British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[28L]

Blue Riband

Blimey, if it's still going in 3 months surely Willie will have to sack the strikers.

After 14th April (4 weeks or so from the beginning of the strike) there will be no Staff Travel for the strikers. That's when it might become more interesting. How many commuters are there? How would they get to work, even on 'non-strike' days?

[ArthurScargill]

Nothing on the BBC website. That doesn't mean its not true however...

EDIT: Checked on newsnow and nothing on there either. Sounds like wishful thinking on someones behalf.

[Wing2009]

Reality of strike at BA: something you should know

Re: Nutjob account of strike breaking
I would like to thank you for offering a true account of what actually happened on the day of the strike.
It is also an eye opener to realise how much you take your job and the safety of passengers/crew seriously. As the 1st/2nd in command I would have expected you to be dismayed by the fact that a main crew was suddenly promoted to SCCM in these circumstances. The point of doing a Purser/CSD development course is that for most crew the responsibilities faced by the SCCM are alien to them. To be thrown in, in the middle of the strike or stressful situation, is truly appalling.
I have read some other comments on the site and would like to say my piece here:
BASSA is a union representing 12000 crew (or more) we have different needs and wants but BASSA is all of us not some ugly monster with a mind of its own.
The reason this strike is going on ? Greed and more greed.
I happened to believe in what is right and what should be law. The situation here: crew sign a legal agreement with BA. BA breaks the legal contract. Now some will say that a judge said complements are not contractual ... may I remind you that slavery was perfectly legal for centuries until war broke out in the colonies. BA is also trying to go around the law by setting up a new fleet to do away with these contracts it was more than happy to sign.
BA is not facing bankruptcy. It has over 1.5 billion of cash and still buying more aircrafts !!! The real problem in BA is its overcapacity, its focus on "profitable business segments" (which are not every crisis), its asset base going down the pan, its board members (balance the cost of fines with business decisions), price fixing-dirty tricks-hedging mistake, complacency, etc ...
Union: I am sure you won't have any issue with BALPA delivering to you holiday pay if it wins its Supreme court decision ???
You: are you kidding yourself ??? Walsh has attempted to address:overseas stations (done), Waterside (done), crew (ongoing), pension (done) ... flight crew (?????????) what do you think will be next ?
I have tried spelling it out for you since you are so blatantly miss the point.

[Jetlegs]

British Airways cabin crew member explains her decision not to strike and what the whole situation is like emotionally.

[AlphaFlower]

How many commuters are there? How would they get to work, even on 'non-strike' days?

That's the question WW wants them to ask themselves before they sacrifice themselves in the name of solidarity to their brothers and sisters in BASSA.

[ottergirl]

How many commuters are there?

A lot! Not only did we recruit heavily in Europe a few years back when we wanted crew with European languages; we also have little communities in NCE, BCN, AGP and AMS. I would guesstimate that maybe as many as 5% of cabin crew are 'non-dom'.

[Caribbean Boy]

Commuting crew

According to a Unite press release:

Nearly one third of crew depend on the travel assistance just to get to work. Crew who commute to Heathrow from former BA bases in places such as Glasgow and Manchester which the company closed - and at the time promised financial help for those now required to travel to their new place of work - are hit hardest by this latest attack from their employer.

[Caribbean Boy]

How Gordon Brown battled to the last to keep BA's planes in the air

How Gordon Brown battled to the last to keep BA's planes in the air | Business | The Guardian

[jetpack2]

Is it true that Unite/Bassa are now taking BA to court again, this time over Staff Travel being contractual?

Let me try to get this straight, if they win (I know it's unlikely but...) and it's decided to be contractual then income tax is charged as a benefit in kind on the full cost of the ticket.
So all staff, but especially commuters, will have to pay a large amount extra in tax for every ticket they use.

It's not enough that they have negotiated so poorly that they are the only group not to have reached an agreement with our employer, and that their members have therefore had a deal imposed, then lost so resoundingly in court when challenging that imposition, and then not waited to call a strike until their members could decide whether or not to accept a deal from the company which they later decide might have been good enough after all, they also want to muck up staff travel for the very commuters they are supposedly concerned about, as well as every other staff member of BA.

Unbelievable!

[swalesboy]

My Opinion for what it's worth is that Willie Walsh will let the strikes run until enough crew have gone back to work to run the majority of the operation. A lot of the the shorthaul routes will be permanantly given up. This will mean a requirement for CR which will be the die hard strikers who are still holding out. As long as nobody is employed to do their jobs for 3 months, no laws broken.

[im1234]

Commuting Crew

From BA press site

Book Flights, Hotels, Holidays, Car Rental with British Airways - BA.com
Media Briefing - British Airways Cabin Crew: Facts & Figures
Answer ID 7683
Date 12/12/2009
Release Date 12/12/2009 11.17 AM
Answer

More than a third of the airline's total workforce are cabin crew: about 13,500 people.

There are about 11,500 crew based at Heathrow. Roughly 9,000 of these operate long haul flights and the remainder short haul.

At Gatwick there are about 1,300 crew who operate both long and short haul flights.

About 700 crew are employed overseas at bases such as Hong Kong and Singapore. More than 1,500 UK-employed cabin crew (about one in nine) have their main home abroad. More than 800 crew live in France or Spain. Some live in Australia, the USA or South Africa.

[Mkat]

Hellsbrink - 12 week question

Under UK law, does the "12 week rule" apply under 12 weeks of CONTINUOUS industrial action or does 12 weeks of intermittent action (3 days here, 4 days there) mean that then an employer has the additional rights?

Answer: The 12 weeks starts from the first day in which industrial action is taken under the ballot in question - i.e. in this case the countdown started last Saturday.

[Runway vacated]

they also want to muck up staff travel for the very commuters they are supposedly concerned about

Oh, it's even better than that! If the courts decide that staff travel IS a "benefit in kind" and subject to tax then it will affect EVERY OTHER AIRLINE IN THE UK. This will effectively mean the end of such a "perk".

Talk about the law of unintended consequences!

[Doors To Manuel]

taxable benefits

Let me try to get this straight, if they win (I know it's unlikely but...) and it's decided to be contractual then income tax is charged as a benefit in kind on the full cost of the ticket.

Woa, hold on a minute....not necessarily so. I do happen to know quite a lot about this area as have been involved in past life with the issue of 'air miles' being a taxable benefit, being that they result in an employer spending money for an employees business travel and that employee benefitting with a 'free' flight. Yes, just like us, they pay the fees and taxes but the ticket is 'free'. It can even be discounted, like an ID90 when an Executive Club member elects pay 'part miles/part cash'.

The tricky part for the HMRC (govt tax office) is to put a fair market value on the benefit. The problem being that there is no commercial equivalent of staff travel. Like it or not, all staff tickets are true standby. Even 'firm' means you are only on until you might be off. So how much is it worth? Certainly less than the cheapest commercial ticket available. BA would argue strongly in defence of ST as it is one of the perks that attract people to the company and means in theory they can pay lower wages.
Don't underestimate the power of ST to a lower paid worker who has family on another continent. It is a huge part of their take out from the company.

So lets not get too excited about all this until/unless it happens.

[MrBunker]

I note that this is the "plan" for this weekend. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to interpret this as the agenda of a serious union, fighting a serious fight.

Bassa's plans for the weekend.

Saturday 27th Marchl - International support day

Picket duties for All-

Mariachi band and Spanish-themed food to celebrate support from

Iberia - if you are Spanish or just have a Spanish soul, or you wish to celebrate any other international culture or country - including of course the United Kingdom - bring your flag, national dish and or fancy dress. All are welcome welcome!

Sunday 28th March - Family day

Picket duties for All -

Family day- bouncy castle- face painting -ice creams- Kids, Dogs, Grandmas bring the lot, everyone welcome!

We hope to have activities for the young and not so young.

Hide the Plane; Guess the true Cost of the dispute and Easter egg hunt

Monday 29th March

Picket duties for All

We are hoping for an open top bus parade for everyone to get our message out to the world.

Tuesday 30th March

Picket duties for All -

Subject to permission - Coaches to Parliament and Thames boat trip lobby. Venue: Atlee Room, House of Commons -

Photo call outside Commons

[saintjoseph]

re the staff travel....
trains,ferries, london underground etc...
can, worms?

[13 please]

OverFlare

This is exactly what I thought, from the VERY BEGINNING!

WW is not going to budge!!

And I think whatever he has in mind for us,the strike has just brought this a hell of a lot closer... GRRRRR!

[jetpack2]

Hi Wing2009,
Thanks for the post which deserves a reply, so I'll try.
I agree that Bassa is meant to represent it's member's best interests but it doesn't seem to be doing it very well, especially when compared to all the other unions in BA who have managed to negotiate an agreement - none too palatable for any of us, but an agreement none the less.

The court judgement was the laws decision, and pretty darn clear if you read it straight from the source; I don't see where slavery comes into it.

The company is definitely at risk of going bankrupt, 1.5 bill sounds a lot, but the rate of loss is very high, and it's more a matter of getting a sound financial plan together so that the company can finance it's overall debt (like earning enough to cover the mortgage so they don't ask for the house back!). The planes coming in are old orders that already have financial agreements in place and couldn't be delayed (unlike the A380 which has been delayed). It's not greed, it really is survival.

I certainly don't agree with everything the company does or has done, but it seems to be more factual and correct in this dispute than Unite/Bassa, who have issued so many incorrect statements regarding so many different aspects (which can be checked through independent means) that it completely discredits the unions and their followers. And we're not being anti-cabin crew, we're very pro-cabin crew, and would support you and your union if only you were being led in a reasonable direction.
JP2

[OverFlare]

Ouch! I know I have a vested interest here but I think the customers are just relieved to be going anywhere this week. The euphoria will wear off if they are expected to shell out thousands of pounds for premium cabin tickets and never receive a hot meal! Ryan air could get away with 8 crew on a 777 and all one cabin but I doubt we could!

Ottergirl,

I'm sorry - I wasn't really being serious in my last post and I hope I didn't cause any upset! I really really doubt it will happen this way. For a start, I don't think WW will want to penalise the non-strikers, having seen them in action over the weekend.

Having said that I have no real idea - I'm not management and I'm just guessing.

One other comment re a different post - I took some legal advice about sacking strikers after 12 weeks. Apparently the company would need to show they have negotiated as much as they reasonably could do, but that is not to say that negotiations need to have taken place during the strike period itself.

So who knows what will happen.

OF

[OverFlare]

may I remind you that slavery was perfectly legal for centuries until war broke out in the colonies

You are having a blooming laugh aren't you?

May I remind you that BA have imposed the removal of one crew member from a flight. This in no way, shape or form compares to the suffering of slaves, or of all the other groups - holocaust victims, victims of apartheid in South Africa, American veterans to name but three - that UNITE has sought to appropriate during its frankly sordid campaign.

Even mentioning the comparison makes me feel slightly sick.

Edited to add: the wife says if you feel like a slave in your job perhaps you should think of looking for a different one. You will, no doubt, be pleased to hear that this is a perfectly legal option which is open to you and which many have tried successfully in the past.