British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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HiFlyer14,
WW will reiterate that a strike will be damaging and urge cabin crew not to strike. The ones who will be isolated are those who strike as they will have little support from the rest of the BA employees.
WW will reiterate that a strike will be damaging and urge cabin crew not to strike. The ones who will be isolated are those who strike as they will have little support from the rest of the BA employees.
HiFlyer,
It is indeed strange that you feel isolated. In a company of over 30,000 employees I would suggest you are in the majority. You and your colleagues have bravely stood up for their beliefs. This is backed up with thousands of your non CC colleagues who are willing to re-train to support you and BA.
There has been some discussion about people worried about working through a strike as they will be victimised afterwards. It is worth considering that the militant minority want you to believe this will be the case. In fact, the militants will be isolated and few and far between and the company will continue with their vigorous application of anti-bullying legislation to ensure that any isolated occurences are stamped out.
You are not isolated, there are a huge,quiet army behind you who have right on their side - and they, and you, will win in the long run.
It is indeed strange that you feel isolated. In a company of over 30,000 employees I would suggest you are in the majority. You and your colleagues have bravely stood up for their beliefs. This is backed up with thousands of your non CC colleagues who are willing to re-train to support you and BA.
There has been some discussion about people worried about working through a strike as they will be victimised afterwards. It is worth considering that the militant minority want you to believe this will be the case. In fact, the militants will be isolated and few and far between and the company will continue with their vigorous application of anti-bullying legislation to ensure that any isolated occurences are stamped out.
You are not isolated, there are a huge,quiet army behind you who have right on their side - and they, and you, will win in the long run.
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Hiflyer/Tiramisu et al,
I think you can relax. My spidey senses tell me that WW has a message for "ABUSE STAIN" and the people that follow them like Moonies.
It will probably be a "they've caved" or a "strike and be damned" message.
So do not worry.
Peace and love,
Chico
I think you can relax. My spidey senses tell me that WW has a message for "ABUSE STAIN" and the people that follow them like Moonies.
It will probably be a "they've caved" or a "strike and be damned" message.
So do not worry.
Peace and love,
Chico
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Traffic Stats for February are released tomorrow with the original release time being moved to 12.30 - just as Walsh finishes his speech
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I'm just not sure how much longer the BA board is going to be happy to let BASSA drag their heels and allow the forward bookings to be decimated on a daily basis; BASSA have shown no real willingness to negotiate in good faith for the last year, I'm not sure I'd trust them to start now. (and I don't even think BASSA are aware of their poor starting position for these talks)
I think if I were CEO, I'd be giving them till Wednesday to agree a deal, and after that, make it quite clear that from then on, all losses in forward bookings were being added to the IFCE saving target. I would mail all crew individually and make them an offer, and let them know that BASSA continued to act as they are, new punitive contracts that clawed back the losses would be forthcoming.
In simple terms, to borrow an American phrase, BA need to tell BASSA to "sh*t or get off the pot" and if that doesn't work, just go around BASSA and cut a deal with the staff direct and see what BASSA have to say about it later.
BA can't be held to ransom like this.
I think if I were CEO, I'd be giving them till Wednesday to agree a deal, and after that, make it quite clear that from then on, all losses in forward bookings were being added to the IFCE saving target. I would mail all crew individually and make them an offer, and let them know that BASSA continued to act as they are, new punitive contracts that clawed back the losses would be forthcoming.
In simple terms, to borrow an American phrase, BA need to tell BASSA to "sh*t or get off the pot" and if that doesn't work, just go around BASSA and cut a deal with the staff direct and see what BASSA have to say about it later.
BA can't be held to ransom like this.
ON a serious note, i'm a little nervous myself for what might be announced tomorrow. I don't think its going to be a happy message. Thats for sure !!
[Oh and just to be clear - i'm not crew. I just have a niggling doubt that whatever message WW has to deliver, its not just going to affect the Cabin crew]
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Thanks everyone - the support on here is tremendous. I guess isolated is the wrong word and I should have said I'm feeling apprehensive. I must add that I am not apprehensive at all about working through a strike - will definitely be holding my head up high then and will be very proud to work alongside all the other volunteers.
No, the only thing that makes me apprehensive is that the longer this drags on, the more damage it does, and the more likely we as a community are to get something significant (new contracts?) imposed on us. Bassa forumites are even advocating just that - adopt a "keep them in the lurch" tactic.
And Chico - thanks for the peace and love. It's working - well, combined with the G&Ts it is!!
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
No, the only thing that makes me apprehensive is that the longer this drags on, the more damage it does, and the more likely we as a community are to get something significant (new contracts?) imposed on us. Bassa forumites are even advocating just that - adopt a "keep them in the lurch" tactic.
And Chico - thanks for the peace and love. It's working - well, combined with the G&Ts it is!!
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
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Mr. Scargill:
Regarding your comment:
And therein lies the rub. Nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING, regarding this situation involves "just" cabin crew. BASSA has failed to recognize this in their communications to their detriment.
While evoking absolutely reprehensible imagry these individuals, being paid by their members, lost the fact that they were also communicating with not only their members but Cabin Crews' co-workers, the people that haul the bags, check the luggage, schedule the flights, fly the darn planes, and the public who want to fly their airline of choice.
As a previous poster so aptly stated, this message may be one of "Do not let your guard down, we still have a threat in front of us and we need to be prepared." It may be something more, something less.
But in any event, this situation is absolutely about more than militant Cabin Crew.
That the CEO is addressing you may be a first, however it is not a negative for the BA workforce. It reveals engagement.
If BA doesn't announce an agreement tomorrow each and every BA employee should read this engagement as a sign of respect.
..and, as I've had two cocktails this evening, for the BASSA militants, if BA isn't coming forth with a concilitory message, if they are providing a message of continuing defensiveness towards BASSA's actions, I would advise you to look at BA's previous offerings, what your position is now, and consider the thoughtful commentary of a great U.K. philosopher, Eddie Izzard, and consider...
"Cake or Death".
Regarding your comment:
Oh and just to be clear - i'm not crew. I just have a niggling doubt that whatever message WW has to deliver, its not just going to affect the Cabin crew
While evoking absolutely reprehensible imagry these individuals, being paid by their members, lost the fact that they were also communicating with not only their members but Cabin Crews' co-workers, the people that haul the bags, check the luggage, schedule the flights, fly the darn planes, and the public who want to fly their airline of choice.
As a previous poster so aptly stated, this message may be one of "Do not let your guard down, we still have a threat in front of us and we need to be prepared." It may be something more, something less.
But in any event, this situation is absolutely about more than militant Cabin Crew.
That the CEO is addressing you may be a first, however it is not a negative for the BA workforce. It reveals engagement.
If BA doesn't announce an agreement tomorrow each and every BA employee should read this engagement as a sign of respect.
..and, as I've had two cocktails this evening, for the BASSA militants, if BA isn't coming forth with a concilitory message, if they are providing a message of continuing defensiveness towards BASSA's actions, I would advise you to look at BA's previous offerings, what your position is now, and consider the thoughtful commentary of a great U.K. philosopher, Eddie Izzard, and consider...
"Cake or Death".
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We don't want to strike but it's our only weapon, say BA crew - Times Online
"It is either this no-future scenario where we just lie down and accept our fate, where we will not have a job, or we strike and have a bit of negotiating power to discuss exactly what we are going to lose."
It is hard to imagine a worse means of trying to achieve that, than the route that has been taken. It's just so sad.
"It is either this no-future scenario where we just lie down and accept our fate, where we will not have a job, or we strike and have a bit of negotiating power to discuss exactly what we are going to lose."
It is hard to imagine a worse means of trying to achieve that, than the route that has been taken. It's just so sad.
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No doubt UNITE are trying to remind NuLab of the large donations they make (including recently).
And no doubt NuLab are BEGGING them not to go ahead with the disastrous PR exercise of a publicly reviled strike just before a General Election.
Talk about playing into the hands of the Tories.
One of the benefits of being a BASSA member for those that feel they "have to be in it to get protection".
You're supporting the Labour party, whether you vote for them or not.
And no doubt NuLab are BEGGING them not to go ahead with the disastrous PR exercise of a publicly reviled strike just before a General Election.
Talk about playing into the hands of the Tories.
One of the benefits of being a BASSA member for those that feel they "have to be in it to get protection".
You're supporting the Labour party, whether you vote for them or not.
BASSA members can and do 'opt' for non payments to the Labour party funds from their union payments.So not all BASSA members support labour
WTDWL.
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Juan Tugoh,
I am no legal eagle, but my understanding is that the judge ruled that the impositions were not contractual changes. The company has to negotiate everything regarding contractual changes, and the ruling only said that the changes BA implemented were not contractual, so BA didn't have to negotiate them if they are considered reasonable. That doesn't make IA illegal, they still have the legal right to challenge it through industrial action. For example, it's not illegal for a company to close down a factory and move the production elsewhere cheaper, but it is still the legal right of the employees to fight against that through strike.
I am no legal eagle, but my understanding is that the judge ruled that the impositions were not contractual changes. The company has to negotiate everything regarding contractual changes, and the ruling only said that the changes BA implemented were not contractual, so BA didn't have to negotiate them if they are considered reasonable. That doesn't make IA illegal, they still have the legal right to challenge it through industrial action. For example, it's not illegal for a company to close down a factory and move the production elsewhere cheaper, but it is still the legal right of the employees to fight against that through strike.
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The worst outcome I think would be a last minute deal between WW and BASSA.
He needs to let the strike go ahead, then destroy the union's leadership once and for all. Only then will people start to trust BA again.
That's the opinion of several frequent flyers from outside the industry that I've chatted to anyway.
As long as BASSA sit in the background with their finger still on the IA trigger, people will book elsewhere.
Let's hope it goes well for all the hardworking and conscientious crew members out there.
He needs to let the strike go ahead, then destroy the union's leadership once and for all. Only then will people start to trust BA again.
That's the opinion of several frequent flyers from outside the industry that I've chatted to anyway.
As long as BASSA sit in the background with their finger still on the IA trigger, people will book elsewhere.
Let's hope it goes well for all the hardworking and conscientious crew members out there.
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BASSA members can option for non payment of dues to the Labour Party?
Fine but the money still goes to BASSA and then in turn UNITE, so it falls within the umbrella of an organization membership of the which is not completely voluntary. UNITE probably regard Labour Party membership as being pretty right wing. Besides which, how many of those who subscribe to BASSA and take the non Labour option would rather direct their money went to the Trotskyites, or some other such suidical representation of the left wing bigotry which is just as bad as right wing bigotry except that the latter is more or less illegal and the other in Britian is tolerated with a jolly little chuckle? Which is probably how this great dispute was see at the first by the public until it began to make the implosions on holiday plans.
Fine but the money still goes to BASSA and then in turn UNITE, so it falls within the umbrella of an organization membership of the which is not completely voluntary. UNITE probably regard Labour Party membership as being pretty right wing. Besides which, how many of those who subscribe to BASSA and take the non Labour option would rather direct their money went to the Trotskyites, or some other such suidical representation of the left wing bigotry which is just as bad as right wing bigotry except that the latter is more or less illegal and the other in Britian is tolerated with a jolly little chuckle? Which is probably how this great dispute was see at the first by the public until it began to make the implosions on holiday plans.
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An interesting commentary from WalesOnline:
I know it's got big words in it, but could someone forward it to BASSA nonetheless?
Unite, the union representing cabin crew at BA, has not yet announced any dates for industrial action. Under industrial relations law, strike action will have to begin by March 22. The union also has to give a minimum of seven days’ notice, but has promised to avoid the Easter period when families will be going on holiday.
The uncertainty is causing considerable damage to British Airways because passengers are naturally wary of booking with an airline threatened by strike action. However, this is a fight in which BA cannot back down. It cannot compete with other airlines if costs of operation are greatly in excess of the rest of the industry.
If BA cabin crew want to restore excess manning of aircraft, there is only one way it can be paid for – through the ticket price. They should realise that in a world where passengers can turn to low-cost airlines for short-haul trips and other groups for long-haul journeys, an over-manned, high- cost airline isn’t sustainable.
The uncertainty is causing considerable damage to British Airways because passengers are naturally wary of booking with an airline threatened by strike action. However, this is a fight in which BA cannot back down. It cannot compete with other airlines if costs of operation are greatly in excess of the rest of the industry.
If BA cabin crew want to restore excess manning of aircraft, there is only one way it can be paid for – through the ticket price. They should realise that in a world where passengers can turn to low-cost airlines for short-haul trips and other groups for long-haul journeys, an over-manned, high- cost airline isn’t sustainable.
From the Times article and Papillon's link:
“It is either this no-future scenario where we just lie down and accept our fate, where we will not have a job, or we strike and have a bit of negotiating power to discuss exactly what we are going to lose."
Oh boy, ....BASSA/ Cabin Crew had negotiating power last Summer...they were in the position of being able to discuss what they were going to lose. But if you claim you are willing to negotiate you have to be willing to compromise.....
Anyone else see Simon Calder's comment (Independant newspaper ) about not needing rational thought to work for BA?
“It is either this no-future scenario where we just lie down and accept our fate, where we will not have a job, or we strike and have a bit of negotiating power to discuss exactly what we are going to lose."
Oh boy, ....BASSA/ Cabin Crew had negotiating power last Summer...they were in the position of being able to discuss what they were going to lose. But if you claim you are willing to negotiate you have to be willing to compromise.....
Anyone else see Simon Calder's comment (Independant newspaper ) about not needing rational thought to work for BA?
Political fund
Just so you know:
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/Uni...20May%2009.pdf
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/Uni...20May%2009.pdf
23.4 Any member of the Union may at any time give notice on the form of exemption notice specified in Clause (5) or by a written request in a form to the like effect, that he/she objects to contribute to the political fund.
23.5 The form of exemption notice shall be as follows:-
Unite the Union
POLITICAL FUND EXEMPTION NOTICE
I hereby give notice that I object to contributing to the political fund of
the Union and am in consequence exempt, in the manner provided by
Chapter VI of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act
1992, from contributing to that fund.
Signature................................................... .....................................................
Name........................................................ .......................................................
Address ............................................................ ..............................................
Name of Branch...................................................... .......................................
Membership No................................................ Date ...............................
23.7 On giving such notice, a member shall be exempt, so long as his/her notice is not
withdrawn, from contributing to the political fund of the Union as from either: (a) the first
day of January next after notice by the member is given, or, (b) in the case of a notice
given within one month after the notice given to members under Clause (3) or after the
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23.8 The Executive Council shall give effect to the exemption of members to contribute to
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payment of part of any periodical contributions required from the members of the Union
towards the expenses of the Union as provided and such relief shall be given as far as
possible to all members who are exempt on the occasion of the same periodical
payment.
23.5 The form of exemption notice shall be as follows:-
Unite the Union
POLITICAL FUND EXEMPTION NOTICE
I hereby give notice that I object to contributing to the political fund of
the Union and am in consequence exempt, in the manner provided by
Chapter VI of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act
1992, from contributing to that fund.
Signature................................................... .....................................................
Name........................................................ .......................................................
Address ............................................................ ..............................................
Name of Branch...................................................... .......................................
Membership No................................................ Date ...............................
23.7 On giving such notice, a member shall be exempt, so long as his/her notice is not
withdrawn, from contributing to the political fund of the Union as from either: (a) the first
day of January next after notice by the member is given, or, (b) in the case of a notice
given within one month after the notice given to members under Clause (3) or after the
date on which a new member admitted to the Union is supplied with a copy of these
rules under Clause (17), as from the date on which the member’s notice is given.
23.8 The Executive Council shall give effect to the exemption of members to contribute to
the political fund of the Union by relieving any members who are exempt from the
payment of part of any periodical contributions required from the members of the Union
towards the expenses of the Union as provided and such relief shall be given as far as
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Political Dimension
William Hague deputising for David Cameron at PMQ's today accused Unite of attempting to "wreck British Airways". This was directed at his opposite number, Harriet Harmon, wife of the Deputy General Secretary of Unite one Jack Dromy. The latter has just been fitted up with a safe seat to defend at the forthcoming general election. By way of background Unite is struggling to amalgamate Amicus and TGWU. The joint General Secretary's are standing down later this year making way for an election for THE General Secretary. A leading contender for the role is Len McCluskey, heard of him??? Dromy's role is also surplus thus a deal has been done between the Labour Party and its paymaster (Unite) to find him a safe seat.
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Dromy's role is also surplus thus a deal has been done between the Labour Party and its paymaster (Unite) to find him a safe seat.
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TruBlue:
I also watched that exchange.
Mr. Hague's comments were brutally effective and Ms. Harmon's response was weak in the extreme.
The one area that BASSA has excelled in during this adventure is isolating themselves and their members.
I'm sure that Labour leadership is not pleased with the present situation and BASSA's conduct opens doors of opportunity for their opponents should a strike occur.
I also watched that exchange.
Mr. Hague's comments were brutally effective and Ms. Harmon's response was weak in the extreme.
The one area that BASSA has excelled in during this adventure is isolating themselves and their members.
I'm sure that Labour leadership is not pleased with the present situation and BASSA's conduct opens doors of opportunity for their opponents should a strike occur.
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how long
'Some movement' in BA strike negotiations - Channel 4 News
How long can talks go on?
I don`t know what WW is saying today but the fact remains if he leaves BASSA intact the company and customers will NEVER be rid of strike uncertainty and being held to ransome periodically.
Perhaps he is waiting for BASSA to press the self destruct button.
How long can talks go on?
I don`t know what WW is saying today but the fact remains if he leaves BASSA intact the company and customers will NEVER be rid of strike uncertainty and being held to ransome periodically.
Perhaps he is waiting for BASSA to press the self destruct button.