British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Human Factor]

The date you are on about is when the 12 week strike mandate expires -when the mandate expires there is no legal protection from striking - UNITE will then have to re-ballot to carry on with industrial action that is all that date means.

It is not a date when BA can just 'sack' the strikers

Correct. However, it is also the point at which BA can serve notice on existing contracts if it chooses to do so. That will effectively render any subsequent ballot irrelevant as the law allows BA to assume that anyone who fails to sign a new contract has resigned.

Don't say you haven't been warned.

[Pornpants1]

wwcrewmember

Going On Strike - Safe Workers (UK)

I'll leave the barristers to argue about what constitutes "genuine attempts"

However, you can dismiss an employee after the 12 week period if you can show you have made genuine attempts to negotiate. This must include the proper use of any joint disputes resolution procedure.

[wwcrewmember]

Human Factor

They can indeed - however I do believe there is a due process which they have to undertake - hence 90 days - also they cannot discriminate between those who went on strike and those who did not

[Juan Tugoh]

If there are any crewmembers still on strike when the mandate runs out they can be dismissed for gross misconduct - absenting themselves from the workplace with no reason. The protection of the law only lasts for 12 weeks, after this period any striker would be in breach of contract and suffer the same fate as Duncan Holley. As it is a dismissal for a disciplinary reason the normal notice periods would not necessarily apply. I'm not suggesting that BA will do this; it would be an option should the strike continue beyond the 12 week period.

If UNITE wished to conduct further IA after the 12 week period they would need to re-ballot, and give the required notice of IA.

BA also have the option to give 3 months notice of change of contract - as BASSA's barrister admitted in court. So BA could in theory issue everyone with new contracts to be effective in 3 months, again I'm not suggesting they would.

What they cannot do is discriminate against the strikers, so all contracts would have to be re-issued not just the strikers.

UNITE and BASSA have a lot of thinking to do this weekend. Should they elect to conduct a 20 day strike and it is ineffective, what do they do then?

[Hand Solo]

BA can terminate your employment with minimum notice required by your contract after June 12th if you remain on strike. I'd expect them to give all sacked crew 3 months basic pay in lieu of notice and revoke their IDs from day one. And no pay if you don't return your uniform.

[Pornpants1]

Unfair dismissal claims may also be brought if you discriminate between employees by dismissing some of those who have taken part in the action but not others or if you've re-employed some employees but not others within 3 months of the dismissal. However, an employee dismissed whilst taking unofficial action cannot claim unfair dismissal.

Again from the link I gave out earlier. Now, I am no solicitor but I recognise plenty of gray areas when I see them, remember BASSA told its members not to worry about staff travel, and look what has happened! Plenty of crew telling anyone that will listen that its against the law, but even BASSA retained chambers admit there is no case law, pertinent to the staff travel question.

It just suprises me that the 30 or is it 90 days notice has not even been touched upon, cabin crew need to be aware of where this could end up

[License to Fly]

interesting month June ...

the recruitment is still going strong, with capacity for 60+ a day ... June could be an interesting month

If BA have to issue all crew with new contracts, it will be hard/a bit unfair on the non strikers, but BA will be in a stronger position, which is what counts.

Employees must remember BA is there to make money, and for no other reason.

[CSDY]

The company seems to be hardening it's position. The final olive branch was the offer of partial reinstatement of staff travel. Unite continues to put unachievable pre-conditions in the way of a settlement. BA is now bracing itself for another damaging strike and will do all it can to operate as near to a full schedule as possible. Those that are foolish enough to follow the Unite mandate could well find themselves at home or at Bedfont while the company carries on it's business without them. Potential strikers could be without pay for a considerable time. The sad thing about all of this is that many will look back and wonder why this dispute had to happen. Even a modest negotiator would have wrapped up a deal for cabin crew by now, which doesn't say much for the BASSA/Unite leadership. The silent majority needs to step up and bring this to an end it's time for the irresponsible within BASSA/Unite to resign while there is something left to negotiate.

[Caribbean Boy]

Silent majority

CSDY wrote:

The silent majority needs to step up and bring this to an end

The last two strikes were broken mainly by the silent majority - the cabin crew who turned up for work. I expect a bigger majority to work through the next strike(s).

[Hotel Mode]

The last two strikes were broken mainly by the silent majority - the cabin crew who turned up for work. I expect a bigger majority to work through the next strike(s).

The question is then raised, why does this "silent majority" keep voting heavily in favour of what they are told by the BASSA leadership when they have no intention of following through (and indeed prior history of not following through)?

Actions have consequences.

[The Blu Riband]

from Going On Strike - Safe Workers (UK)

During Strike Action - Legal Issues
The dismissal of any striking employee during the first 12 weeks of lawfully organised official strike action will be deemed unfair. If, as an employer, you lock out your workforce during this protected period, the lock out days are ignored when calculating the 12 week period. However, you can dismiss an employee after the 12 week period if you can show you have made genuine attempts to negotiate. This must include the proper use of any joint disputes resolution procedure.

Unfair dismissal claims may also be brought if you discriminate between employees by dismissing some of those who have taken part in the action but not others or if you've re-employed some employees but not others within 3 months of the dismissal. However, an employee dismissed whilst taking unofficial action cannot claim unfair dismissal.

Employees who are on strike and their union representatives can legitimately picket their own workplace and are protected from legal action as long as the picketing is peaceful, causes no obstruction, does not intimidate others and there is no damage.

My bold: Doesn't sound very "grey" to me.

[Caribbean Boy]

It seems as if about 5,800 crew voted to reject BA's offer, leaving some 7,500 who voted to accept, did not vote or were ineligible to vote. In other words, a significant majority did not reject BA's offer and will probably work through future strikes.

[CSDY]

"The question is then raised, why does this "silent majority" keep voting heavily in favour of what they are told by the BASSA leadership when they have no intention of following through (and indeed prior history of not following through)"?

• I don't like WW/Bill Francis.
• I don't like my roster.
• I don't like my manager.
• I don't like the man in 16A.
• I've just had an ARI.
• I didn't get CSD.
• I'm scared of my union.
• I'll vote for a strike because of one of the above but I'll come to work because I live outside the UK.
• I hate my job because my union say the company is bullying me.

Anything but the issue which was the subject of the ballot, a modest reduction in crew complements, now long forgotten.
I'm sure there must be moderates among our reps that are wondering where this is going, what is the end game, no job, no pension? The decision makers in BASSA/Unite that have achieved nothing up to now need to do the right thing GO.

[Pornpants1]

The Blu Riband

I posted that for a guideline only, I try not to fall into the same trap as my colleagues and pass information from the internet of as fact but certainly the interpretation of said advice could be very interesting.

I respect everyones right to strike, but I just wish they had the full facts, and that BASSA actually appeared to have a plan, a sense of mission, and an end game, a well thought way out, but from where I sit they possess not one iota of anything sensible, instead they blunder and react from one disaster to another.

Taking some very vulnerable and naive crew with them, as for the militants, they will always believe

[wwcrewmember]

You say you only ever post fact, however can you substantiate your claim below

remember BASSA told its members not to worry about staff travel

I have never been told by BASSA not to worry about Staff Travel FACT

As with the case back in November BASSA are unaware of the actual membership numbers until the company give the the list of payroll deductions sometime today.

BASSA are being ultra-cautious and not risking BA trying to take out another injunction.

A member could quite easily just stop their payroll deduction without informing BASSA - after what happened last December BASSA want to get the facts about the exact numbers having union dues deducted from payroll FACT

Meanwhile the main body of BASSA members are being asked for countless ID requirements, inc part of your NI numbers, etc to even sign up to vote, I just wonder why these hurdles are being put in place???

This is total fabrication - people who had not already registered for access to the BASSA forum got asked to provide this information ( so they could be checked off against the payroll as paid up members) The 'hurdles' as you call then are simply security measures to ensure only paid up members actually voted - FACT

What is the point of you making things up?

[CSDY]

wwcrewmember

Forget how many voted or not, this method of balloting is not secret, having to identify yourself before voting will put many yes voters off. This so called consultative poll was always designed to produce the result that the TU wanted. Why haven't BASSA put any of the proposals from the company to the membership in a proper secret postal ballot with or without a recommendation. Why are they determined to go ahead with more strike dates on the back of a poll that they have controlled through their website. Apparently TonyWoodley thought the deal was a good one, who is making the decisions on our behalf at BASSA/Unite, what is their agenda? Can any BASSA supporters explain?

[wwcrewmember]

Forget how many voted or not, this method of balloting is not secret, having to identify yourself before voting will put many yes voters off. This so called consultative poll was always designed to produce the result that the TU wanted.

And what about the 'Vote' from BA - just a YES button - what a joke

Why are they determined to go ahead with more strike dates on the back of a poll that they have controlled through their website.

Because more members who chose to vote could do so via the website (more than attend a meeting at a racecourse)

Why haven't BASSA put any of the proposals from the company to the membership in a proper secret postal ballot with or without a recommendation.

Because the clock is against them in the 12 week window - a postal ballot takes circa 4 weeks to organise - given that ALL BASSA members are able to access a PC from anywhere in the world and given that a large number live overseas - what is the easiest way?

Nobody forced people to vote - and the turnout was once again excellent

Apparently TonyWoodley thought the deal was a good one

That's not what Woodley said

[CSDY]

wwcrewmember

Woodley's quote was for the consumption of the faithful once the proposal had been rejected by BASSA what did he say in private I wonder.

[Pornpants1]

wwcrewmember, how many signed up members did the BASSA forum have? How many had to sign up in order to vote in the online poll? Are you in a position to know?

Remember 29% of BASSA members failed to vote, perhaps the "security" measures have put them of?

Now now, we all like a little tease.......but only if your female

[wwcrewmember]

Woodley's quote was for the consumption of the faithful once the proposal had been rejected by BASSA what did he say in private I wonder.

Probably along the lines of:

"Hey Willie, yer having a laugh arent yer mate?" Are you'se taking the p*ss or wha?"

My attempt at conveying a scouse accent in writing.

Who knows what he said - fact is who knows what anyone says behind closed doors?