British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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It seems we have a number of new posters who, despite having clicked "agee" when they registered, are not aware of the rules here.
Look at them please, before you post again.
There are also a number of long time posters who suffer from topical amnesia.
You too, check the rules.
Short words: if your post is about the PERSON of your opponent, his/her personal traits/failing/whatevers, that is unacceptable.
If your post contains the words "you are", that is personal and unacceptable.
Kick the ball, not the other player.
* * * * * * * *
If somebody disagrees with you, that is not arrogance, and that is not bullying. It´s called a discussion.
You counter that with arguments, not with pretending you are being martyred.
* * * * * * * *
What happens on other forums falls outside our remit. Discuss it there, not here.
** * * * * * *
The moderators here are CC employed by non British legacy carriers.
We have no stake in this dispute, and our only aim is to provide a open, adult, intimidation- and brainwashing free environment for BA cabin crew to discuss the facts and the implications of their current situation.
Passengers have their own BA thread in the SLF forum and are welcome to participate there. Not here.
Pilots and other currently employed airline staff can contribute here, but only inasmuch as that furthers the exchange of information and the shaping of opinions.
Look at them please, before you post again.
There are also a number of long time posters who suffer from topical amnesia.
You too, check the rules.
Short words: if your post is about the PERSON of your opponent, his/her personal traits/failing/whatevers, that is unacceptable.
If your post contains the words "you are", that is personal and unacceptable.
Kick the ball, not the other player.
* * * * * * * *
If somebody disagrees with you, that is not arrogance, and that is not bullying. It´s called a discussion.
You counter that with arguments, not with pretending you are being martyred.
* * * * * * * *
What happens on other forums falls outside our remit. Discuss it there, not here.
** * * * * * *
The moderators here are CC employed by non British legacy carriers.
We have no stake in this dispute, and our only aim is to provide a open, adult, intimidation- and brainwashing free environment for BA cabin crew to discuss the facts and the implications of their current situation.
Passengers have their own BA thread in the SLF forum and are welcome to participate there. Not here.
Pilots and other currently employed airline staff can contribute here, but only inasmuch as that furthers the exchange of information and the shaping of opinions.
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LTF
So if they re-ballot, they will gain another 12 weeks protection? Where will it end?
Bassa have been rather quiet about the 12 week rule. Apart from it being printed on our ballot paper, it certainly is not something out in the oper and very few crew seem to be talking about or even remotely concerned about where they're being led.
There has been no word from Bassa as to where they go after 12 June. I'm suprised it's members aren't getting a little twitchy by now.
Bassa have been rather quiet about the 12 week rule. Apart from it being printed on our ballot paper, it certainly is not something out in the oper and very few crew seem to be talking about or even remotely concerned about where they're being led.
There has been no word from Bassa as to where they go after 12 June. I'm suprised it's members aren't getting a little twitchy by now.
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There are alot of 'new' posters here who seem to be stating 'similar' viewpoints that;
Everything not so happy on the good ship BASSA?
- They are non-strikers
- FD have been showing them negative attitudes
- Pax have been showing them negative attitudes
- There was an absolutely fab 'can-do' spirit at work
- Non-striking CC regularly commented that FD were very supportive including walking people to their cars and;
- That all passengers who flew during the strike were extremely grateful to those CC who operated.
Everything not so happy on the good ship BASSA?
Get Smart,
If bassa re-ballot I understand that it will NOT enable a further 12 weeks of ptotection as the new ballot would be fundamentally connected to the existing strike mandate.
In life one of the most difficult decisions is 'when to walk away from an impossible situation'?
bassa have a history of 70s style rhetoric and an inability to negotiate at a level above primary playground spat level!!!!!
Over the years weak management has allowed that awful style to flourish, but this is the 21st century and times have changed - but bassa have not! They are still completely stuck in the 70s and have treated honest decent cabin crew like disposable items. This is, and has always, been about a fight between bassa reps and BA management over who RUNS the airline.
The vast majority of BA employees ae immensely angry with bassa, and the militant idiots at the heart of this dispute.
I have found the vast majority of crew (S/H at least) to still conduct themselves in a professional and courteous manner - no matter their side of the argument.
WW will not capitulate, even with this damaging 23 days of strike. He has been preparing for this moment. Strikers will not be able to hide over such a long period and the magic 12 June rapidly approaches which give WW even more legal scope!!!!!!
If bassa re-ballot I understand that it will NOT enable a further 12 weeks of ptotection as the new ballot would be fundamentally connected to the existing strike mandate.
In life one of the most difficult decisions is 'when to walk away from an impossible situation'?
bassa have a history of 70s style rhetoric and an inability to negotiate at a level above primary playground spat level!!!!!
Over the years weak management has allowed that awful style to flourish, but this is the 21st century and times have changed - but bassa have not! They are still completely stuck in the 70s and have treated honest decent cabin crew like disposable items. This is, and has always, been about a fight between bassa reps and BA management over who RUNS the airline.
The vast majority of BA employees ae immensely angry with bassa, and the militant idiots at the heart of this dispute.
I have found the vast majority of crew (S/H at least) to still conduct themselves in a professional and courteous manner - no matter their side of the argument.
WW will not capitulate, even with this damaging 23 days of strike. He has been preparing for this moment. Strikers will not be able to hide over such a long period and the magic 12 June rapidly approaches which give WW even more legal scope!!!!!!
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Demomonkey - interesting last post of yours. However, I don´t remember this bold romantic 'fab can do' atmosphere always referred to - it was business as usual to me as it should be, with good CRM and appreciative customers. Many cabin crew felt troubled, awkward and concerned about potential picket encounters. That was my experience and many others', I'm sure. Mind you, I have experienced some rather uncalled for negativity on here this AM!
Last edited by 24-06; 11th May 2010 at 11:50.
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Originally Posted by 24-06
However, I don´t remember this bold romantic 'fab can do' atmosphere
As the VCC weren't 747 trained at that point, I swapped from my 5 day 777 trip for a 9 day 747 trip, so that the VCC could be used on my original trip and I filled the gap on the 747 trip, along with two other CC.
Nine Days, operating two down, with only five sets of underwear - 'can do' !
I agree completely about worrying over picket encounters.
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24-06
I'm sure you did encounter some worried and concerned crew who came to work during the last wave of strikes, but I can honestly say, I didn't and whilst we always conduct ourselves with a 'can do' attitude, due to the extrodinary circumstances we were all faced with, the 'can-do attitude' and team spirit was ever more present than a normal working day. Like many others, I found it a far better atmosphere during the strike working with committed, like-minded people - cabin crew, pilots, ground staff and the entire operation at BA not to mention to very grateful passengers.
This time round, I think we will see an even greater determination to get through this dreadful next round of unnecessary strikes highly damaging to our business and only set to cause more pain than a positive outcome for anyone.
This time round, I think we will see an even greater determination to get through this dreadful next round of unnecessary strikes highly damaging to our business and only set to cause more pain than a positive outcome for anyone.
Last edited by Get Smart; 11th May 2010 at 12:23.
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Radio 5 Live with DH
It was interesting to listen to DH this morning. He is certainly a smooth operator and came across as being a moderate rep being attacked by BA.
This impression disappeared immediately after being challenged by a CC member on being somewhat economical with the truth. His composure went just as the programme was wound up. It's a pity Victoria Derbyshire did not bring on that CC member sooner.
He denied being given a job with Unite, but was smart enough to take his pension before the disciplinary process
This impression disappeared immediately after being challenged by a CC member on being somewhat economical with the truth. His composure went just as the programme was wound up. It's a pity Victoria Derbyshire did not bring on that CC member sooner.
He denied being given a job with Unite, but was smart enough to take his pension before the disciplinary process
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Ok, first Wiggy. Attempts have been made on this forum to give the impression that pilots hold cabin crew in contempt. Otherwise, why, on this very thread, do most of you say things like cabin crew only need to read exit signs, are lemmings, not to mention the SLOBS, amongst others, on the BALPA forums. I've read the BASSA ones, as I'm crew. I've heard directly about the BALPA ones, as my father is a pilot, and I've read the ones on here, as you should have done yourself. So if you don't agree with this, why do you deny it exists and not disown it? It's your choice, but then you really put yourself as sitting in the same barrel.
28L - I haven't stated it time and again. I only posted on this forum for the first time yesterday, and then I was addressing mainly other issues. If you want any credence, or for anyone to bother reading what you say instead of skipping to the next post in future, then get your facts straight and don't post nonsense.
If more than half of crew don't support the strike, and you don't start supporting us more, then the whole strike is going to be a shambles. How can we expect to work efficiently with flight crew and passengers who regard us as being guilty by association? Is this what we have to put up with when we come on board?
If you think that those of us who oppose have any influence over those who strike, then you should consider how your own attitude has failed to change by reading any of the things that we are saying to you. You obviously have your own minds and own opinions, and have become entrenched in those. So don't expect any change soon from my opinion being given to those who choose the picket line. We are dealing with this situation and trying to find a way to resolve it from our part. You'd all do better to work with us, and work where we can, than alienating your allies.
28L - I haven't stated it time and again. I only posted on this forum for the first time yesterday, and then I was addressing mainly other issues. If you want any credence, or for anyone to bother reading what you say instead of skipping to the next post in future, then get your facts straight and don't post nonsense.
If more than half of crew don't support the strike, and you don't start supporting us more, then the whole strike is going to be a shambles. How can we expect to work efficiently with flight crew and passengers who regard us as being guilty by association? Is this what we have to put up with when we come on board?
If you think that those of us who oppose have any influence over those who strike, then you should consider how your own attitude has failed to change by reading any of the things that we are saying to you. You obviously have your own minds and own opinions, and have become entrenched in those. So don't expect any change soon from my opinion being given to those who choose the picket line. We are dealing with this situation and trying to find a way to resolve it from our part. You'd all do better to work with us, and work where we can, than alienating your allies.
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Re-balloting
With regard to the question of Unite reballoting and starting the 12 weeks all over again. Below is the extract from TULRCA 1992, the law of the land on Indutrial Action.
'Calling of industrial action with support of ballot .
(1) Industrial action shall not be regarded as having the support of a ballot unless it is called by a specified person and the conditions specified below are satisfied. .
(2) A “specified person” means a person specified or of a description specified in the voting paper for the ballot in accordance with section 229
(3)
The conditions are that— .
(a) there must have been no call by the trade union to take part or continue to take part in industrial action to which the ballot relates, or any authorisation or endorsement by the union of any such industrial action, before the date of the ballot; .
(b) there must be a call for industrial action by a specified person, and industrial action to which it relates must take place, before the ballot ceases to be effective in accordance with section 234. .
(4) For the purposes of this section a call shall be taken to have been made by a trade union if it was authorised or endorsed by the union; and the provisions of section 20(2) to (4) apply for the purpose of determining whether a call, or industrial action, is to be taken to have been so authorised or endorsed. '
This is the link Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
Point 3a makes interesting reading.
'Calling of industrial action with support of ballot .
(1) Industrial action shall not be regarded as having the support of a ballot unless it is called by a specified person and the conditions specified below are satisfied. .
(2) A “specified person” means a person specified or of a description specified in the voting paper for the ballot in accordance with section 229
(3)
The conditions are that— .
(a) there must have been no call by the trade union to take part or continue to take part in industrial action to which the ballot relates, or any authorisation or endorsement by the union of any such industrial action, before the date of the ballot; .
(b) there must be a call for industrial action by a specified person, and industrial action to which it relates must take place, before the ballot ceases to be effective in accordance with section 234. .
(4) For the purposes of this section a call shall be taken to have been made by a trade union if it was authorised or endorsed by the union; and the provisions of section 20(2) to (4) apply for the purpose of determining whether a call, or industrial action, is to be taken to have been so authorised or endorsed. '
This is the link Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
Point 3a makes interesting reading.
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With regard to the Radio 5 Live interview with Duncan Holley, I thought he came across as totally balanced and very professional. When the 'crew member' spoke and said she belonged to PCCC I' like Duncan and many others' straight awat smelt a setup by BA...in fact could even smell the Latte as she spoke.
So well done to Duncan for giving the British public some true facts.
So well done to Duncan for giving the British public some true facts.
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I am no lawyer, but can this be read as, if BA can in anyway link any new ballot for strike action to the previous ballot, then more trips to the High Court may be in order with a possible hefty legal bill for Unite.
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Juan Odeboyse
I am genuinly not into getting into squabling matches on here and I have no desire to insult anyone, but are you not in the slightest bit concerned about what may happen after 12 weeks?
Sincere question.
I am genuinly not into getting into squabling matches on here and I have no desire to insult anyone, but are you not in the slightest bit concerned about what may happen after 12 weeks?
Sincere question.
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Posted by demomonkey
- There was an absolutely fab 'can-do' spirit at work
- Non-striking CC regularly commented that FD were very supportive including walking people to their cars and;
- That all passengers who flew during the strike were extremely grateful to those CC who operated.
The flight crew were, and are still very supportive to us non-strikers. I'm not sure what I would have done without their support, they have indeed been a saving grace during this difficult period. At times, they are the only ones at work, who will have a reasonable balanced conversation with you.
posted by gr8tballs of fire
It was interesting to listen to DH this morning. He is certainly a smooth operator and came across as being a moderate rep being attacked by BA.
This impression disappeared immediately after being challenged by a CC member on being somewhat economical with the truth. His composure went just as the programme was wound up. It's a pity Victoria Derbyshire did not bring on that CC member sooner.
It was interesting to listen to DH this morning. He is certainly a smooth operator and came across as being a moderate rep being attacked by BA.
This impression disappeared immediately after being challenged by a CC member on being somewhat economical with the truth. His composure went just as the programme was wound up. It's a pity Victoria Derbyshire did not bring on that CC member sooner.
On other forums and according to Juan Odeboyse, they are accusing her as being a management plant, interesting as I know the crew member personally. Very funny!
It's typical of the Bassa militants with their selective listening and it makes one wonder why we are in the state we are in now!
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal opinions and not of my employer.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 11th May 2010 at 13:26. Reason: Spelling!
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In reply to Demomonkey. A lot of us weren't working on strike days anyway. I came in from a trip on the first wave, and was on leave and moving house for the second.
I'm nervous about picket encounters,or just coming across striking crew on public transport. I've also had first hand reports of serious safety issues, and if I'm unlucky enough to be the ICC on the day, and have the double whammy of certain members of flight crew trawling some of their unhelpful attitude to us onboard, I'm not looking forward to it one little bit.
Emergencies are few and far between, but they are of concern. Please don't poo-poo this. I've only just joined this and other forums, as I want to know how it's going, how it's gone, and what to do. Other issues are also of concern, but banging on about who's happy in BASSA or not, is nothing to do with this.
And for the record, speaking to many friends and colleagues, no, things are not happy at BASSA. They've screwed up. Simple!
For the attention of some passengers posting on this that aren't aware of procedure or are assuming how it goes. The BASSA ballot was anonymous. The UNITE and BASSA reps decided on the strike dates and length. The latter was not voted on in that ballot or by any other means by the larger membership.
I'm nervous about picket encounters,or just coming across striking crew on public transport. I've also had first hand reports of serious safety issues, and if I'm unlucky enough to be the ICC on the day, and have the double whammy of certain members of flight crew trawling some of their unhelpful attitude to us onboard, I'm not looking forward to it one little bit.
Emergencies are few and far between, but they are of concern. Please don't poo-poo this. I've only just joined this and other forums, as I want to know how it's going, how it's gone, and what to do. Other issues are also of concern, but banging on about who's happy in BASSA or not, is nothing to do with this.
And for the record, speaking to many friends and colleagues, no, things are not happy at BASSA. They've screwed up. Simple!
For the attention of some passengers posting on this that aren't aware of procedure or are assuming how it goes. The BASSA ballot was anonymous. The UNITE and BASSA reps decided on the strike dates and length. The latter was not voted on in that ballot or by any other means by the larger membership.
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Very worrying.
We are in the financial doo doo, exacerbated now by unforseen costs on our routes across the pond due to the volcanic ash. Each affected flight is costing 10's of thousands more in fuel, flying time and nav charges due to the ash over the atlantic.
We are still having problems with certain European airports, a very,very fluid situation, not to mention of oil prices 'north bound', the uncertainty of our economy and many other factors.
A strike is absolutely the last thing we need. However, we have very dedicated profesional staff with matched determination that will help us lance this BASSA boil once and for all. I applaud all the cabin crew that will be ignoring these hot heads, I applaud the volunteers and all those that will go the extra mile to ensure that our passengers, those that ensure we have a roof over our head, food on the table, are able to travel on the dates of their choice to their intended destination.
You will not win BASSA...good will prevail over bad.
We are still having problems with certain European airports, a very,very fluid situation, not to mention of oil prices 'north bound', the uncertainty of our economy and many other factors.
A strike is absolutely the last thing we need. However, we have very dedicated profesional staff with matched determination that will help us lance this BASSA boil once and for all. I applaud all the cabin crew that will be ignoring these hot heads, I applaud the volunteers and all those that will go the extra mile to ensure that our passengers, those that ensure we have a roof over our head, food on the table, are able to travel on the dates of their choice to their intended destination.
You will not win BASSA...good will prevail over bad.
Bridchen
Otherwise, why, on this very thread, do most of you say things like cabin crew only need to read exit signs, are lemmings, not to mention the SLOBS, amongst others, on the BALPA forums.
As for the BALPA forum - did you read the SLOBS comment on the BALPA forum itself or on the BASSA website?
Personally I have yet to meet any BA pilot who holds the Cabin Crew in contempt, or anything similar, but a lot of pilots do have a very low opinion of the antics of the BASSA reps, myself included.
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The last paragraph makes interesting reading.
Being dismissed for taking part in protected industrial action
You will usually be protected against being dismissed for taking part in ‘protected industrial action’.
Industrial action will normally be protected industrial action if it is official action organised by your trade union in-line with the law. It will be organised in that way if:
the dispute is a trade dispute between workers and their own employer
a secret postal ballot has been held and the majority of members voting have supported the action
detailed notice about the action has been given to the employer at least seven days before it commences
it has been called for by someone in the trade union with proper authority
If you are dismissed for taking industrial action for 12 weeks or less (including a period of just a few hours or days), you will be able to make a claim for unfair dismissal and your dismissal will be unfair. This applies whether you are dismissed while taking part in the action or at any time after you stopped taking part.
When working out whether you have been taking part for 12 weeks or less any lock-out days (when your employer stops you from working) aren't counted.
Industrial action and trade unions Unfair dismissal
If you continue to take part in protected industrial action for more than 12 weeks your rights are different. If you are dismissed for taking part after the end of the 12 weeks your dismissal will only be unfair if, at the time of your dismissal, your employer has not followed reasonable steps to settle the dispute with the trade union.For example, it may be unfair for your employer to dismiss strikers if your employer has unreasonably refused a request by the trade union to involve a third party to conciliate (help agree) a settlement.
Being dismissed for taking part in protected industrial action
You will usually be protected against being dismissed for taking part in ‘protected industrial action’.
Industrial action will normally be protected industrial action if it is official action organised by your trade union in-line with the law. It will be organised in that way if:
the dispute is a trade dispute between workers and their own employer
a secret postal ballot has been held and the majority of members voting have supported the action
detailed notice about the action has been given to the employer at least seven days before it commences
it has been called for by someone in the trade union with proper authority
If you are dismissed for taking industrial action for 12 weeks or less (including a period of just a few hours or days), you will be able to make a claim for unfair dismissal and your dismissal will be unfair. This applies whether you are dismissed while taking part in the action or at any time after you stopped taking part.
When working out whether you have been taking part for 12 weeks or less any lock-out days (when your employer stops you from working) aren't counted.
Industrial action and trade unions Unfair dismissal
If you continue to take part in protected industrial action for more than 12 weeks your rights are different. If you are dismissed for taking part after the end of the 12 weeks your dismissal will only be unfair if, at the time of your dismissal, your employer has not followed reasonable steps to settle the dispute with the trade union.For example, it may be unfair for your employer to dismiss strikers if your employer has unreasonably refused a request by the trade union to involve a third party to conciliate (help agree) a settlement.