British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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An open question to all: what can resolution of this dispute possibly look like? How will we get ourselves out of this mess?
As I see it, there are two options. Unite will capitulate and agree to an offer from Willie Walsh which will recover all of the strike costs. The longer this goes on, the nearer that offer will be to New Fleet.
The other option is that Unite become increasingly sidelined. They will make a lot of noise but will be increasingly ignored by BA as new crew are recruited and the miltant striking crew become irrelevant. BA have proved so far that they can crew a significant part of their operation without the militants. Appreciably, it's not ideal but the longer it goes on, the more replacement crew can be recruited.
Sorry but Unite have blown it.
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BUG, something tells me we're not going to get an answer to your questions and thats because, as many here already suspect, they don't have answers. Believe me, I've been on the CF and BASSA forums and I've not seen one single compelling arguement for this strike. I have only seen insulting comments about strike-breakers and any other staff backing BA. Its alarming.
Keirhardie, welcome to the discussion but may I just add that anyone I've flown with are not hiding of the strikers. But there are some awful discussions by the die hards (and I'm not accusing you) regarding the workers. I am more than happy to stand proud of my decision but I don't appreciate been called names. Its unpleasant and its immature. Anyone who dares raise an unpopular question there is meet with aggression. Here, discussions are more debate worthy.
Furthermore, i can say that it was a nice atmosphere flying with workers over the last strike, but I didn't hear anyone disrespecting the strikers choice or speaking of them with the ill tone as reflected on the other side of the fence.
Keirhardie, welcome to the discussion but may I just add that anyone I've flown with are not hiding of the strikers. But there are some awful discussions by the die hards (and I'm not accusing you) regarding the workers. I am more than happy to stand proud of my decision but I don't appreciate been called names. Its unpleasant and its immature. Anyone who dares raise an unpopular question there is meet with aggression. Here, discussions are more debate worthy.
Furthermore, i can say that it was a nice atmosphere flying with workers over the last strike, but I didn't hear anyone disrespecting the strikers choice or speaking of them with the ill tone as reflected on the other side of the fence.
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I thought this shows an insight into the mind of a striker
Not really delusional at all.......
Another fabulous turnout at Bedfont FC and the picket lines on day 3 of our dispute.
Thoughts will now start to turn to whether any talks will take place over the next few days and what cost savings might be expected. As New Fleet seems to now be linked to any proposals, some crew have suggested that the crew who have reported at LHR in the last 3 days, rather than obeying the Unite call to stay away, should be first on to any New Fleet. This idea is not without its merits.
As a union we would have to protect these individuals’ pay and pensions. However as they obviously have no problem with complement reductions and condition changes, so New Fleet should not be a problem to them. Figures vary widely as to the number of crew that did turn up for work - if you "believe" BA’s figures then it is a 1000+. Allowing for at LEAST a 50% exaggeration, this would still enable BA to kick start New Fleet - assuming we reach a form of agreement on how and what work is transferred. With the increased productivity, this could generate savings of between £5 and £10 million per annum with no recruitment needed.
We are not saying this is any form of proposal, but when Unite are looking to balance figures, every idea should be looked at, and would BA reject £10 million of savings? It would be a delicious irony if the crew who ignored the strike call, accidentally helped resolve the dispute by achieving their own productivity savings, and ending up as the first on any New Fleet.
Thoughts will now start to turn to whether any talks will take place over the next few days and what cost savings might be expected. As New Fleet seems to now be linked to any proposals, some crew have suggested that the crew who have reported at LHR in the last 3 days, rather than obeying the Unite call to stay away, should be first on to any New Fleet. This idea is not without its merits.
As a union we would have to protect these individuals’ pay and pensions. However as they obviously have no problem with complement reductions and condition changes, so New Fleet should not be a problem to them. Figures vary widely as to the number of crew that did turn up for work - if you "believe" BA’s figures then it is a 1000+. Allowing for at LEAST a 50% exaggeration, this would still enable BA to kick start New Fleet - assuming we reach a form of agreement on how and what work is transferred. With the increased productivity, this could generate savings of between £5 and £10 million per annum with no recruitment needed.
We are not saying this is any form of proposal, but when Unite are looking to balance figures, every idea should be looked at, and would BA reject £10 million of savings? It would be a delicious irony if the crew who ignored the strike call, accidentally helped resolve the dispute by achieving their own productivity savings, and ending up as the first on any New Fleet.
Last edited by draglift; 24th Mar 2010 at 18:35.
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An open question to all: what can resolution of this dispute possibly look like? How will we get ourselves out of this mess?
The company is spinning that £7m per strike day is sustainable, and as someone else has pointed out it does allow them to concentrate on operating the profitable sectors as a priority, with the reduced costs of some idle planes and some idle crew. At this point they are winning the PR war and the City backing.
The strikers have nothing to gain by giving in yet. But sadly may have nothing additional to gain by staying out for another month or two. Their risk is the ultimate loss of a job if it comes to that.
The strike breakers having nothing to lose by continuing to report for duty, and their numbers are likely to increase not decline.
So?
This needs a radical proposal from one of the two sides, otherwise, as above I think it is stalemate for some while yet. And 'radical proposal' does not mean restating something that has been demanded in the past, but in a louder voice.
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Willie Walsh's employee forum
Here are some of the things which Willie Walsh said at today's employee forum at Waterside.
He reiterated that the contingency plans had been successful. Over the first two days, BA operated 273 or 78 per cent of its longhaul flights and 442 or 50 per cent of its shorthaul flights. Seat factors were 68 per cent in longhaul and 69 per cent in shorthaul.
The weekend started with 82,573 bookings but over the first two days BA carried 86,262 passengers due to late additional bookings. He highlighted the work done by the contact centres in dealing with bookings and passengers.
As BA had carried these passengers, the financial impact of the strike is estimated to be £7m a day for the three days, a much lower figure than forecast by analysts.
He did emphasise that BA, as a plc, must publish figures which are not misleading - unlike Unite.
He gave figures for cabin crew reports for Monday 22 March. These are for crew reporting for work, they do not include crew returning from trips.
Fleet Rostered Worked %
WW 1174 632 54
EF 600 386 64
LGW 246 237 96
Total 2020 1255 62
The figures for the other two strike days were similar.
Of the 1,000 volunteers, 300 were used.
The contingency plan for the next weekend includes:
LGW - full service
LCY - full service
LHR LH - 70% of flights
LHR SH - 55% of flights, 40% op by BA, the rest by 11 leased planes from six other airlines
Seats have been secured on over 60 other airlines.
There are more courses planned for cabin crew volunteers, and he would consider having volunteers on a permanent basis.
Striking cabin crew have lost on average five days' pay.
He confirmed that a communication had been sent to striking crew that their travel concessions will be removed permanently. This removal was due to a number of factors, including the announcement of the 12-day strike and the scenes at the Sandown meeting last December. He did not think it right that those who sought to damage BA should get a BA benefit.
He said that he had thought a lot about the permanent removal of staff travel, and had even considered balloting other BA employees on this.
He said that reinstatement of ST would not be part of future negotiations with Unite.
He said that the dispute is between BA and Unite and considers cabin crew to be misinformed. He said he was surprised to be told in CRC last weekend that some crew refused to read communications from Bill Francis and himself, and acknowledged that communication with CC was difficult.
On the last negotiations with Tony Woodley last week at the TUC, it wasn't BA's proposed pay that was the sticking point. Instead, it was about "Access to routes" but Woodley seemed unable to say what the problem was. By Friday, they seemed to have gone backward and he didn't know why they failed to come to an agreement.
He believes that BA's proposal was fair and would consider balloting crew on it. He does not intend to reduce the offer.
He said that it was not correct that crew would suffer a big pay cut. There would be a consolidation of several taxable allowances into a fixed monthly travel payment to provide increased security of earnings. These payments would be guaranteed. Some crew would lose, some would gain, but on average it would be fair.
He was asked by a CSD how non-striking crew could be kept apart from other crew at hotels. He said that it wasn't always possible, but there were managers at the hotels. Also, there had been few incidents at hotels.
He was asked whether BA would reward non-striking crew. He gave a lengthy answer, but I wasn't sure that he gave a firm commitment on this as he seemed to want to treat crew equally (except for those who lose ST).
He reiterated that the contingency plans had been successful. Over the first two days, BA operated 273 or 78 per cent of its longhaul flights and 442 or 50 per cent of its shorthaul flights. Seat factors were 68 per cent in longhaul and 69 per cent in shorthaul.
The weekend started with 82,573 bookings but over the first two days BA carried 86,262 passengers due to late additional bookings. He highlighted the work done by the contact centres in dealing with bookings and passengers.
As BA had carried these passengers, the financial impact of the strike is estimated to be £7m a day for the three days, a much lower figure than forecast by analysts.
He did emphasise that BA, as a plc, must publish figures which are not misleading - unlike Unite.
He gave figures for cabin crew reports for Monday 22 March. These are for crew reporting for work, they do not include crew returning from trips.
Fleet Rostered Worked %
WW 1174 632 54
EF 600 386 64
LGW 246 237 96
Total 2020 1255 62
The figures for the other two strike days were similar.
Of the 1,000 volunteers, 300 were used.
The contingency plan for the next weekend includes:
LGW - full service
LCY - full service
LHR LH - 70% of flights
LHR SH - 55% of flights, 40% op by BA, the rest by 11 leased planes from six other airlines
Seats have been secured on over 60 other airlines.
There are more courses planned for cabin crew volunteers, and he would consider having volunteers on a permanent basis.
Striking cabin crew have lost on average five days' pay.
He confirmed that a communication had been sent to striking crew that their travel concessions will be removed permanently. This removal was due to a number of factors, including the announcement of the 12-day strike and the scenes at the Sandown meeting last December. He did not think it right that those who sought to damage BA should get a BA benefit.
He said that he had thought a lot about the permanent removal of staff travel, and had even considered balloting other BA employees on this.
He said that reinstatement of ST would not be part of future negotiations with Unite.
He said that the dispute is between BA and Unite and considers cabin crew to be misinformed. He said he was surprised to be told in CRC last weekend that some crew refused to read communications from Bill Francis and himself, and acknowledged that communication with CC was difficult.
On the last negotiations with Tony Woodley last week at the TUC, it wasn't BA's proposed pay that was the sticking point. Instead, it was about "Access to routes" but Woodley seemed unable to say what the problem was. By Friday, they seemed to have gone backward and he didn't know why they failed to come to an agreement.
He believes that BA's proposal was fair and would consider balloting crew on it. He does not intend to reduce the offer.
He said that it was not correct that crew would suffer a big pay cut. There would be a consolidation of several taxable allowances into a fixed monthly travel payment to provide increased security of earnings. These payments would be guaranteed. Some crew would lose, some would gain, but on average it would be fair.
He was asked by a CSD how non-striking crew could be kept apart from other crew at hotels. He said that it wasn't always possible, but there were managers at the hotels. Also, there had been few incidents at hotels.
He was asked whether BA would reward non-striking crew. He gave a lengthy answer, but I wasn't sure that he gave a firm commitment on this as he seemed to want to treat crew equally (except for those who lose ST).
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Let me be absolutely clear. If I hear anybody on my crew bullying another crew member over the issue of working/strikng, they will be offloaded.
On a strike day, it is your choice to work/not work. Outside of this, you are at work normally. A go slow/work to rule is illegal industrial action and will be treated as such. Anybody not showing the professionalism to leave this on the ground is a safety risk on my aircraft, and that will not be tolerated.
The world at BA has changed. Things that have been tolerated for too long will no longer be. A phonecall to BASSA no longer have the same effect.
On a strike day, it is your choice to work/not work. Outside of this, you are at work normally. A go slow/work to rule is illegal industrial action and will be treated as such. Anybody not showing the professionalism to leave this on the ground is a safety risk on my aircraft, and that will not be tolerated.
The world at BA has changed. Things that have been tolerated for too long will no longer be. A phonecall to BASSA no longer have the same effect.
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many donuts and samosas!
Quite frankly, it is as ill-considered as every other BASSA ploy and move in this dispute.
For all the years of paying subscriptions to the union I would have expected a far better return than a lump of greasy, stale stodge.
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Let me be absolutely clear. If I hear anybody on my crew bullying another crew member over the issue of working/strikng, they will be offloaded.
On a strike day, it is your choice to work/not work. Outside of this, you are at work normally. A go slow/work to rule is illegal industrial action and will be treated as such. Anybody not showing the professionalism to leave this on the ground is a safety risk on my aircraft, and that will not be tolerated.
On a strike day, it is your choice to work/not work. Outside of this, you are at work normally. A go slow/work to rule is illegal industrial action and will be treated as such. Anybody not showing the professionalism to leave this on the ground is a safety risk on my aircraft, and that will not be tolerated.
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If you are 'backing ba' and you believe what you are doing is the right thing, what on earth do you have to hide?
So, to those of you making a decision based on fear, ask yourself exactly what there is to be afraid of. Decisions like this should be made solely on what you believe or know to be right. Striking over a principle is fine, just be sure it is your principle and not one thats been forced on you through fear.
In this case there is truly nothing to fear except fear itself.
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He said that the dispute is between BA and Unite and considers cabin crew to be misinformed. He said he was surprised to be told in CRC last weekend that some crew refused to read communications from Bill Francis and himself, and acknowledged that communication with CC was difficult.
Well done in posting as much of it as you could here.
In going forward perhaps it might be a good idea to re-open the ESS forum to enable better communication giving crew the opportunity to have Q&A from Willie Walsh himself. Incidentally, the reason the ESS forum was pulled down was as a result of the intimidation suffered by colleagues and it would work better if it was moderated like PPrune.
He was asked whether BA would reward non-striking crew. He gave a lengthy answer, but I wasn't sure that he gave a firm commitment on this as he seemed to want to treat crew equally (except for those who lose ST).
WW said that he was looking at a way of doing this if I remember rightly.
In saying that, the best way forward for all of us is to accept BA's original offer to save all our jobs.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 25th Mar 2010 at 10:05.
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Tiramsu
The Forum was pulled because it was being used as a tool to bash the company with (not just on this topic either). Nothing was discussed particularly positively or objectively and it was a really negative site to host on their own intranet.
To moderate a site like this on a subject as touchy as this then you would need at least one person working fulltime - its unlikely to happen.
For what its worth, i think it would be refreshing to have the Q&A session with WW but re-openning the forum wholesale would not be a good idea until tempers have settled a little IMHO.
To moderate a site like this on a subject as touchy as this then you would need at least one person working fulltime - its unlikely to happen.
For what its worth, i think it would be refreshing to have the Q&A session with WW but re-openning the forum wholesale would not be a good idea until tempers have settled a little IMHO.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Is that a threat?
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bacabincrew
I don't think you can regard HF's statement as a threat, unless you are considering bullying & harassing your fellow crew.
On my strike flight I was humbled by the courage of the crew I flew with, especially the CSD (who was a credit to the airline).
I made a promise to myself that I would not let them down on the post-strike flights I have coming up, I will protect them.
I stated in an earlier post that I would off-load with very little provocation, and I will - and pretty much every captain that I speak to feels the same way.
On my strike flight I was humbled by the courage of the crew I flew with, especially the CSD (who was a credit to the airline).
I made a promise to myself that I would not let them down on the post-strike flights I have coming up, I will protect them.
I stated in an earlier post that I would off-load with very little provocation, and I will - and pretty much every captain that I speak to feels the same way.
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I don't think its a threat by any means. The writer is just saying that BASSA is a busted flush. It held alot of power by having its members support 'to send Willie a message' but it abused it because BASSA leadership have a deranged and personal vendetta against one man not the promotion of their career, company or profession.
They sent Willie a message and he has sent his own back.
They sent Willie a message and he has sent his own back.