British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[FlexSRS]

Originally Posted by WSWonker

i tend to think many pilots,trm's,ground staff are doing this vol work as they are only looking to protect massive pension pots not thinking about morals.

Perhaps you could explain the moral logic of militant cabin crew who would rather bring the airline down, and cause 30,000 other loyal BA employees to lose their jobs, rather than just work a tiny tiny bit harder on the aircraft, whilst still being paid more and working less than any other cabin crew in the uk?

[Tiramisu]

The strike ballot will define where BASSA are now. 75%+ yes after all of the company and media hype, means that it is the crew and crew alone that have made the statement. There will be no blaming of the BASSA reps at all.

Litebulbs,
Why not, Litebulbs? It is the Captain who leads his crew, the General who leads his army and so on.
The BASSA reps have a lot to lose in monetary terms, if they lose the confidence of their members. Their stance is one of refusal to negotiate, so how can the blame not rest with them?
Forgive me, but is that not UNION rep speak?

I'm BA cabin crew and the above represent my personal vies and not those of BA.

[winstonsmith]

Some crew have no idea what they are getting themselves into.

1. Some crew still thinking the ballot is about sending a message to management - to resume negotiations.

2. Some crew are scaring other crew by saying that they need to look at the bigger picture when voting - the ballot is about IMPOSITION only - nothing else.

3. What exactly will they gain from a strike? The savings won't go away - they still need to be done - and they will be a lot higher after a strike - all related costs will be added to the £142 million which IFCE needs to save - has BASSA said anything about this? Of course not.

4. Why didn't BA accept BASSA's proposal which was worth £52 million? Because it was not enough and claiming that BA's losses were £50 million less than estimated which would have almost done their savings doesn't work - why can't some crew understand that?

A strike will only have a negative outcome - nothing else. Think about the possibility of shorter time downroute and at base, New Fleet being set up and destinations moved over without MTP and that's when you will suffer financially - in one year these militant crew members will be wishing that they had accepted working a bit harder with one less crew member.

[DP.]

The strike ballot will define where BASSA are now. 75%+ yes after all of the company and media hype, means that it is the crew and crew alone that have made the statement. There will be no blaming of the BASSA reps at all.

This would be true if the union were providing its members with all relevant information in a clear, concise, and most importantly, reserved manner. It would seem apparent from the majority of the BA employees involved in this thread that all indications are that this is far from being the case in this situation.

Whilst ignorance of the issues is hardly an excuse, some of the union's behaviour throughout this matter has been completely disingenuous, and in the case of their missives directed at BALPA and the PCCC, contemptible. Some of what has been coming out from the top of BASSA in recent weeks would be more at home in a school playground, not a situation of this gravity.

I'm certain BA are going to take any kind of bullying and harassment, or related behaviours, extremely seriously over the next few weeks. The consequences of that for anyone involved are likely to be dire, and the supposed leaders are doing their members a severe disservice in planting the idea that such behaviour is acceptable.

[Litebulbs]

Tiramisu

Every individual union member has the opportunity to cast a vote in a secret ballot. Every person who can cast a vote knows that they could be "out the door" for 12 days and no more staff travel. That is a huge decision, but it is one that will be made without anybody bullying you - its secret.

If members are so disillusioned with BASSA and Unite, then they should be looking at the PCCC. Unite is a service that you pay for, a bit like a mobile phone company really and if they give bad service then look elsewhere, but do it in an organised manner. Just say 500 Unite members have left since the last ballot. If everyone else who is still a member votes the same, the turnout will be higher and the percentage will be too. But to be effective, the PCCC need to be a union, just to allow its officers the facility to carry out business, with legal backing.

There is one thing that I will say for BA, they are experts at driving a hard bargain. Mr Walsh is not there because he is inept, but his prime driver is the business, as it should be, so just take little steps when you back away from collective strength and enter into the realms of "effective consultation". If you are career BA, then you may not have experienced what this means with regard to changing terms and conditions.

[Tiramisu]

Every individual union member has the opportunity to cast a vote in a secret ballot. Every person who can cast a vote knows that they could be "out the door" for 12 days and no more staff travel. That is a huge decision, but it is one that will be made without anybody bullying you - its secret.

Litebulbs,
If only it as a secret as you say, or as it should be. Majority of my colleagues are going round asking each other which way they voted and following suit. Many of them are also waiting for the result of the ballot to decide by which time it will be too late to cast a vote.
So secret, sadly, it ain't. Furthermore it is through working with colleagues and seeing the propaganda littered by BASSA in our report centre, it's evident how they are influencing crew to vote yes. You only have to read other crew forums to see how they are being influenced in one way only. The bullying and intimidation should you have an alternative view, is appalling. The hate mail written by BASSA about our CEO is pretty disgusting, I picked something up yesterday evening. It's sad to see employees hate their employer to the extent at present, which I hold BASSA totally responsible for.
Some of the crew I work with have little understanding about what's at stake, all they know is about New Fleet and Imposition. It's hardly an informed decision, made with little understanding of Bill Francis emails, reading Cabin Crew News or any other literature that outlines the facts or even attending weekly Business Floorplate meetings giving them an opportunity to ask questions.

If members are so disillusioned with BASSA an Unite, then they should be looking at the PCCC. Unite is a service that you pay for, a bit like a mobile phone company really and if they give bad service then look elsewhere, but do it in an organised manner. Just say 500 Unite members have left since the last ballot. If everyone else who is still a member votes the same, the turnout will be higher and the percentage will be too. But to be effective, the PCCC need to be a union, just to allow its officers the facility to carry out business, with legal backing.

It's early days but the support and interest the PCCC has received has been overwhelming. Thank you for your advice, it is appreciated and will be passed on.

There is one thing that I will say for BA, they are experts at driving a hard bargain. Mr Walsh is not there because he is inept, but his prime driver is the business, as it should be, so just take little steps when you back away from collective strength and enter into the realms of "effective consultation". If you are career BA, then you will not know what that means to changing terms and conditions

As for changing terms and conditions some of our working practises are restrictive, but I won't go into that here (for the benefit of my colleagues, my reference is to Fixed Links, which I'm in favour of).
Strangely, I admire Willie Walsh as he is the first CEO who has the guts to do what he is doing at present.

I'm BA cabin crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.

[MAN777]

Just out of interest, how much of the BA fleet can LHR hold on the ground at the same time ? What will happen to all the non active aircraft should a strike go ahead.

Also if a strike is called again, what happens to the CC(that want to strike) if they are rostered to do a Far East trip (for example) a few days before ? Do they go knowing that they may get stranded in Japan !!

[Desertia]

Do not under estimate the power of Unite and other unions on the sideline we have only just begun to start cranking up the handle.

Do not underestimate the Labour Party's desperation to avoid the suicidal headlines of major industrial unrest in the run up to a general election - in which they are already in the 'also ran' category - led by one of their biggest donors.

[spin_doctor]

Down route during strike

Also if a strike is called again, what happens to the CC(that want to strike) if they are rostered to do a Far East trip (for example) a few days before ? Do they go knowing that they may get stranded in Japan !!

The usual plan is to report for work as normal down route, and only join the strike on arrival at LHR.

[cessnapete]

MAN777

Not much room at Lhr for parked a/c. In normal ops most of the fleet out of UK.
Plans to park grounded 75/767 & 747 at BA Cardiff and Filton(cheap fees).
More expense to be added to CC savings at end of any strike.

[spock33]

How will LGW be effected?

I understand that the main thrust of any IA will be against LHR but what is the likelihood that LGW longhaul will be effected?

[wascrew]

sick

Yes you can call sick downroute
Though what would be gained in the event of a strike is questionable.
In effect the crew will only be on strike when they return to their home base and possibly only when they are due to operate their next service and chose to strike then.
What is unclear to me though is when the staff travel will be withdrawn in the event of a yes vote and subsequent strike and who it will affect.
Will non strikers/no voters/volunteers be affected?

I predict/guess that many commuters , particularly from europe may well vote yes but continue to work as to loose their staff travel would effectively make their job impossible.

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by Watersidewonker

we are so ready to meet our new vol cabin crew

How are you going to do that? Since they'll be working and you'll be on strike......

[Snas]

In my view if YOU vote yes then YOU should strike. The ballot asked this question after all, "are YOU willing to take part in strike action?"

It did not ask if you were willing to vote yes then cower behind sickness or hope that you are not working anyway.

[cessnapete]

WASCREW

As in previous strikes, Staff Travel is withdrawn for all BA staff. ( Another reason the rest of BA are anti CC IA)
BA will want to maximise seats for 'real' passengers on the flights they manage to operate.
At the termination of any IA it will be reinstated for all staff except cc who went on strike.

[TopBunk]

cessnapete

I don't think that is actually correct. I believe that commuting crew (flight and cabin) retain commuting staff travel privileges during such periods.

[winstonsmith]

Only if the commuting crew have a Commuter Pass, isn't it?

[wiggy]

cessnapete

As in previous strikes, Staff Travel is withdrawn for all BA staff..... BA will want to maximise seats for 'real' passengers on the flights they manage to operate

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Strike or no Strike BA don't keep seats back for staff travel, they always want to maximise seats for 'real' passengers.

As for commuters retaining travel priviliges....with or without a "pass" there's still the practicalities of getting onto a flight......

[Flap62]

I think what he may be refering to is that staff travel will usually be embargoed for any period of IA so staff would not get on, even if there are seats available (with the caveat of commuting to and from duty being allowed).

[cessnapete]

Flap62

Correct, that was point I was making.