British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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You seasoned observers with a memory will recall how we have previously been told at various times that this strike has been about;
But that is to overlook the fact that Mr Holley (like us all) is simply a bit player. Whether he stays, becomes a UNITE official or applies to be the next Pope is absolutely immaterial. None of us including Duncan Holley or Willie Walsh are indispensable. The key is the long-term success of BA as that is what will benefit us all the most.
Mr Holley forgot the cardinal rule that "if you're going to swim with sharks, don't bleed". He thought he was above the law and could quite happily create chaos for tens of thousands of passengers and jeopardise the careers of all his colleagues with free abandon. What he presided over has gone way beyond an employees legal right to withdraw labour, his leadership made the fight vindictive, divisive and personal but without an objective (except the implicit removal of WW by the Board).
With or without Duncan Holley, BA will survive. He has gone and that's it. Whilst I feel sorry that one of my colleagues has lost a career he probably deeply loved I cannot forgive him for his strategic mishandling and poor judgement throughout this debacle. Has anything his leadership attempted to achieve in the last 18 months actually improved the situation for his rank and file members? No. Many have lost pay, ST and are now likely to have to concede T&Cs worse than those originally tabled. I therefore can only conclude that BASSA members will be better off without this man as their head.
Over on other forums there maybe tears shed by and for Mr Holley, but in a few weeks time he will be yesterday's man. What is important however is that rank and file members get the union support they deserve. Success is not measured in rhetoric, bravado or intimidation it is measured in pay cheques and the atmosphere at work.
So please don't ask me to contribute to his leaving present. They'll be no mourning in this corner for a man who achieved nothing beneficial.
- Imposition
- New Fleet
- 'Just to send WW a message'
- To break BASSA
- Re-instatement of ST
But that is to overlook the fact that Mr Holley (like us all) is simply a bit player. Whether he stays, becomes a UNITE official or applies to be the next Pope is absolutely immaterial. None of us including Duncan Holley or Willie Walsh are indispensable. The key is the long-term success of BA as that is what will benefit us all the most.
Mr Holley forgot the cardinal rule that "if you're going to swim with sharks, don't bleed". He thought he was above the law and could quite happily create chaos for tens of thousands of passengers and jeopardise the careers of all his colleagues with free abandon. What he presided over has gone way beyond an employees legal right to withdraw labour, his leadership made the fight vindictive, divisive and personal but without an objective (except the implicit removal of WW by the Board).
With or without Duncan Holley, BA will survive. He has gone and that's it. Whilst I feel sorry that one of my colleagues has lost a career he probably deeply loved I cannot forgive him for his strategic mishandling and poor judgement throughout this debacle. Has anything his leadership attempted to achieve in the last 18 months actually improved the situation for his rank and file members? No. Many have lost pay, ST and are now likely to have to concede T&Cs worse than those originally tabled. I therefore can only conclude that BASSA members will be better off without this man as their head.
Over on other forums there maybe tears shed by and for Mr Holley, but in a few weeks time he will be yesterday's man. What is important however is that rank and file members get the union support they deserve. Success is not measured in rhetoric, bravado or intimidation it is measured in pay cheques and the atmosphere at work.
So please don't ask me to contribute to his leaving present. They'll be no mourning in this corner for a man who achieved nothing beneficial.
Last edited by demomonkey; 6th May 2010 at 23:09.
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It appears to be highly likely that this online ballot will lead to more IA. So what happens next? I'm sorry if that sounds like a stupid question but BA and BASSA appear to be at a stalemate with neither side seemingly willing or able to back down without losing all credibility and setting a precedent for the future. So what if we get to the 12th June with no resolution? Can BASSA legally call another Ballot on some other grounds? Or are BA likely to invoke SOSR before that happens?
BA have taken part in meaningful negotiations and even offered re instatement of staff travel.
Whether the company will take such drastic action is unclear but this can't go on forever and June is getting very close..
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Just heard on Sky that the proposal has been turned down.
We suspected that a great number of people had left BASSA which would suggest that proportionally more militants will probably have voted.
So, anyone with the numbers?
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The only real weapon that BASSA have left is strike action. This has already proven to be of limited use and has achieved loss of ST and allowances, oh and offers from BA that are ever reducing. So all that really remains to see is how united BASSA really are - do thay have the confidence to call a long strike to flush out those who do support them and those who just talk the talk.
What weapons BA still has available and is prepared to use remains a mystery but there are some big guns available - some made public and accepted as legal and legitimate by BASSA's own barrister.
Bad times ahead for our customers and ultimately for all the crew that have not been involved is this grotesque act of self mutilation by BASSA.
What weapons BA still has available and is prepared to use remains a mystery but there are some big guns available - some made public and accepted as legal and legitimate by BASSA's own barrister.
Bad times ahead for our customers and ultimately for all the crew that have not been involved is this grotesque act of self mutilation by BASSA.
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The Unite union said thousands had voted and there had been an 81% majority against the proposals offered against a 71% turnout.
From BBC website
From BBC website
Junior trash
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Actually, knowing BASSA's history of this sort of thing, they'll probably be interested to know themselves.....
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Actually, knowing BASSA's history of this sort of thing, they'll probably be interested to know themselves...
Unbelievable incompetence...how do they know the percentages, but not the numbers??
Unbelievable incompetence...how do they know the percentages, but not the numbers??
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They will know the percentage of those that voted, but not the percentage of members who voted to reject the offer. They are probably not really interested either as it would only show a reduced mandate - ie anyone who did not vote to reject would be counted as one who voted to accept - its in the way the question is asked.
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BA have already done the math
the rough figure of those cabin crew that voted to reject this deal is the same as those that decided to vote for strike action the last time round. We all saw the turn out on strike days.(BASSA own figures are 2000-3000 crew actually went on strike) This time the company are even better prepared for what BASSA have to throw at them.
Some cabin crew are still confusing 81% of cabin crew with 81% of BASSA members the two figures are very different.
As with the case back in November BASSA are unaware of the actual membership numbers until the company give the the list of payroll deductions sometime today.
the rough figure of those cabin crew that voted to reject this deal is the same as those that decided to vote for strike action the last time round. We all saw the turn out on strike days.(BASSA own figures are 2000-3000 crew actually went on strike) This time the company are even better prepared for what BASSA have to throw at them.Some cabin crew are still confusing 81% of cabin crew with 81% of BASSA members the two figures are very different.
As with the case back in November BASSA are unaware of the actual membership numbers until the company give the the list of payroll deductions sometime today.
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PP I think times have changes re knowing membership figures and this latest poll was as accurate as it can get. Amicus are now working closely with Bassa so it was a joint poll. Of course they know who voted yes and no, why not? Unlike the similar BA version at least one could decide which way to vote.
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What I find interesting is that BA have not countered this announcement with the numbers of cabin crew who took part in their own on-line ballot. I had suspected that the whole point of the ballot of non-union crew was to show that overall the majority of crew had voted to accept it - so maybe they didn't. Many people were put off by the BA ballot only having a 'YES' option.
It'll be a long weekend waiting for the next installment from UNITE.
It'll be a long weekend waiting for the next installment from UNITE.
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I am truly surprised that there are so many ignorant BA cabin crew out there voting again for strike action.
The latest deal is a good and fair one. Much better to have a monthly amount added to your salary than variable allowances.
And as for working with one less crew member, you already have one of the easiest jobs in the world. What's not to like? And if you don't like it, then buzz off and find employment more to your liking.
As for the withdrawal of your travel priveleges? You can't say you weren't warned!!
The latest deal is a good and fair one. Much better to have a monthly amount added to your salary than variable allowances.
And as for working with one less crew member, you already have one of the easiest jobs in the world. What's not to like? And if you don't like it, then buzz off and find employment more to your liking.
As for the withdrawal of your travel priveleges? You can't say you weren't warned!!
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I am truly surprised that there are so many ignorant BA cabin crew out there voting again for strike action.
That's because what BASSA says is gospel. So BASSA says 'jump over a cliff' then you must jump over a cliff!!!
What I don't understand is how the former Branch Secretary can still retain his position in BASSA. In my many years with BA, historically the role of the Branch Secretary has always been undertaken by current BA cabin crew.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal opinions and not my employer's.
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Juan Odeboyse
I do like the way you try and undermine the factual information I try to post
The information I posted regarding actual membership numbers is not some wild guess, it came from BASSA itself I have paraphrased it below just in case you are no longer a member
But lets think about it.......
BASSA have circa 10,000 members, it is more than likely less than this figure, but 10, 000 makes the math easier
7100 decided to vote on the online poll and 81% rejected the offer thats 5751 crew, almost the same amount who voted for strike action back in February.
BA have circa 13000 crew and 3400 VCC and temps combined, how effective do you think strike action will be?
My hope is that BASSA go for the 20 days as this should bring issues to a head fairly quickly However what cabin crew should be asking is how prepared are BASSA for June 12th when the company can sack all the strikers??
It seems no one wants to ask or answer that question.
PP I think times have changes re knowing membership figures and this latest poll was as accurate as it can get. Amicus are now working closely with Bassa so it was a joint poll.
I have paraphrased it below just in case you are no longer a member
This is because when informing BA of strike dates they have to by law inform the company how many crew will be asked to participate in the action. Those figures are obtained by the payroll deduction information that is provided on a monthly basis by the pay office
BASSA have circa 10,000 members, it is more than likely less than this figure, but 10, 000 makes the math easier
7100 decided to vote on the online poll and 81% rejected the offer thats 5751 crew, almost the same amount who voted for strike action back in February.
BA have circa 13000 crew and 3400 VCC and temps combined, how effective do you think strike action will be?
My hope is that BASSA go for the 20 days as this should bring issues to a head fairly quickly
However what cabin crew should be asking is how prepared are BASSA for June 12th when the company can sack all the strikers??It seems no one wants to ask or answer that question.
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Pornpants1
However what cabin crew should be asking is how prepared are BASSA for June 12th when the company can sack all the strikers??
It seems no one wants to ask or answer that question.
It seems no one wants to ask or answer that question.
The date you are on about is when the 12 week strike mandate expires -when the mandate expires there is no legal protection from striking - UNITE will then have to re-ballot to carry on with industrial action that is all that date means.
It is not a date when BA can just 'sack' the strikers - and we all know he can issue a 90 day notice whenever he wants - best you check on your 'factual' information