking a hit providing we could share in the success of our company at a later date. It was OK for the flight crew to negotiate such a deal but you seem to have a problem with us having a similar deal??
Remember - our problem was imposition- please keep up!
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And the other points, Allat? Come on, don't be selective, you're the one trolling your single agenda on here. Have the cojones to engage.
You were offered the same deal. Your union chose to ignore that offer and not even highlight it to you. So come on, why was that? As to imposition, you were told that should no deal be able to be negotiated, then certain terms would be imposed. As were all the other unions. Yours chose to stonewall. Why?
You were offered the same deal. Your union chose to ignore that offer and not even highlight it to you. So come on, why was that? As to imposition, you were told that should no deal be able to be negotiated, then certain terms would be imposed. As were all the other unions. Yours chose to stonewall. Why?
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In ref to Satan and share deal:
Yes, I believe our union did try to stonewall us. I was a full BASSA supporter until relatively recently. I've had first hand experience of the union lying to my face, as it were, in an email, that resulted in myself and the rest of my cabin crew being stuck in a shut Mexico City for 4 nights, with one used face mask and a shared bottle of gin. I wouldn't have minded if it was a crate. So they are more than capable of withholding information. THAT is very annoying. And I wasn't aware of the share deal. This is no surprise. I know the management can be economical with the truth too, but I'm not going to be thrown in the water with a weight tied to my foot by a union hierarchy that have an invested interest in a major source of extra income via our subs.
Yes, I believe our union did try to stonewall us. I was a full BASSA supporter until relatively recently. I've had first hand experience of the union lying to my face, as it were, in an email, that resulted in myself and the rest of my cabin crew being stuck in a shut Mexico City for 4 nights, with one used face mask and a shared bottle of gin. I wouldn't have minded if it was a crate. So they are more than capable of withholding information. THAT is very annoying. And I wasn't aware of the share deal. This is no surprise. I know the management can be economical with the truth too, but I'm not going to be thrown in the water with a weight tied to my foot by a union hierarchy that have an invested interest in a major source of extra income via our subs.
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Allat, I am genuinely curious and I promise not to criticize/comment your response but I have two questions for you as a supporter of IA;
1. If this dispute is about imposition, in hindsight how should it have BASSA/WW handled it?
2. If 2 strikes / 7 days didn't force WW to the negotiation table because everything worked quite well despite the strikes, why will 4 x 5day strikes be different. Isn't the definition of stupid 'Doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results'?
Thank you, DM
1. If this dispute is about imposition, in hindsight how should it have BASSA/WW handled it?
2. If 2 strikes / 7 days didn't force WW to the negotiation table because everything worked quite well despite the strikes, why will 4 x 5day strikes be different. Isn't the definition of stupid 'Doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results'?
Thank you, DM
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Customer comments
Here is a selection of postings from the Times online from some very p...d off customers. CC beware...every action has a consequence!!
V C wrote:
I will never fly BA again, I'm sure there are many BA staff members who don't support Unite's actions and that is unfortunate. However, given the contempt that Unite and it's members are showing the public who indirectly fund their wages I see no alternative but to "invest" my airfare elsewhere.
Good luck, Luddites!!!
May 10, 2010 12:00 AM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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John T wrote:
They just won't be happy until every single last customer hates them and their company is bankrupt - a very real prospect they seem utterly oblivious to.
May 9, 2010 11:51 PM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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Permalink Douglas Bruce wrote:
You would have thought that the volcano could have done their work for them. It makes you wonder what planet Messrs Woodley & Co. are living on...
As it is, many people are giving BA - and not just BA - a miss this summer.
May 9, 2010 11:46 PM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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Permalink Eric Cartman wrote:
These people should consider themselves lucky that they have a well-paid job,
(at least by industry standards,) in the current economic climate!!
V C wrote:
I will never fly BA again, I'm sure there are many BA staff members who don't support Unite's actions and that is unfortunate. However, given the contempt that Unite and it's members are showing the public who indirectly fund their wages I see no alternative but to "invest" my airfare elsewhere.
Good luck, Luddites!!!
May 10, 2010 12:00 AM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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John T wrote: They just won't be happy until every single last customer hates them and their company is bankrupt - a very real prospect they seem utterly oblivious to.
May 9, 2010 11:51 PM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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Douglas Bruce wrote: You would have thought that the volcano could have done their work for them. It makes you wonder what planet Messrs Woodley & Co. are living on...
As it is, many people are giving BA - and not just BA - a miss this summer.
May 9, 2010 11:46 PM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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Eric Cartman wrote: These people should consider themselves lucky that they have a well-paid job,
(at least by industry standards,) in the current economic climate!!
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Allat. These are not arrogant posts, because you do not agree with them. These strikes will change nothing. Bassa is not going to get what it wants. To state the obvious, the world has changed. I really fear alienation for cabin crew as you have very little support from other departments. I also think the public backlash will be greater this time because of the length of strikes and the fact we have an on going Ash problem.
Last edited by BentleyH; 10th May 2010 at 23:45.
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BentleyH - I'm a non-striking BASSA member, and I do not believe that crew should be victimised by other departments. They may shun us, but we really have little contact with them. What is more disturbing is the split between the cabin crew and flight crew communities. I'm sure you care little for our company, but from the behaviour of some of your colleagues towards us, regardless of our stance (it would seem it's a one size fits all) and as I've read here, as a virgin PPRuNer, pilots' utter contempt for us and derogatory manner in talking about us, has created an unmendable chasm.
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Max Tow, what happens is if you're down route, you carry on working. If you do a back to back and you are operating the 2nd half out of LHR on a strike day, you do not operate that 2nd half if you intend to strike. There are no mixes of volunteers and striking crew. It's an impossibility. Trips between strike dates do not require volunteers as they are already fully rostered.
Just by way of a post-script to my last post:
No volunteers need to report for duties between strike dates as the original rosters for non-strike dates are fully manned with regular crew. The animosity is definitely for volunteers, and there is no mix of them with striking crew, for obvious reasons. Some volunteers have been on board during the volcanic ash disruption, but there were no incidents. Striking crew are not savage animals. We have very great differences in opinion, but the vast majority of us do not end up in fisticuffs.
There is also a big problem with using the volunteers. The cabin service in premium cabins is actually the economy service and product. It's not up to scratch and most premium passengers do not want a 1/4 bottle of Chateau Brixton served to them when paying a premium fare.
Just by way of a post-script to my last post:
No volunteers need to report for duties between strike dates as the original rosters for non-strike dates are fully manned with regular crew. The animosity is definitely for volunteers, and there is no mix of them with striking crew, for obvious reasons. Some volunteers have been on board during the volcanic ash disruption, but there were no incidents. Striking crew are not savage animals. We have very great differences in opinion, but the vast majority of us do not end up in fisticuffs.
There is also a big problem with using the volunteers. The cabin service in premium cabins is actually the economy service and product. It's not up to scratch and most premium passengers do not want a 1/4 bottle of Chateau Brixton served to them when paying a premium fare.